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  1. #361

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    Quote Originally Posted by weary View Post
    Your alleged "facts" are not "facts." When our attempts to get WHL to do the responsible thing failed, we turned the matter over to the National Park Service, ending the controversy as far as I'm concerned. It never was a matter of wilderness or the appearance of wilderness. Commercial businesses require a special use permit before erecting signs within the trail corridor. MATC is required report violations to the National Park Service, which we did. Problem solved.

    Weary
    Problem solved??? Pass the buck is "problem solved"? If someone at MATC spent as much time and effort working with WHL trying to get to "problem solved" as you have here, the "problem" just might be "solved"

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by stumpknocker View Post
    I hope you have another great year. I hope you get your wish and this thread ends real soon.

    I'll be leaving in 22 days for a 4 to 5 month walk, but I'm leaving this thread for good now.....I promise!!
    you have a great year too!!! are you ever in fl?.can e-mail or callwe are not far if you are. happy trails stumpknocker, thanks again for all your support .

  3. #363

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    Fill in the blanks:

    If someone at ______ spent as much time and effort working with _____ trying to get the problem solved as you have here, the problem just might be solved
    I don't quite see how a business operating as a hostel and selling food doesn't grasp the concept of getting a permit. The burden is on the business owner, not on the agency that issues permits.

    That said, if the road has had a name historically, it seems reasonable to maintain a ROAD SIGN at this location.

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by weary View Post
    Your alleged "facts" are not "facts." When our attempts to get WHL to do the responsible thing failed, we turned the matter over to the National Park Service, ending the controversy as far as I'm concerned. It never was a matter of wilderness or the appearance of wilderness. Commercial businesses require a special use permit before erecting signs within the trail corridor. MATC is required report violations to the National Park Service, which we did. Problem solved.

    Weary
    you don't get it there were no attempts,not one person from the matc notified us on any of these issues,so where are you coming up with ALL these attempts.who is at fault here,we talked to the pres. did he say that there was paperwork to file NO ,did he say he would recomend that there should be a sign made..YES. did it happen NO. so there seems to be alot of people telling alot of stories here,it could of been over if they actually contacted us.i am not sure why i have to keep explaining this point. i sure could use a white russian,with just a splash of milk....no hold the milk!!!

  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by camp mom View Post
    you don't get it there were no attempts,not one person from the matc notified us on any of these issues,so where are you coming up with ALL these attempts.who is at fault here,we talked to the pres. did he say that there was paperwork to file NO ,did he say he would recomend that there should be a sign made..YES. did it happen NO. so there seems to be alot of people telling alot of stories here,it could of been over if they actually contacted us.i am not sure why i have to keep explaining this point. i sure could use a white russian,with just a splash of milk....no hold the milk!!!
    and why didn't the man from the natl park service tell us anything,he never said that there was any paper work to sign ,or we would of by now. you can't get any higher up then him,so whats wrong with this whole picture....????? you have his # call and ask.

  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by camp mom View Post
    and why didn't the man from the natl park service tell us anything,he never said that there was any paper work to sign ,or we would of by now. you can't get any higher up then him,so whats wrong with this whole picture....????? you have his # call and ask.
    all he did was cover a blue dot(one) that could be seen from the trail,with camo. paint.

  7. #367

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    Quote Originally Posted by camp mom View Post
    you don't get it there were no attempts,not one person from the matc notified us on any of these issues,so where are you coming up with ALL these attempts.who is at fault here,we talked to the pres. did he say that there was paperwork to file NO ,did he say he would recomend that there should be a sign made..YES. did it happen NO. so there seems to be alot of people telling alot of stories here,it could of been over if they actually contacted us.i am not sure why i have to keep explaining this point. i sure could use a white russian,with just a splash of milk....no hold the milk!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by camp mom View Post
    and why didn't the man from the natl park service tell us anything,he never said that there was any paper work to sign ,or we would of by now. you can't get any higher up then him,so whats wrong with this whole picture....????? you have his # call and ask.
    Quote Originally Posted by camp mom View Post
    all he did was cover a blue dot(one) that could be seen from the trail,with camo. paint.
    Thanks for sharing the FACTS. MATC and NPS dropped the ball - FACT!

  8. #368

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    Quote Originally Posted by camp mom View Post
    you don't get it there were no attempts,not one person from the matc notified us on any of these issues,so where are you coming up with ALL these attempts.who is at fault here,we talked to the pres. did he say that there was paperwork to file NO ,did he say he would recomend that there should be a sign made..YES. did it happen NO. so there seems to be alot of people telling alot of stories here,it could of been over if they actually contacted us.i am not sure why i have to keep explaining this point. i sure could use a white russian,with just a splash of milk....no hold the milk!!!
    Once again you are crying over someone not doing your job for you. You want them to contact you, but have you ever contacted them? Have you ever gone to a MATC meeting to discuss this with them directly?

  9. #369

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    Quote Originally Posted by berkshirebirder View Post
    I don't quite see how a business operating as a hostel and selling food doesn't grasp the concept of getting a permit. The burden is on the business owner, not on the agency that issues permits.
    If they can't figure this out it makes me wonder what other permits they are lacking. Do they have a permit to serve alcohol?

  10. #370
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    Well, the hiking public could rip down AMC signs and replace them with "I WHL" signs.

    Just sayin'
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  11. #371
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
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    I just checked out your web site and enjoyed it.

    For what its worth, given that your facility is hard for some to find, why not add more detail to the "how to find us" section. Right now it just is says:

    To reach our dock from the trail, turn off the AT at the Mahar Tote Road. You will find the road south of the Nahmakanta Stream Campsite and north of the Potaywadjo Lean-To (on your map, it is shown as a dotted line going down to the stream).
    While your description might be sufficient for a hungry thru hiker, other folks obvioulsy need more help. Or if they don't need help, more detailed directions would give a less experienced vacation hiker confidence that they will be able to find your facility when making his trip plans.

    Perhaps some photos, distances and other reference points and a detailed section of topo map.

    My personal feeling on signs is that "less is more", but obviously each situation is unique. If you are getting 850 AT hikers a season these days, your own unique situation is much different now than it was 10 years ago and may speak to the appropriateness of signage.

    Similarly the AMC situation is unique in the Gulf Haggis area. Thoughtful people know that the area is a magnet for day hikers and opens to a network of maintained trails and private land open to the public 365 day a year. It is a similar but different situation.

    Perhaps its best to leave to another thread, but I do think it is worth considering why some people (like me) think that it is a good thing to keep signage (and in particular commercial signage) to a minimum in the back country. Not because we have a monopoly on the truth, but because little things add up.

    In this thread, for example, we have been reminded that the last stretch of AT is not really a wilderness. And, that because it is not a wilderness it is appropriate to allow more of this kind of thing than we would otherwise.

    I understand that perspective, but it really rubs me the wrong way. I think it important to preserve the wild spirit of that stretch of the AT (and others) wherever possible. Even from what seem to relatively trivial intrusions. In part, because each one makes the next more acceptable.

  12. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    I just checked out your web site and enjoyed it.

    For what its worth, given that your facility is hard for some to find, why not add more detail to the "how to find us" section. Right now it just is says:

    While your description might be sufficient for a hungry thru hiker, other folks obvioulsy need more help. Or if they don't need help, more detailed directions would give a less experienced vacation hiker confidence that they will be able to find your facility when making his trip plans.

    Perhaps some photos, distances and other reference points and a detailed section of topo map.

    My personal feeling on signs is that "less is more", but obviously each situation is unique. If you are getting 850 AT hikers a season these days, your own unique situation is much different now than it was 10 years ago and may speak to the appropriateness of signage.

    Similarly the AMC situation is unique in the Gulf Haggis area. Thoughtful people know that the area is a magnet for day hikers and opens to a network of maintained trails and private land open to the public 365 day a year. It is a similar but different situation.

    Perhaps its best to leave to another thread, but I do think it is worth considering why some people (like me) think that it is a good thing to keep signage (and in particular commercial signage) to a minimum in the back country. Not because we have a monopoly on the truth, but because little things add up.

    In this thread, for example, we have been reminded that the last stretch of AT is not really a wilderness. And, that because it is not a wilderness it is appropriate to allow more of this kind of thing than we would otherwise.

    I understand that perspective, but it really rubs me the wrong way. I think it important to preserve the wild spirit of that stretch of the AT (and others) wherever possible. Even from what seem to relatively trivial intrusions. In part, because each one makes the next more acceptable.
    thank you,we agree

  13. #373
    Registered User weary's Avatar
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    As I recall, when I first hiked that section of the AT several decades ago, there was a shelter at Mahar Landing, with an MATC sign on the trail reading "Mahar Landing." Souvenir hunters scrounge such signs from time to time. But I wouldn't be surprised to find that it is still there. I'll have to go look.

    Weary

  14. #374

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    The Mahar Landing sign is still there. . . it's the only sign I've ever seen on the AT there. . .

  15. #375

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    Can't wait to reach ME again soon and see what all the fuss is about.

  16. #376
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    Hey Tin Man


    what happinin dude????
    If you find yourself in a fair fight; your tactics suck.

  17. #377
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    Camp Mom:

    I hope to be SOBO and passing through (thru?) around the first week of June, can't wait to see your place and looking forward some of that home style cooking. Thanks in advance.

  18. #378
    Registered User weary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Man View Post
    Can't wait to reach ME again soon and see what all the fuss is about.
    Just a thought, Tinman. It might have been wiser to have seen "what all the fuss is about," before criticizing a hardworking and super dedicated maintaining club again and again, for causing the fuss.

  19. #379
    Registered User weary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warraghiyagey View Post
    The Mahar Landing sign is still there. . . it's the only sign I've ever seen on the AT there. . .
    Well as Camp Mom has told us, at least one other sign has been posted on the AT there, one "blaze orange snowmobile" sign, or something like that, I think she said.

    In addition to one blaze orange sign, MATC maintainers have also reported a large brown and white painted sign, which from their description looked something like the brown and white sign picture on the WHL website.

  20. #380

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    That sign is nowhere near the trail. . . your sources are incorrect. . . .

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