Rain Jacket vs. Rain poncho?

[jasonG]

Hey all, I'm new here. Im doing a JMT trip in aug and was trying to start buying gear now to i don't have to drop a bunch of cash before the trip.
I was wondering you thoughts on whether to bring a lightweight rain slicker or get a rain poncho similar to this one?

http://www.rei.com/product/743069

and for layers I was going to do a mid to heavy fleece jacket and fleece pants, hat, gloves.

I like the idea of the poncho cus it will cover my pack too.. that way i don't have to bring jacket and pack cover..
thx

[Colter]

and I think it's fair to say most people do. A rain jacket is better in windy conditions and provides more warmth. I don't use a pack cover at all. Like many, I use a trash compactor bag (or similar) inside my pack to protect my sleeping bag, clothes, etc. That way I don't have to stop to put on or take off my pack cover so I'm always prepared for rain. Back in the old days I had the bottom of my pack cover collect rain and wet the contents of the bottom of my pack.

[Tipi Walter]

Colter: "I don't use a pack cover at all."

Pack covers suk! Packs leak(you'd think after about a hundred years of pack technology that we could make a pack that is waterproof), pack covers don't work, and a pack liner can make life miserable on the day-in and day-out of gear packing. It's hard enough to pack up all my gear in the morning at 0F, now I try to imagine doing it inside a pack liner running all the way from the top of my pack down to the sleeping bag bottom. And do it w/o poking holes in it or deciding I need something near the bottom.

Poncho? Arg, if ya want to have something near-useless, get a poncho. It's too small to sleep under, it's too hot to walk in and bunches up, it flaps in the wind and it still lets in water. Here's what I'd like to see: A real pack cover designed for a pack: i.e. like a compactor bag that fits over the outside of the pack and has two slits with velcro to let the shoulder straps exit the back and runs down the back all the way. But this would still not stop all the water that flows behind the neck and into the pack.

The Packa? Well, for one thing it's way too small for my 7000 cu in pack, and for another, a pack cover needs to be stout and tough, almost like cordura, cuz blowdowns and briars will rip up a pack cover fast. Hasn't anybody snagged their pack cover on sawbriar or a sharp blowdown branch? For me, a pack cover is like a pair of socks, good for one season only. But Colter is probably right, a pack liner is the best solution. I just hate fiddling with pack stuffing and gear stowage.

[JustaTouron]

My daugher uses a poncho.

Hers is longer than the one in the picture (or she is shorter than the guy in the picture, probably both) it reaches down to below her knees. When it is raining she can wear long gaiters instead of rain pants and stay dry and have much more ventation than someone (such as me) who wears rain jacket and rain pants. Of course it also provides less warmth when it cold out, and it flaps some when it is windy.

The other thing she loves about her poncho is she can "pop a squat" and nobody can see anything they shouldn't. (Before getting the poncho she would go so far off the trail to hide she got lost a few times.) People always look at her funny when she pulls the thing out of her bag on sunny day, until they realize why, then they think it is a pretty clever solution. It also serves as a dressing room.

[Long feet]

Here is what I use and love:
http://sixmoondesigns.com/shop/shopexd.asp?id=45

It's a passable shelter, pack cover, and a fantastic poncho. I really love that there is tons of ventilation when one is walking in a light rain. Also, you get all of this for only 11 oz. But wait, there's more.... Dices, slices, juliennes....

[Mountain Wildman]

I ordered a Packa, I also have a 7000 cu. in. pack, I spoke with Eddie and he said he just got in some XL sized packas and if it doesn't fit my pack I could send it back and he will give me my money back.

[Tagless]

Tag-along and I each tried ponchos late in our 09 thru hike and found we didn't care for the concept at all. When winds picked up, and they often did, it blew all over the place. Our view of planting trekking pole tips was sometimes blocked and that was a concern navigating steep downhills. It seemed like a good idea at the time, but a poncho sure didn't work out for either one of us.

[Tagless]

I just noticed that the poncho you are looking at has sleeves which is a much better idea. Ours didn't.

[Dogwood]

Stop. Rewind. You are talking about rain gear for the JMT in Aug. Let's focus on that.

Generally, nice weather in Aug. actually, some of the fairest weather for a mountain range of that height in the entire U.S, if not the world. Chance of passing thundershowers w/ accompanying lightning during Aug, usually not lasting the whole day. It's not the rainy all day overcast drizzly east coast and it's not San Fran. On 7 previous Sierra hikes I have NEVER encountered an all day rain(not saying it's not possiblel, but IMO not likely). Usually coming in a fast moving front. Sometimes in a down pore and sometimes light drizzle. Sometimes the rain in the Sierras is falling less than a mile from where you are and you may not feel a drop! The rain may totally miss you. Possibly windy conditions any time of the yr, somewhat wide temp swings between daytime highs and nighttime lows and between the lowest JMT elev and the highest JMT elev. Low 80's - high 70's during the height of day into the low 40's maybe even dropping into the 30's at night in Aug.

While, I think a poncho, like you linked, on the JMT would work I can't see you having the greatest use for it. I'm with Colter, I would rather have a UL UL UL rain jacket that provides rain protection if needed but I could also wear for wind protection. Rain wear does not just have to be used for rain! Think of it as a multi functioning layer/slight insulation/shell. A jacket is also going to provide more warmth than a poncho/packa like you mention. IMO, unless you are also using the poncho for shelter too, the jacket provides greater versatility and utility. Line your pack w/ a liner(garbage bag).

I dare say if you are even considering a 7000 cubic inch pack on the JMT, YOU could DEFINITELY go with a smaller pack. It's not an expedition to a foreign country!

It doesn't rain that often on the JMT, even in Aug!

[Deadeye]

My choice is a windshirt and an umbrella, but I'm still experimenting. It rains a lot in VT, so I have ample "lab time"

[Helmuth.Fishmonger]

On 7 previous Sierra hikes I have NEVER encountered an all day rain(not saying it's not possiblel, but IMO not likely).

It happens rarely, but it happens. I don't advocate for heavy raingear, but I think it makes no sense to save a few ounces on a rain jacket and pants when you can use it as a thermal layer anyway. My approach is to bring light Goretex pants and jacket, and a pack cover so I can hike through most weather (I usually go in July, so you have more of the 4 hour storms than in August). When things get really bad, I just set up camp and wait it out inside. I'd rather run out of Clif bars than freeze my butt off.

That said, on my first two JMTs in July of '88 and '89 I barely ever saw a cloud. On the other hand, in mid July 2008, I thought my kids would die of hypothermia when we got plastered with hours of hail at 11,000 feet, followed by unrelenting rain after that, so much we had 6" of water in the tent bottom, which we had to pitch right on the switchbacks below Donohue Pass because our ponchos were completely inadequate. I broke my finger that day falling on the icy rocks as we moved down from the pass in the driving ice/snow/rain. Never going to forget how close we got to having a really bad day (it was the last time I trusted a poncho to do the job, and it was the first day I actually used one of these aluminum survival foils). Many others had really bad days in the Sierra during that "10-year-monsoonal event" on July 12 2008, and so did a lot of people in Owens Valley who had their homes washed away by the flash flooding that made it down from the crest into the valley. Mt. Whitney Fish Hatchery was completely destroyed, 19 homes in Independence wiped out, etc.

Bottom line - bring the appropriate gear for a bad day in a mountain range reaching to 14,000+ feet, even if you will never use it.

[boarstone]

Experiment w/both if possible befor you leave under the worst conditions you can expect. Everyone is different and so is fit/use/type/. Poncho can be cinched around waist w/belt, think compression strap w/buckle, etc. Pack will be removed everytime jacket needs to come off/readjusted. W/poncho, can stay one while pack removed, tent put up, pack thrown in tent, you next.

[take-a-knee]

On the AT, if it is warm enough to start hiking in shorts, you'd be better off with a poncho. A rain jacket will be much too warm. In cold weather you'd have to be brain dead to take a poncho. In between? Your guess is as good as mine.

[double d]

There are alot of options about the use of a poncho, but I do like mine (a campmor model, about $35-$40 range) and have found it works well in poor, rainy weather. But, two issues: 1. select a good poncho, because there are many badly made ones out in the market and 2.do a shake down hike to see if a poncho is for you. As for me, I really like using my Campmor poncho and used it last summer during a rainy period on the AT in Vermont (last mid-July). Good luck.

[JustaTouron]

On the AT, if it is warm enough to start hiking in shorts, you'd be better off with a poncho. A rain jacket will be much too warm.

If it is that hot what do you need either for. Just get wet.

I remember one day down in Florida it was about 95 degrees and it started to rain. Me and my wife foolishly reached for our unbrellas to stay dry. My kids were smarter, they changed into bathing suits to get wet.

[Dogwood]

Are posters not reading the original posters question in full? The OP is preparing for a JMT(John Muir Trail) hike and is trying to decide between rain jacket vs. poncho. That trail is in the Sierras in California, not Florida, not on the AT, and not Vermont. Quite a bit different than trails in any of those other areas. Different weather patterns.

Gear should address the conditions a hiker is most likely to experience and conform to one's hiking style and hike!

[take-a-knee]

Are posters not reading the original posters question in full? The OP is preparing for a JMT(John Muir Trail) hike and is trying to decide between rain jacket vs. poncho. That trail is in the Sierras in California, not Florida, not on the AT, and not Vermont. Quite a bit different than trails in any of those other areas. Different weather patterns.

Gear should address the conditions a hiker is most likely to experience and conform to one's hiking style and hike!

My bad. A poncho would suck in alpine conditions.

[double d]

Are posters not reading the original posters question in full? The OP is preparing for a JMT(John Muir Trail) hike and is trying to decide between rain jacket vs. poncho. That trail is in the Sierras in California, not Florida, not on the AT, and not Vermont. Quite a bit different than trails in any of those other areas. Different weather patterns.

Gear should address the conditions a hiker is most likely to experience and conform to one's hiking style and hike!

Good point.

[climber2377]

i dont think it matters where you hike, i ve used a poncho to cover myself and my pack. it can keep you dry from the rain, but you sweat like an animal in it. i think it is more trouble than it is worth. as others stated, it gets in the way, it floats in the wind and gets snagged on trees etc. unless you are self conscious and need a dressing room and a bathroom, leave the poncho at home.

[climber2377]

oh and i pack everything in zip locks in my pack that can get wet. and my sleeping bag is in a heavy plastic bag in my stuff sack.