Hikers setting mousetraps at the shelters

[The Weasel]

Did Robert Burns ever write any poems when he wasn't drunk?

Burns (my kin, knae ye) drank but little. What ye Sassenach discern as 'drunk talk' is ha' the guid Laird meant men - Scots, that is - ta spake. Ye dinna wan' insult Rabbie to a Scot, mon. Not a bonnie idea.

Awa' wi ye. Begane. Off!



The Weasel

[taildragger]

Hey "double d"! There is a time a place for everything - and I know that Whiteblaze doesn't favor it's threads getting into the "political" category. If anyone wants to send me a private message about the subject - I will very definetely continue to defend the common sense position that there is a better way to deal with mice (and why this is more than a joke - it's a state of mind about how you treat the trail as a whole) Jokes aside - I didn't count on hikers being allergic to a green / anti-killing position - and taking the low and easy blows instead of offerering up something constructive. Does being told that one shouldn't just forget about "Leave No Trace" annoy some hikers so much that they come off sounding more like a dog-fighters or bear hunters than AT hikers? (I know you can be both - but it's a bit surprising!) I aint no green fanatic - trust me! Isn't there somewhere in the middle? I wish someone would have talked about wolf, elk and mountain lion "eradications" so that they were still AT locals. Wouldn't that be cool? Rattlesnakes get rarer evrery year - and don't be surprised if bear sightings don't get more scarce soon. Only the giles of the coyote seem to be standing up to our ways. Maybe this discussion would be better suited under the "delicate issues on the AT" forum? What do you think attrtoll? 'Nuff Said

Attachment 7582

Really? I think that you really do need to get out more, and as someone who has drawn bear tags before with the intent of hunting them on the ground with a bow, and someone who has been involved in all sorts of conservation that stems way beyond maintaining hiking trails I think that this is ridiculous.

As for killing the mice. They are considered vermin and there are generally no such regulations for them. State-to-state there may be a variation on the traps that can be used, but I've never seen someone before get so worked up about killing a mouse.

Do you plant your own garden? If not, then you cannot ensure that hundred of rodents aren't killed when plowing every year.

[kolokolo]

"Leave nothing but footprints, take nothing but pictures, kill nothing but time" is the creed - right?

I don't think that there is a Leave No Trace 'Creed'. It's not a religion, it's a set of guidelines.

Now UL hiking - THAT's a religion.

Seriously, though, I'm a believer in LNT, but I don't know who added the 'kill nothing but time' phrase. It's not mentioned in the 7 principles.

The problem is that people who are setting the mouse traps are not the ones who were careless about storing their food and cleaning up after themselves. The careless hikers came through weeks before, and caused a mouse population explosion. If the mouse population is large, then the mice will be even more desperate for food, and will be chewing through packs and equipment with no hesitation. I don't see any problem with hikers faced with a shelter full of mice due to someone else's negligence setting mouse traps.

Myself, I never sleep in shelters. But if I ever had to, I would not want to be totally at the mercy of the mice.

[rickb]

Anyone have a list of the animals we can kill in state and federal parks?

We have established its OK to kill mice (see the above post) but what else?

[rickb]

I have seen some hikers going for records of mice killed - and one actually went on to kill a ruffled grouse with his trekking pole and bragged about his "fresh turkey-like dinner".

The person who harvested this bird was probably mistaken with the ID.

Far more likely that he bagged a spruce grouse.

They are among the most tame of birds along the trail. Many a hiker has come within a few feet of one-- or even closer.

Unless it was protecting its chicks (and even then), the chances of getting within leki-kill distance of a ruffed grouse is far, far lower.

[weary]

if we stopped leaving crumbs everywhere, and stopped killing the snakes, would we have this problem?

The answer is No.

[weary]

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.....As for killing the mice. They are considered vermin and there are generally no ... regulations for them. State-to-state there may be a variation on the traps that can be used, but I've never seen someone before get so worked up about killing a mouse....

Very true tail. But remember, bears, mountain lions, wolves, snakes, Canada lynx .... were also once considered vermin.

[taildragger]

Very true tail. But remember, bears, mountain lions, wolves, snakes, Canada lynx .... were also once considered vermin.

True, but they are more of a vermin with respect to cattle barons, much like prairie dogs, and its easier for the average person to believe that his cattle is being killed by wolves and lions instead of coyotes and wild domesticated dogs (which by last report that I read, are far more likely to kill cattle, especially calves)

Also, with our agriculture, I see no near future shortage of mice, or careless hikers/people using shelters.

I do see a shortage of though.

[Tuckahoe]

The answer is No.

The answer is yes. The mere presence of humans means there will be mice.

[sylvia_claire]

Yep. If this guy kills a tick or mosquito, he's being a hypocrite.

that is BS and you know it (I assume that in this example the tick or misquito is actually biting you)

[weary]

The answer is yes. The mere presence of humans means there will be mice.

Are you suggesting that in the absence of our littering ways mice will start eating humans?

[taildragger]

Are you suggesting that in the absence of our littering ways mice will start eating humans?

Our grain, they're always after our grain

[Tuckahoe]

Our grain, they're always after our grain

BINGO! Mice mainly eat plant material. We dont have to be dirty littering clods to have mice, especially concidering the fact that the common house mouse (or many other types for that matter) seeks out and survives best in the presence of humans -- they just dont survive without humans. Just the simple fact that we plop down human shelters in the middle of nowhere, will mean there will be mice. Or better put -- No People, No Mice.

[XCskiNYC]

If the mice really bother you, jump on top of the picnic table and scream for help

[taildragger]

What if I were to hike with a large corn snake, would that be better than rat traps?

This is, of course, assuming that I'd sleep in a shelter, which i did do once, because it was built in a very rocky area in Arkansas, and it looked better than the rocks.

[MikenSalem]

Lets face it leave no trace was dead before it left the farm. You walk down a trail thats so heavily traveled it's cut into the ground. There's steps, rocks and retaining logs everywhere. Bridges and benches, cleared spaces just so you have a view. Privies and self composting crap smears blighting the woods. The silence is violated by drunken idiots who think they have the right to yell and scream. And every stick within two hundred yards of a shelter is scarfed for firewood by the air polluters. Now somebody is worried we might kill a mouse? NEWSFLASH there all going to die anyway and the sea won't rise or the globe get any hotter.
In all seriousness;
We started the mouse problem we should have the obligation to reduce the numbers to an ecological balance so they don't tax the shelter areas ability to sustain them in the off season. Better a swift death than to slowly starve and become aggressive toward the local bird populations nests. They are as bad as feral cats IMO. And rats have been documented to outright kill sleeping birds for food.

[Jim Adams]

Umm, ruffed grouse hunting is legal. Now if he killed it out of season or without a license go ahead and make a stink, but every year hunters take grouse and many other animals from the woods. Hunters have far more impact on animals than hikers taking grouse and killing mice.

Very true! Hunters assure a healthy population.

geek

[ChinMusic]

that is BS and you know it (I assume that in this example the tick or misquito is actually biting you)

All three can carry diseases that can kill you. I don't consider that BS. Do you? Really?

The fact is that human activity created the environment for the additional volume of mice. It is actually a LNT to kill them and bring their numbers down. It is akin to cleaning up after others.

[Hyway]

that is BS and you know it (I assume that in this example the tick or misquito is actually biting you)

If you cared about all creatures, big and small, you would use mosquito netting and insect repellent to prevent the little critters from accessing your bounty of blood. then they wouldn't end up at the end of your death slap.

[RGB]

This is ridiculous. Mice (parasites on the fleas on the mice) killed one-third of our population a few hundred years ago. It's time for revenge!

The Black Death II: Humans Strike Back