Gear weight vs. Safety

[Wolf - 23000]

Mags,

Eric Ryback also hiked the PCT in 1970, some 40 years ago. I'm sure he would want to use the modern gear. There is a lot of newer gear that came out in the last 40 years.

Personal I'm glad we haven't had any gear discussion. Gear is always something that is a personal choice. It goes hand and hand with the level of experience of the hiker which boils down to how safe a hiker is vs his/her gear weight.

As for Jardine, most hikers here didn't hike back then. Some of the old time hikers did but most did not or did so with limited experience. Of the hikers who did hike back then, even his fans will admit he wasn't the lightest weight hiker out there. I think we all agree, some of his advise was way off the deep end. To some he help save a couple of pounds; while others he actually cause to carry more weight. It a trade off. Someone who save some hikers a few pounds while causing others to carry more weight is not enough to give him credit for popularize the idea.

Wolf

[SGT Rock]

Mags,

Personal I'm glad we haven't had any gear discussion. Gear is always something that is a personal choice. It goes hand and hand with the level of experience of the hiker which boils down to how safe a hiker is vs his/her gear weight.

Wolf

The more I hike, the more I agree with this. Gear choices can be so personal that comparing one list to another is like comparing the 85 Bears to the 69 Jets to figure out which team was better. It really doesn't matter. It's nice to look at other gear and see what you might want to adopt and might not want to even try, but in the end there is more to backpacking than copying a gear list.

[Tipi Walter]

Here are a few relevant quotes from Eric Ryback on his 1969 AT Thruhike:

** "Later, when I was arranging my equipment and food, people came up and questioned me about my trip. This was the first real indication I had that I was doing something unusual; they were amazed that I was able to maintain myself in the mountains for over 2 and 1/2 weeks with just what was in my pack, plus water from mountain streams." RYBACK

** "Things in the main compartment(of the pack)got lost--small items, for example. The need for a small item would force me to remove 18 to 20 days' food supply to find it." RYBACK

** "Looking at that food was one of my greatest pleasures on the whole trip. It was the last package I would pick up before I finished my trek. I wondered how I would make all of the food fit into the pack. It was for 20 days, the largest supply I had picked up. With the experience of 1,600 miles behind me, the heavier the pack, the more secure I felt. I knew I could go into the woods and stay for as long as the food lasted before coming back to civilization again." ALL QUOTE ERIC RYBACK From "The Last Step" in "Hiking The Appalachian Trail, Vol Two, edited by James R. Hare.

The last quote is the one I find most interesting and can relate to. While "the heavier the pack, the more secure I felt" is not something that should be emulated by everyone, and a 100 pound pack does not equate to perfect security, still I can understand his meaning and how such a weight means staying out in the woods for a longer time before returning to a town.

Other than a restaurant meal in Fontana and a house overnighter with meals in Rabun County, Georgia, Ryback humped from Damascus all the way to Springer on his one load of food. I'd like to see a modern-day thruhiker do the same today, just to see if he can.

[SGT Rock]

Other than a restaurant meal in Fontana and a house overnighter with meals in Rabun County, Georgia, Ryback humped from Damascus all the way to Springer on his one load of food. I'd like to see a modern-day thruhiker do the same today, just to see if he can.

Couponus (sp?) tried that a year or two ago. Decided it was pretty dumb.

[colonel lingus]

It's like this for me -- I started heavy, cause thats the way it was done with the folks I learned from. I'm not talking axes and gourmet cooksets, but heavy tents and packs and bags built for durability with enough fuel and extra food to ride out a storm. That kind of heavy, not the foolish kind of heavy that includes a plastic mallet for tent stakes. (pulking not included). Then I got the Ray Jardine injection and got lighter and lighter until I did not have enough. (like floorless tarps in winter) (go to hell Doctor Ryan Jordan). The Oregon PCT section showed me the error in my ways. (2003 trail journal) But it was all good. I knew the pain and pleasure of heavy and light. That knowledge allowed me to strike a balance that I am happy and comfortable with. You must learn from your sufferings is my thought on the matter. Take too much and suffer on the trail, take too little and suffer in camp. Strike a balance between weight and comfort and your sufferings will equalize.

[10-K]

"It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it".

As opposed to "It's better to have it and not want it that to want it and not have it." I carrry a few "want it but don't need it" items but the list gets smaller the longer I hike.

A lot of this discussion is because people are mixing up wants and needs.

No one has suggested you shouldn't take equipment you need.

[Wolf - 23000]

Here are a few relevant quotes from Eric Ryback on his 1969 AT Thruhike:

** "Later, when I was arranging my equipment and food, people came up and questioned me about my trip. This was the first real indication I had that I was doing something unusual; they were amazed that I was able to maintain myself in the mountains for over 2 and 1/2 weeks with just what was in my pack, plus water from mountain streams." RYBACK

** "Things in the main compartment(of the pack)got lost--small items, for example. The need for a small item would force me to remove 18 to 20 days' food supply to find it." RYBACK

** "Looking at that food was one of my greatest pleasures on the whole trip. It was the last package I would pick up before I finished my trek. I wondered how I would make all of the food fit into the pack. It was for 20 days, the largest supply I had picked up. With the experience of 1,600 miles behind me, the heavier the pack, the more secure I felt. I knew I could go into the woods and stay for as long as the food lasted before coming back to civilization again." ALL QUOTE ERIC RYBACK From "The Last Step" in "Hiking The Appalachian Trail, Vol Two, edited by James R. Hare.

The last quote is the one I find most interesting and can relate to. While "the heavier the pack, the more secure I felt" is not something that should be emulated by everyone, and a 100 pound pack does not equate to perfect security, still I can understand his meaning and how such a weight means staying out in the woods for a longer time before returning to a town.

Other than a restaurant meal in Fontana and a house overnighter with meals in Rabun County, Georgia, Ryback humped from Damascus all the way to Springer on his one load of food. I'd like to see a modern-day thruhiker do the same today, just to see if he can.

Tipi Walter,

I wouldn't take to much of what Eric Ryback said to serious. He wrote a book on this "thru-hike" adventures that end up going to court when several people said he made up his adventures. Eric Ryback tried suing them but then dropped the his case after he learn several people who gave him several long rides showed up.

As for a modern-day thru-hiker doing Damascus to Springer, Mt. I'm sure it been done but why? If someone wants to test their manhood and see how much they can carry, I suggest join the Army.

Wolf

[neo]

gear is way lighter and safer.my zero degree down quilt wieghs 24oz
my heviest pack is 20 oz.my 11x10 tarp 19 oz,this is just a few neo

[Wolf - 23000]

gear is way lighter and safer.my zero degree down quilt wieghs 24oz
my heviest pack is 20 oz.my 11x10 tarp 19 oz,this is just a few neo

Neo,

I'm going to disagree with you that gear is safer. Lighter yes but safer no. You can have the best gear in the world or the cheapest, it all boils down to who is using it and how well they know their equipment. A hiker can have a 900-fill goose down sleeping bag, state of the art but it won't do him any good if it gets wet.

Wolf

[Tipi Walter]

Tipi Walter,

I wouldn't take to much of what Eric Ryback said to serious. He wrote a book on this "thru-hike" adventures that end up going to court when several people said he made up his adventures. Eric Ryback tried suing them but then dropped the his case after he learn several people who gave him several long rides showed up.

As for a modern-day thru-hiker doing Damascus to Springer, Mt. I'm sure it been done but why? If someone wants to test their manhood and see how much they can carry, I suggest join the Army.

Wolf

My point is not about testosterone posturing, it's about staying out in the woods longer and in towns less. Would you say the same "test their manhood" thing to ULers who punch out 30 mile days?

[SGT Rock]

My point is not about testosterone posturing, it's about staying out in the woods longer and in towns less. Would you say the same "test their manhood" thing to ULers who punch out 30 mile days?

I would say on the whole, that doing a 30 mile day probably isn't as hard as trying to carry 4 weeks of food from springer to Damascus and doing it without stopping.

And doing a 30 probably makes more sense if you are traveling light. You wouldn't even have to go fast. But to carry 4 weeks of food you would have to WANT to pass by stores for the opportunity to carry extra weight. You wouldn't actually stay in the woods any longer by carrying a ton of food on your back from the start, you will still walk through the same civilized places the other hikers go.

You keep saying it is to stay in the woods longer, but on a thru-hike, since you pass right by re-supply points, the only reason you would do this is you had some oddball idea to prove. Sort of like not drinking water for a week to see if you started by drinking enough before you started your hike. Cuponus (sp?) was trying to prove an oddball idea and realize quickly how stupid it was for a trail like the AT.

To STAY out longer, one would more likely do something like you do. Go camp out in the wilderness and do a "walk-about" with as much food as you can start with to avoid going out of the wilderness for another re-supply. Trying argue some into walk 400 miles without re-supply on the AT is like a basketball player getting onto a soccer guy for the low scores in his game compared to Basketball. They are different sports all together.

[Tipi Walter]

I just don't remember the AT going thru that many grocery stores without some kind of hitch or shuttle. Accordng to Tarlin, the only decent food selection on the trail without hitching or yellow blazing(between Springer and Davenport Gap) is at Neels Gap at the Walasi Yi center. After that there's the Hiawasse hitch and then the Franklin hitch and then the NOC which seems to not have a decent food supply. Fontana? The last time I was there the food supply was sketchy(and on a two mile roadwalk). And who wants to go to Gatlinburg and out of the Park?

So, does the AT pass right by the resupply points? Not really.

[SGT Rock]

Goes right through (literally through) Neels gap. Goes right past NOC. Goes right through the Fontana Dam area. Goes right past Curtis's place. Goes right through Hot Springs. It's practically in Uncle Johnny's Front yard. Goes right past Dennis Cove. Goes right through Damascus. That is a lot of civilization you will pass right through with everyone else on the trail. You won't avoid it by starting with 56 pounds of food.

Plenty of places where you don't go that far to get something or pass right by something. Do you really believe that a smart person would hike with 4 weeks food from Springer when 2.5 to 3 days away he will pass right thru a store. That is when Cuponos got it.

Someone doing that is doing it because they have something to prove. Someone hiking 30 miles in one day may just be hiking in a rain storm in the summer. Some of my longest days were when it was raining, and the only reason I stopped at the end of the day was I ran out of daylight.

[SGT Rock]

And you know, you keep bring this up about re-supply. But the whole thread was about gear weight = safety. Other than a possible argument about needing a bigger pack, the thought that you somehow need more gear to stay in the woods longer so you can avoid town seems sort of off the point of the idea.

If you hike in winter you probably are going to want heavier gear. If you are going to do like you do and spend a lot of time enjoying campsites and getting away from people you will probably want more luxuries and bomb proof gear. But if you are solo hiking a contiguous trail that goes through re-supply points about once a week and more hikers than you can hit with a dead cat, and you do it in the Spring/summer, you probably don't need a 4 person Hiderberg tent, 2 pound thermarest, and 0F down bag - no matter how much you want to get away from it all.

PS for Tipi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mz90jTFT6rc

Hope to see you out there next weekend man.

[Tipi Walter]

And you know, you keep bring this up about re-supply. But the whole thread was about gear weight = safety. Other than a possible argument about needing a bigger pack, the thought that you somehow need more gear to stay in the woods longer so you can avoid town seems sort of off the point of the idea.

If you hike in winter you probably are going to want heavier gear. If you are going to do like you do and spend a lot of time enjoying campsites and getting away from people you will probably want more luxuries and bomb proof gear. But if you are solo hiking a contiguous trail that goes through re-supply points about once a week and more hikers than you can hit with a dead cat, and you do it in the Spring/summer, you probably don't need a 4 person Hiderberg tent, 2 pound thermarest, and 0F down bag - no matter how much you want to get away from it all.

PS for Tipi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mz90jTFT6rc

Hope to see you out there next weekend man.

Thanks Rock for the Beatles. I forgot about that little song. It's a drag having dial-up but I watched the whole thing. Thanks for the thought.

You're wrong about the thermarest, it's 3.10lbs, not 2.

I'll be out there god willing and the creeks don't rise.

[SGT Rock]

Thanks Rock for the Beatles. I forgot about that little song. It's a drag having dial-up but I watched the whole thing. Thanks for the thought.

You're wrong about the thermarest, it's 3.10lbs, not 2.

I'll be out there god willing and the creeks don't rise.

Which way you coming in? If it is possible, could you come down from Farr Gap? I'd like to work that section, but don't want to walk all the way up if I don't need to. If you come that way you can let me know if there are any blow downs that need servicing.

If it is too much trouble then don't worry about it.

[Tipi Walter]

I am planning on the Stiffknee route as it's my favorite anyway, just gotta get to it from Flats Mountain. I'll give you a full report on the blowdowns. Everywhere else is pretty blowed out, let's hope the Stiffknee is kind to me.

[SGT Rock]

I am planning on the Stiffknee route as it's my favorite anyway, just gotta get to it from Flats Mountain. I'll give you a full report on the blowdowns. Everywhere else is pretty blowed out, let's hope the Stiffknee is kind to me.

I love that section. If it weren't so darn hard for me to do it, I would adopt it too. But since I've got some time I'll try and help that section out. If you have your digital camera, get me some pics of the blow downs so I know what I am hitting before I get there.

What sort of treats should I bring your partner?

[Tipi Walter]

He likes filet mignon but will settle for milk bones.

[JAK]

So now that high maintenance client of yours needs two sherpas.
Hope he pays well.