WhiteBlaze Pages 2024
A Complete Appalachian Trail Guidebook.
AVAILABLE NOW. $4 for interactive PDF(smartphone version)
Read more here WhiteBlaze Pages Store

Page 18 of 20 FirstFirst ... 8 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 LastLast
Results 341 to 360 of 400
  1. #341
    Registered User weary's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-15-2003
    Location
    Phippsburg, Maine, United States
    Posts
    10,115
    Journal Entries
    1

    Default

    Just a thought: The quality of the service is beside the point. Camp Mom complained about discrimination from MATC. I've yet to hear one word of fact that supports that claim -- a lot of supposition, yes. A lot of non related chatter, yes. But absolutely nothing of a factual nature.

    We've heard complaints about MATC being inconsistent. Probably we are at times. We are just a bunch of volunteers who spend our time working on the trail, not arguing about subtle matters of national park regulations.

    But most of us on the executive committee know the broard outlines of what is allowed, and what people need to do to gain a favorable recommendation from MATC to those that eventually make such decisions.

    The fact is that unlike AMC, Baxter Park, and others over the years, WHL has yet to apply for anything. They have been notified about violations of the federal regulations as we understand them. They have at times denied posting signs. At times WHL has claimed others must keep posting the business signs that MATC maintainers have removed.

    Whatever. Eventually, we notified NPS enforcers. They showed, up and as far as I know no maintainer has since complained of WHL violations.

    These are business people. Pretty good business people judging from the many that have praised their facilities and service. But that does not relieve them of the responsibility to act responsibly when dealing with land and facilities they do not own and have no special rights to.

    Weary

  2. #342
    Registered User Skidsteer's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-25-2005
    Location
    Skitt's Mountain, GA
    Posts
    7,945
    Images
    361

    Default

    How many tote roads are in the 100 mile wilderness? How many are signed? How many are not signed?
    Skids

    Insanity: Asking about inseams over and over again and expecting different results.
    Albert Einstein, (attributed)

  3. #343

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by weary View Post
    Just a thought: The quality of the service is beside the point. Camp Mom complained about discrimination from MATC. I've yet to hear one word of fact that supports that claim -- a lot of supposition, yes. A lot of non related chatter, yes. But absolutely nothing of a factual nature.

    We've heard complaints about MATC being inconsistent. Probably we are at times. We are just a bunch of volunteers who spend our time working on the trail, not arguing about subtle matters of national park regulations.


    But most of us on the executive committee know the broard outlines of what is allowed, and what people need to do to gain a favorable recommendation from MATC to those that eventually make such decisions.

    The fact is that unlike AMC, Baxter Park, and others over the years, WHL has yet to apply for anything. They have been notified about violations of the federal regulations as we understand them. They have at times denied posting signs. At times WHL has claimed others must keep posting the business signs that MATC maintainers have removed.

    Whatever. Eventually, we notified NPS enforcers. They showed, up and as far as I know no maintainer has since complained of WHL violations.

    These are business people. Pretty good business people judging from the many that have praised their facilities and service. But that does not relieve them of the responsibility to act responsibly when dealing with land and facilities they do not own and have no special rights to.

    Weary
    bunch a volunteers is not the term i'd use.

  4. #344

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by earlyriser26 View Post
    Walmart, as all businesses, are profit optimizers (not just looking for a larger number of transactions). WHL seems to be employing the proper strategy to maximize profit. It is not a charity. I don't know where you recieved your business / accounting / finance degree from, but your economic argument is flawed.
    seriously flawed...

  5. #345
    1,630 miles and counting earlyriser26's Avatar
    Join Date
    07-12-2005
    Location
    Maidens, VA
    Age
    67
    Posts
    1,007
    Images
    7

    Default

    I think that the issue of signs and be better taken care of if WHL puts in an "official" request for a sign marking the tote road to the MATC. If the request is reasonable, just a simple sign marking the road at WHL expense, and it is still turned down then I would say the MATC is at fault. Until then, we are just continuing an old pissing contest that does hikers no good. I have some very, very, old experience with the MATC (having had a section of the trail I maintained there in the 70's). Unless things have changed greatly, which they may have, following the proper channels usuall gets good results. Until then, no one wins from this situation.
    There are so many miles and so many mountains between here and there that it is hardly worth thinking about

  6. #346
    Registered User
    Join Date
    04-17-2009
    Location
    t1r10
    Age
    68
    Posts
    73
    Journal Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Saint View Post
    WHL could be one of the best hostels on the trail with some help. I stayed there late last fall on my finish of THRU and was appauled by the amount of money it cost to be there. The books were incorrect on pricing, which made me think the pricing was raised mid season, or the books were misinformed.

    Before you say, you didn't have to stay, think again.

    They intentionally set it up so that if you want food or resupply, you almost have to stay in order to get any food.

    That being said, it's set on a beautiful lake and the grounds are very nice. The pizza is delicious, I'd recommend that if you want to pay out over 80 dollars to stay including food, drinks, etc.

    I had to pay 39 dollars for one night, nothing included. That's twice to three times what almost any other hostel on the trail.

    The fact that the magazines in the bunkhouse were "Fortune 500" and "Yachting" made me realize the actual goal.
    excuse me? $39 gets you a bed a pillow case a shower an all you can eat b fast and the boat ride 1mile back to the trail head duuhh!!! by the way hikers left those mags like we have them kicking around.

  7. #347

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by weary View Post
    Just a thought: The quality of the service is beside the point. Camp Mom complained about discrimination from MATC. I've yet to hear one word of fact that supports that claim -- a lot of supposition, yes. A lot of non related chatter, yes. But absolutely nothing of a factual nature.

    We've heard complaints about MATC being inconsistent. Probably we are at times. We are just a bunch of volunteers who spend our time working on the trail, not arguing about subtle matters of national park regulations.

    Weary
    From your own words, Weary, on post #191 page 10 of this thread;

    "AS near as I can tell, most MATC board members seem quite happy with the status quo, which was achieved as the result of the park service visit, and, I suspect, would not welcome me bringing up the issue again. I doubt if my motion would get a second. I'm sure it wouldn't pass."

    Sounds to me like someone on the "inside" of MATC knows what the outcome would be in advance.
    Stumpknocker
    Appalachian Trail is 35.9% complete.

  8. #348
    Registered User
    Join Date
    04-17-2009
    Location
    t1r10
    Age
    68
    Posts
    73
    Journal Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stumpknocker View Post
    I wasn't going to post anything else on this thread, but now that it's turned towards the ripoffs that come across the lake to pick you up when you blow the air horn, I just had to.

    I'm not sure what the burger costs...I don't care. I eat junk on Trail, so when I get a chance for a real meal, I take it. Usually a steak in town, but those darn ripoffs at White House Landing only have homemade burgers and pizzas, sodas and beer.

    When I'm walking north on the Trail, I"ll walk into the 100 Mile Wilderness with enough food for three days. I've done the 100 Mile Wilderness eight times. Eight times I've stopped in to visit those ripoffs that operate White House Landing, even though they just have that over priced bland one pound homemade burger loaded with onions, pickles and homegrown tomatoes.

    Maybe those ripoffs charge me $8.00 or $9.00 or $10.00....I don't know. Wait a minute. I'm pretty sure I pay $9.00 for a HALF pound hamburger right here in town. Well, maybe those ripoffs at White House Landing aren't ripping me off after all.

    I always resupply while I'm there. They seem to know what kind of trail food hikers like to carry out and seem to have plenty to go around. If I'm walking north that year, I'll resupply for an overnight to Abol Bridge Store. If I'm walking south, I'll resupply for three days to Monson.

    The resupply food that I eat on my first night out from White House Landing is always a homemade pizza. I ask that dang ripoff at White House Landing if she would make a pizza for me to pack out, and it's always there when I get ready to leave, wrapped up nicely to carry in my pack.

    I sleep in the Lakeshore Cabin so I am right next to the lake. That hot shower feels especially good. Those pesky loons just won't be quiet. Nothing worse than falling asleep having to listen to those buggers. Danged place always has clean sheets in it.

    I have to do my own laundry in the laundry tub they provide and hang my clothes to dry on an outside clothes line. Don't those ripoffs know I have standards??

    I just don't understand why anyone has to put up with all the coffee you can drink in the morning before you leave....and an ayce breakfast. Don't those ripoffs know I want to order from a menu??

    Am I getting this complainin' thing down yet?? This is fun.

    Some of my most memorable days on a thru hike are days spent at White House Landing...eating that one pound hamburger for lunch, maybe a pizza for dinner, and taking the canoe out in the lake to spot moose along the shore and watch Katahdin fade away into the dusk.

    I usually tip according to service and friendliness....usually 20%. I once left a one penny tip on the credit card receipt at a restaurant in California, just so the owner of the restaurant would notice how I felt about the poor service I got from his employee. I only did that once....this waitress should not have been dealing with the public.

    I usually leave a 30% tip at White House Landing. Danged ripoffs!

    One last thing....that lodge is always filthy.........well, maybe not always filthy. Hummm, actually, it's ALWAYS been spotless....but that's just one more thing to complain about!!
    thank you stumpy, i would like this post to be the official end of this thread. enough said! but that wont happen

  9. #349
    trash, hiker the goat's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-27-2005
    Location
    the timbers of fennario
    Posts
    2,834
    Images
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stumpknocker View Post
    From your own words, Weary, on post #191 page 10 of this thread;

    "AS near as I can tell, most MATC board members seem quite happy with the status quo, which was achieved as the result of the park service visit, and, I suspect, would not welcome me bringing up the issue again. I doubt if my motion would get a second. I'm sure it wouldn't pass."

    Sounds to me like someone on the "inside" of MATC knows what the outcome would be in advance.
    exactly!

    i'm sure even weary (if he thought a/b it really hard) could see the silly politics at play here.
    "The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive." -TJ

  10. #350

    Default

    You know what usually happens on the Trail? If hiker A sees hiker B doing something like burning trash in the pit or passing up a chance to tank up hiker A usually offers helpful advice. "Hey, here's the right way to do this."
    What happened here was MATC A found a sign they didn't like and started a 10 year vendetta against WHL B. And now that the suppression of trade and two faced actions regarding AMC have come to light, "it's not fair" for people criticize MATC's actions.
    MATC A should've gone to WHL B ten years ago and offered helpful advice. "Hey, here's the right way to do this."
    I have no sympathy for how MATC looks on this issue today.
    Last edited by TJ aka Teej; 05-02-2010 at 22:14.
    Teej

    "[ATers] represent three percent of our use and about twenty percent of our effort," retired Baxter Park Director Jensen Bissell.

  11. #351
    trash, hiker the goat's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-27-2005
    Location
    the timbers of fennario
    Posts
    2,834
    Images
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TJ aka Teej View Post
    You know what usually happens on the Trail? If hiker A sees hiker B doing something like burning trash in the pit or passing up a chance to tank up hiker A usually offers helpful advice. "Hey, here's the right way to do this."
    What happened here was MATC A found a sign they didn't like and started a 10 year vendetta against WHL B. And now that the suppression of trade and two faced actions regarding AMC have come to light, "it's not fair" for people criticize MATC's actions.
    MATC A should've gone to WHL B ten years ago and offered helpful advice. "Hey, here's the right way to do this."
    I have no sympathy for how MATC looks on this issue today.
    well said teej.
    "The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive." -TJ

  12. #352
    Registered User weary's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-15-2003
    Location
    Phippsburg, Maine, United States
    Posts
    10,115
    Journal Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Skidsteer View Post
    How many tote roads are in the 100 mile wilderness? How many are signed? How many are not signed?
    The so called 100-mile-wilderness is a label, not a place. It has no east or west boundaries, just south and north, Maine Highway 15, north of Monson, and Abol Bridge (more accurately, the intersection of the trail with the Golden Road just west of Abol Bridge.)

    Probably a dozen active tote roads cross the trail, maybe more. There are many more road crossings that are no longer maintained, such as the long abandoned road to Mahar Landing. The last time I walked the area, I don't remember seeing signs marking any of them. I suspect that is still true, but I don't know for sure.

    Thanks for asking a factual question. I wish I had a more definitive answer. But based on much of the recent discussion, not many care about facts anyway. All we've heard lately is the belief that MATC is the villian, even though no one has offered a single fact to support that belief. It's all been totally unsupported supposition, and speculation, apparently based on the the belief that a business that makes a good hamburger could do no wrong, and that any group that would approve anything for AMC couldn't possibly do anything right.

    Weary

  13. #353
    Registered User weary's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-15-2003
    Location
    Phippsburg, Maine, United States
    Posts
    10,115
    Journal Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TJ aka Teej View Post
    ....What happened here was MATC A found a sign they didn't like and started a 10 year vendetta against WHL B. And now that the suppression of trade and two faced actions regarding AMC have come to light, "it's not fair" for people criticize MATC's actions. ....
    Your supposition is unsupported by any facts, other than your obvious vendatta against AMC.

    Weary

  14. #354

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by weary View Post
    The so called 100-mile-wilderness is a label, not a place. It has no east or west boundaries, just south and north, Maine Highway 15, north of Monson, and Abol Bridge (more accurately, the intersection of the trail with the Golden Road just west of Abol Bridge.)

    Probably a dozen active tote roads cross the trail, maybe more. There are many more road crossings that are no longer maintained, such as the long abandoned road to Mahar Landing. The last time I walked the area, I don't remember seeing signs marking any of them. I suspect that is still true, but I don't know for sure.

    Thanks for asking a factual question. I wish I had a more definitive answer. But based on much of the recent discussion, not many care about facts anyway. All we've heard lately is the belief that MATC is the villian, even though no one has offered a single fact to support that belief. It's all been totally unsupported supposition, and speculation, apparently based on the the belief that a business that makes a good hamburger could do no wrong, and that any group that would approve anything for AMC couldn't possibly do anything right.

    Weary
    how about this fact - no one at MATC has taken care of a decade long dispute that a quick visit, a little diplomacy, and a little paper work could have resolved simply and easily. instead, we have MATC appearing as the villain since they are obviously offended by a simple sign that may break up the appearance that there is a "100-mile wilderness".

  15. #355

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Man View Post
    how about this fact - no one at MATC has taken care of a decade long dispute that a quick visit, a little diplomacy, and a little paper work could have resolved simply and easily. instead, we have MATC appearing as the villain since they are obviously offended by a simple sign that may break up the appearance that there is a "100-mile wilderness".
    ... when in FACT, there is not

  16. #356
    Registered User weary's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-15-2003
    Location
    Phippsburg, Maine, United States
    Posts
    10,115
    Journal Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stumpknocker View Post
    From your own words, Weary, on post #191 page 10 of this thread;

    "AS near as I can tell, most MATC board members seem quite happy with the status quo, which was achieved as the result of the park service visit, and, I suspect, would not welcome me bringing up the issue again. I doubt if my motion would get a second. I'm sure it wouldn't pass."

    Sounds to me like someone on the "inside" of MATC knows what the outcome would be in advance.
    Has it occurred to you that we spend most of our time working on trails. It's not a matter of "someone on the inside of MATC" knowing "what the outcome would be in advance." That's just another silly conspiracy theory.

    After numerous reports of violations and many discussions by the MATC board, the issue has been turned over to the National Park Service and apparently been resolved. I doubt if many MATC directors would favor reopening the discussion without some solid proposals and commitments from WHL. But this is just my personal opinion. Those who think otherwise can go to www.matc.org and query other directors if they wish.

    Weary

  17. #357
    Registered User weary's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-15-2003
    Location
    Phippsburg, Maine, United States
    Posts
    10,115
    Journal Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Man View Post
    how about this fact - no one at MATC has taken care of a decade long dispute that a quick visit, a little diplomacy, and a little paper work could have resolved simply and easily. instead, we have MATC appearing as the villain since they are obviously offended by a simple sign that may break up the appearance that there is a "100-mile wilderness".
    Your alleged "facts" are not "facts." When our attempts to get WHL to do the responsible thing failed, we turned the matter over to the National Park Service, ending the controversy as far as I'm concerned. It never was a matter of wilderness or the appearance of wilderness. Commercial businesses require a special use permit before erecting signs within the trail corridor. MATC is required report violations to the National Park Service, which we did. Problem solved.

    Weary

  18. #358

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by camp mom View Post
    thank you stumpy, i would like this post to be the official end of this thread. enough said! but that wont happen
    I hope you have another great year. I hope you get your wish and this thread ends real soon.

    I'll be leaving in 22 days for a 4 to 5 month walk, but I'm leaving this thread for good now.....I promise!!
    Stumpknocker
    Appalachian Trail is 35.9% complete.

  19. #359

    Default

    Wow, people really know how to make ***** of themselves, especially attacking Weary who has done more for the AT than almost anyone else who posts here AND over a longer period of time. That is simply shameful.

    Not quite equally ridiculous but certainly more petty is complaining about those delicious WHL burgers and pizzas. I remember telling Linda that she made her burgers the same way I do but hers were better.

    Also silly is comparing Kincora to WHL since Kincora is practically a charity operation for hikers whereas WHL is a business supporting a family. Ask Bob Peoples what he spends a year out of his own pocket running the place and what he would have to charge to break even much less support himself. The donations probably don't cover the gas for trips into town so hikers can eat and shop.

    Yes, the signs and blue paint going into WHL are obnoxious and that should be remedied, no doubt, but the camp itself is nice, well-maintained, and not expensive for what you get, including a round-trip boat ride. The place is completely off the grid, no electricity or other municipal services and it is my understanding that the road in and out can be impassable at times and that the entire place is maintained by the Wares who do everything. Some people act as if it would be better if WHL didn't exist and that seems ridiculous as well.

    So my suggestion would be for some of the MATC volunteers to help the Wares get a simple directional sign up and maybe do something to turn the blue blazes into blazes instead of paint spills in the area where they are allowed and then maybe everyone would be happy. The signs and blue splatters are out of character with the well-maintained grounds and buildings of WHL and give people a bad first impression as well as detract from the "wilderness" experience.

  20. #360
    Registered User Panzer1's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-06-2005
    Location
    Bucks County, PA
    Age
    69
    Posts
    3,616
    Images
    11

    Default

    hay Weary, I like the time of your last post "00:00''

    Panzer

Page 18 of 20 FirstFirst ... 8 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 LastLast
++ New Posts ++

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •