setting the record straight on whitehouse landing camps

[Jester2000]

Before you say, you didn't have to stay, think again.

They intentionally set it up so that if you want food or resupply . . .

"Have to" equals "need," but "need" doesn't equal "want." If a person hasn't figured that out by Maine, they're even more confused than I am.

WHL is a fine camp that welcomes hikers. As far as I'm aware, no charges of kidnapping have ever been filed against the proprietors.

And suspicions about "mid season" price raising might be allayed if one investigated publishing deadlines before deciding to post here -- it's not the guidebooks that are misinformed.

As for WHL -- good burgers, nice people, enjoyed the boat ride.

[white_russian]

And by the way, that $39 per bight stay is a huge bargain compared to the $87 the AMC charges for hut stays in the Whites.

Apples and oranges, that is a full service AMC rate. If you want an apples to apples comparison the self service non member rate for a hut is $35.

[white_russian]

C'mon, it's not like these folks work together side by side or have dealings with each other on a regular basis. Who knows how this all played out through the 10+ year time frame and what, exactly, has been said. Apologized for breaking the rules? To whom would this be directed to and when would it have taken place? Not to mention what someone would apologize for. WHL ain't exactly right up the road from any meeting place and it's doubtful I would feel compelled to travel a fair distance to apologize for any actions involved with the issue here. The remedy here is to straighten it out and move on. If it's not that simple, then the public needs to know why. Am I missing something here?

Who to direct it to? MATC board

But they are in the middle of nowhere? WHL goes into town for supplies and they could easily drop off a letter at the post office.

[weary]

Who to direct it to? MATC board

But they are in the middle of nowhere? WHL goes into town for supplies and they could easily drop off a letter at the post office.

Just a thought: If WHL doesn't like its status relative to MATC, perhaps it should address the matter to MATC, not exclusively to White Blaze.

Weary

[white_russian]

WHL could be one of the best hostels on the trail with some help. I stayed there late last fall on my finish of THRU and was appauled by the amount of money it cost to be there. The books were incorrect on pricing, which made me think the pricing was raised mid season, or the books were misinformed.

Before you say, you didn't have to stay, think again.

They intentionally set it up so that if you want food or resupply, you almost have to stay in order to get any food.

That being said, it's set on a beautiful lake and the grounds are very nice. The pizza is delicious, I'd recommend that if you want to pay out over 80 dollars to stay including food, drinks, etc.

I had to pay 39 dollars for one night, nothing included. That's twice to three times what almost any other hostel on the trail.

The fact that the magazines in the bunkhouse were "Fortune 500" and "Yachting" made me realize the actual goal.

When I was there I just came in for lunch. Once they found out that we were not there to stay the night the super friendly facade dropped. 'Camp dad' got grumpy and then neglected our burgers. Immediately after we finished eating they made us leave. I hear you Saint, it is all about the money for them. Of course any business is really all about the money, but I think WHL actes in a shortsigheted manner by being bipolar with regards to the immediate profitability of their relationships.

[The_Saint]

Are the prices at WHL more expensive than at other A.T. hostels?

Yes, they are, but what Saint doesn't recognize is that this place is in the middle of nowhere.

I can think of all sorts of other Trail facilities that are minutes away from stores, supermarkets, Wal-Marts, etc. EVERYTHING at WHL has to brought from many miles away, and this is time-consuming and expensive; the reason you can get a Lipton dinner at a big Trail town supermarket for ninety-nine cents is because the chain buys them thousands at a time, gets a great deal on them, and has them delivered by truck. A tiny little place in the middle of nowhere buys Liptons a few dozen at a time, and has to send an employee away for hours at a time in order to go get them, using their own vehicle and at their own expense. What this means is that you're not gonna pay .99 for a Lipton out in the middle of nowhere; your cheeseburger's gonna cost more, your Ben and Jerry's will, and so on.

And if this is too much for some folks, well they can leave.

Oh, and the remark about divining what folks are all about based on the magazines they put out for their guests was simply snotty........the living room at Kincora Hostel is full of upscale magazines that are aimed at moneyed, well-heeled readers. Just because the room is full of Outside Magazines and National Geographics, does this mean Kincora is all about money?

Ridiculous.

Finally, Saint's remark about if you don't have to stay there, "think again"......well guess what? Plenty of folks DON'T stay there, for any number of reasons, some of which involve money and some of which don't.

Nobody is compelled to patronize any Trail business, but to voluntarily elect to do so, and to do so when one KNOWS what it's gonna cost, and then to publicly carp about the place later.......well sorry, this seems sort of childish to me.

You think a place is asking too much for goods and services?

Then don't patronize them.

This is not that difficult a concept.

What I don't realize is that they're in the middle of nowhere? Yeah, because I didn't walk 2200 miles last year along the entire East Coast. I don't care if you have 12k posts and have thru hiked the trail 20 times, which is just about impossible based on 12k posts. I walked the entire trail, so I think I have a good basis on their location. Maybe it's because I have background in purchasing/selling to know that I personally could provide a much better price to the consumers, but that's just me.

Your post about comparing them to Kincora is comical, because the difference is that Kincora asks for a 4 dollar donation for the entire stay, laundry, transport, etc. They demand 39 dollars just for a stay, nothing else included.

I'm not going to have an internet arguement about who's right or wrong, but I'm free to put up the facts, which is what people wanted. If people don't like the facts, then go watch MSNBC and get told what you want to hear.

[The_Saint]

And by the way, that $39 per bight stay is a huge bargain compared to the $87 the AMC charges for hut stays in the Whites.

You're correct unless you decide to do some work there and can stay for free I guess if I was a day hiker/muppet, I'd have to pay the 87 dollars.

[Pedaling Fool]

I’m not going to talk about the sign issue, b/c I just don’t know enough about the history or the rules. However, since the wilderness issue pops up here and there, I just want to say, That ship has sailed! And it has nothing to do with WHL.

.

...
Though, I'm not sure how over use of Gulf Hagas has much to do with the dispute over illegal WHL signs.

Weary

Weary, I said I was only addressing the "wilderness" issue. You're reading comprehension is...

...
But the so called "wilderness" outside of the narrow Gulf Hagas area remains about as wild as the trail gets. Were it my decision the 100-miles would revert to genuine wilderness. Somehow, no agency has ever given me such control.
Weary

As for this point, a big factor is that Maine is nearly 90% forested and a very low population of just over 1.3 million in an area of ~35,000 sq. miles, hell we got nearly that population here in Jacksonville in an area the size of just under 900 sq miles. And we still have a lot of open land.

Not taking anything away from MATC, but those facts makes it easy to have the most wilderness section of the AT.

[Panzer1]

When I was there I just came in for lunch. Once they found out that we were not there to stay the night the super friendly facade dropped. 'Camp dad' got grumpy and then neglected our burgers. Immediately after we finished eating they made us leave. I hear you Saint, it is all about the money for them. Of course any business is really all about the money, but I think WHL actes in a shortsigheted manner by being bipolar with regards to the immediate profitability of their relationships.

well how feasible do you think it would be to pack all the food you need to get through the 100 mile wilderness without stopping at WHL. Maybe more hikers should consider that option.

Panzer

[Mags]

well how feasible do you think it would be to pack all the food you need to get through the 100 mile wilderness without stopping at WHL. Maybe more hikers should consider that option.

Panzer

Very feasible. It is what most hikers used to do up until about 10 yrs ago.


Many AT hikers are up to 15-20 MPD by the time they hit Maine going NoBo. That's ~7 days of food. A little heavy, but not too bad.

If you are one of those odd people who like walking all day with a lighter pack (who me? ), that's only 4-5 days of food.

This is not exactly a difficult logistic challenge either way.

Now, if you hike ~10 MPD, it does become more difficult....

ps. For any PCT veterans, does this discussion vaguely remind you of the whole VVR 'discussion' that crops up every now and then? (Remote hunting/fishing camp accessed by a boat ride with prices that reflect the challenges of stocking up a remote/not easily accessible (and seasonal) place?)

[Jack Tarlin]

Saint:

While I believe you may have a background in purchasing and selling, I also believe you missed a crucial lesson in this regard:

If one isn't interested in purchasing in what someone else is selling, then there's a simple expedient: Don't purchase it.

The fact that your extensive background in business practices would have enabled you to provide a better price to consumers is irrelevant. You knew what the prices were at this establishment, you asked these people to provide you with these goods and services, and you paid what they asked ......and now, months later, you're bitching about it. It's unseemly.

Oh, and your use of the word "demanded" is a bit over the top. When I go to my local coffee shop, my cup of French Roast costs me $2.15 plus tax. I know this before I order it. Down the street, my New York Times costs two dollars. A Snickers bar costs me ninety-nine cents. At Five-Olde, the beer I like is three bucks. None of these places "demand" this money, Saint. This is simply what they charge for these particular goods, and there's no secret about it. If I think I can get these things elsewhere at better prices, I'm more than welcome to go do so.

WHL, like any other place, charges specific amounts for specific goods and services. If you didn't want to pay for these things, then as others have noted, you could have moved on. But nobody "demanded" anything from you; they merely told you what specific things cost and gave you the choice of accepting the proposition or resisting it. You accepted it, no? Truly, if you're unhappy with this transaction, then it's not the seller's fault, it's the buyer's. Nobody "demanded" your presence there.

[Blue Jay]

Maybe it's because I have background in purchasing/selling to know that I personally could provide a much better price to the consumers, but that's just me.

This is the same argument Goldman Sachs and AIG used to destroy us. It does not help your credability.

[Tin Man]

You're correct unless you decide to do some work there and can stay for free I guess if I was a day hiker/muppet, I'd have to pay the 87 dollars.

your incessant whining is very telling

[The_Saint]

This is the same argument Goldman Sachs and AIG used to destroy us. It does not help your credability.

Alright, cool.

Basic principles on purchasing. Buy at a lower price, offer your customers a more affordable price and sell more product. Is that simple enough for you?

I notice all the people with lots of posts gaining up on the people with smaller post counts. Interesting fact to observe. Since we aren't on here all day posting, we aren't credible sources, is that thing ticket? If I was Lone Wolf, Jack Tarlin, or any of the other guys with thousands of posts, would you believe me then? I like the Elitism that infected this site. It's interesting to see the way people on HF and BPL view the people on here. I used to not see it, but now understand between this thread and my previous FS thread.

Why can't people give their experiences and feelings about their visit there? Someone asked for it, so we should be able to tell about our experiences. If you don't agree, then just say what you're experience was there. Don't be Keith Olbermann and instead of talk about the news, you bash on the other people reporting the news. People trying to discredit other people's feelings won't work. This isn't a math problem where there's one clear answer.

[Tin Man]

[Jack Tarlin]

Saint:

Please try and lighten up.

Nobody's "bashing" you here, they're merely disagreeing with you.

However, your repeated slams at WHL could certainly be viewed as "bashing," no?

And the fact that some of your critics are frequent posters here is irrelevant. I'm sure there are people who disagree with you who do NOT have thousands or even hundreds of posts here on WB.

Oh, and your comment about folks who are here all day posting was also over the top and out of line. I just walked around 230 miles from Springer and have spent very little time on the computer in recent weeks. How much hiking have YOU done recently as opposed to spending time on the computer?

For a guy who's complaining about getting bashed or getting ganged up on, Saint, you sure manage to do your own share of complaining about other folks.

Lastly, you mentioned that you seem to enjoy other Trail Forums more than this one, and you're certainly welcome to spend your time at the places you feel better about.

Just as you had the opportunity to patronize and spend time at WHL, or you could have chosen to spend your time elsewhere.

Get it now?

[earlyriser26]

Basic principles of purchasing? Lower the price and sell more? I think the idea of any business is not to "sell more" but to maximize profit. Maybe Starbucks could sell more at 50 cents, but they would earn less. I will be hiking by WHL in the fall and may or maynot stop by, but I still have a free will. Any service that is available to hikers is a good service. You have a choice.

[TD55]

And also.......that place where the sign should be and isn't is the exact same spot that is missing the blue blaze spot to indicate a trail leading to a water source which happans to be a lake where you can soak your feet and/or swim without going to the other side of the lake to visit the camp. Even if there isn't a road sign, there should be a blue blaze water source sign there.

[The_Saint]

Good luck guys. I merely am pointing out my experience there as other people have and of course, the regulars all go against the new people. It makes no difference to me. I just don't understand why someone can't say how he feels about a place and not have people bash him for his experience.

I hike pretty regularly Jack, infact, I probably get out about 30 miles a week on a regular basis. I wasn't picking on you directly, just pointing out that you had a high post count. Besides, comparing my post count to yours isn't relevant as I have 113 posts and you have over 12,000.

I hope your stay goes better at WHL then mine did to the future potential customers.

[TD55]

Oh ya, one more thing since ya all are argueing about market prices and how to operate a business and all that crapola, a little clue as to why you shouldn't talk about stuff you don't know anything about. In order to get to the camp the camp has to send a boat across the lake to pick you up and than has to return you to the other side.