My sewn-thru gets me to about 50F. I think 1.5" baffles stuffed to 2" would get you to 40F if it fits well.
What I've found after making my top and bottom quilts is that the degree ratings are really just a "guideline" and that you will need to test out your quilts in different temps to see how they preform for you. I've also found that the top quilt ratings can be deceiving due to what is used for my bottom insulation. I can usually carry a lighter weight top quilt if I use a heavier weight bottom quilt. This does not work the other way around, I'm not warm if I have more insulation on top but not enough on the bottom. So your top quilt that's rated for 40 degrees may work just fine at those temps IF you have the right bottom insulation. You wont know until you start testing it though.Originally Posted by Edvvard
That's a very important observation, TL. My underquilt is always thicker than my top quilt just for that reason.
Don't forget insulation for your head, too. A 0F quilt won't get you anywhere near 0F if you don't have serious insulation on your head. I use a JRB Hood in winter and a Blackrock down beanie in shoulder seasons.
Is a hood something that can be made easily?
Thru Hiker in Planning.
take a good look at the hood on one of your old jackets, can you make something that will be shaped sort of like that?? If the jacket is unusable anymore, you could always just cut off the hood part and use as a pattern.
What I do is just pack a wool pull over cap for my head and then I sometimes will stuff my down jacket into the head end of my hammock and while sleeping it keeps my head warm. The sleeves can be used to drap down around my ears. And if I have to get up during the night, I know right where my jacket is.
Yep, if you have an older insulated "Puffy" jacket that you no longer use, just take that puppy and spread it out, take a sewing machine and run two seams across the base like
----------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------
And cut between them, and you have an instant modular hood. If you want you can even put a draw string in the bottom, but I don't find that necessary.
I'm one of the blessed few who can use a CCF cut up and reconfigured for bottom coverage down to low 40s with no issues. The key is using spare clothes in the right places and good underwear. I've been into low 30s and slept as well as I ever did on the ground. I've never been able to stay on a pad on the ground either, so cold spots happen, but it was workable and tolerable enough to get enough rest.
Pad is shortened to 60", the extra I trimmed off is cut into 2 6" wide x 19" long pieces duct taped to the shoulder area on each side giving me 31" wide shoulder area, then I used duct tape to make the pad foldable to a wide butt cushion dimensions. When folded it fits well on the top of my pack, but it a little awkward, I could cut it narrower for a better fit as well, but I'm ok for now.
Here is an example of it.
It works well, but does sacrifice some comfort in the hammock. Small price to pay though. I am working on a DIY double layer to stick it into to bring back the hammock comfort. With this and a heat reflective bubble core window screen from the automotive section in a double layer, I'm thinking 20s with good comfort. 30 degree sleeping bag, the pad, window screen, some good fleece, and a good wool hat, and I bet I still sleep better than I would have on the ground.
I have woken up sweating in the setup above and got out of the hammock to find everything covered in a thick frost and a couple of ground dwellers chattering teeth by the fire trying to get through the night.
I had an idea in regards to my quilt set up. I added up the numbers... with the down i'm using my 2'' loft quilt(i changed my thoughts on it) should weigh about 21 oz or so.
If I were to fold this in half and rig it up a bit... could this be used as an underquilt for my hammock?
And what exactly is 'overstuffing a 1.5'' quilt to 2''? Does this mean the baffles are set to 1.5 still? or is it 2''?
Thru Hiker in Planning.
You can rig any quilt into an underquilt with enough fidgeting. If it's a rectangle without a footbox sewn in, it should be pretty easy. If you have a footbox, you might have some issues with air gaps or compression in your underquilt.
Re" overstuffing, the baffles are 1.5", and this makes the chamber shaped like a rectangle. But when you put down in there, the shell material will "poof out" instead of remaining in an exact rectangle shape. That poofing means that the quilt will be about 2" thick between the baffles, while the baffles will be the thinnest part of the quilt at 1.5".
Question? What temps are you making this quilt for?? My summer quilt is right at 1 pound (16 oz). My winter quilt is made from the same pattern with 5inch+ baffles and it only weights 2 pounds. Summer rated about 40 degrees and winter rated about 5 degrees. The down I used was rated at 750 (I found this really cheap so that's what I used) If I'd used the higer rated 850 or 900 down, my quilts would have weighed less. What rating of down are you using??? Also when I made my quilts, I did a lot of testing first to determine what size to make the quilts. I sure didn't want it to big (or to little). To big and I'm just carrying extra weight that I'm not using. To little and it's not keeping me warm. I found that in my hammock, I needed a smaller top quilt due to how the sides of my hammock comes up and could hold the quilt closer to me.
Yes, a top quilt can be used as a bottom quilt IF.... you've tested it that way and figured out how to attach it to the bottom and not have any air gaps. I've got a military poncho liner that I'll take on some of my "car" camping trips. The liner can be used as a top quilt or tied under my hammock for a bottom quilt. You would have to test out your quilt and see how it works for you. I've got a summer bottom quilt that sometimes just isn't enough and I'll tie the poncho liner under it to increase the temp rating. On my hammock, I like to have the bottom quilt completely cover the whole bottom of my hammock from side to side (not head to foot). This keeps my shoulders and arms warm (no cold spots when I move around).
Overstuffing is when you use the math formulas and it says, such and such ... this much down for this size baffle will give you this rating.. and then you add more down!!! Also, you'll see it in the quilt, you'll make the baffles say at 1" and when you finish the quilt and measure between the baffles... they will look extra puffy. You can put to much down inside and then the down can't puff up right. I believe it's like 10-15 percent more down that you add to each baffle. This will make a warmer quilt.
I want these quilts to be a bit larger so I can use them around my apt and use them as a sleeping bag on the ground, if needs be. I figured 54'' width and 78'' height should cover me, of course it's going to taper at the foot end and the foot box will be something I will have to draw string together.
Are 5'' baffles meaning each baffle is 5'' giving a total of 10'' of loft when laid down?
I was thinking that if I made a 3'' quilt and a 2'' quilt I could combine these two (5'' loft) if I were ever to sleep outside(on the ground) on a really cold night. It hardly gets -10* here, so that 'should' be good, i'm guessing since I did it with the black bag of the USGI sleep system a year ago.
To be honest I'm basically trying to make the USGI sleep system, but with down, no dedicated foot boxes, quilts, and different sizes.
Thru Hiker in Planning.
Your first question doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me???
a baffle is only as high as you make it, if you cut the no-see-um (that's what I made my baffles out of) in strips say 54" long and 6" wide, you will sew (onto say the back material of your quilt) down about 1/2" on one side (sewn down the 54" long side) and then sew the no-see-um strip to the front material of your quilt, also sewing 1/2". This will reduce the strip from 6" to 5". The no-see-um is now stitched to both the front quilt material and to the back quilt material
------------ top material
! ! ! ! pretend this is your 6" no-see-um
------------ bottom material
when you finish sewing all the no-see-um baffles (remember they are simply just long rectangles sewn to your quilt material) you will be left with tubes running down the material. The height of the tubes can't be any higher than what you've sewn them.
You can put one quilt on top of another, you'll have to test them in the cold to see what kind of temp ratings you get out of this setup. Only problem would be if the material is silky and trying to keep them actually on top of you???
Well. I meant to mean... I see people adding the baffle height together a lot. Say... I have a quilt with 2'' of baffle height. I double it since I will be using it as a sleeping bag.
I don't know why people do it, but I see it on some forums and it confuses me too
Thru Hiker in Planning.
you should be confused. even a sleeping bag has no bottom R-value. that's why you need a pad.
go with what you were thinking. 2" is 2" loft.
I'm so confused, I'm not sure if I lost my horse or found a rope.
interesting...
So i could basically just have a quilt with no bottom and be fine? As long as I seal a little bit underneath myself on the sides...
Thru Hiker in Planning.
your talking on the ground , right.
many ultra-liters use a quilt to cut weight. foot box helps too.
I'm so confused, I'm not sure if I lost my horse or found a rope.
Aahhh...I think I see your confusion.
A quilt is only one layer...it's like a blanket you use in your house. No bottom. So a 3" baffle is exactly that...a 3" thick quilt, or 3" of loft. (Or a bit more if you overstuff.)
A sleeping bag is two layers. So if a bag is baffled to 3", it also has 3" on bottom...that's where people add it together and say the sleeping bag is baffled to 6" loft. (They don't mention that you flatten the insulation so you'll never get the full function of that 6" of loft.)
And yes, you can lay one quilt on top of another and get the benefits of the full loft. If you put a 3" quilt on top of a 2" quilt, you'll be roughly as warm as if you were using a 5" quilt. The drawback is that you're carrying two extra layers of shell material...but for many folks that additional weight/bulk is worth the extra flexibility of that system. I've often thrown the JRB No Sniveler over my SD Wicked Fast sleeping bag for winter trips.
Just make sure you have your head insulation. I don't care how thick your quilt is, you'll be freezing at 30F if your head isn't properly insulated.
thanks jeff.
Am I basically wasting my time by having a large, wide quilt? The more I'm reading here the more I'm thinking that's the case. I could probably get away with a quilt that will cover just a little bit of my back(mainly sides and tuck under my back), right?
For hammocking AND ground camping...
Thru Hiker in Planning.
For the top quilt, it depends on how big you are and your hiking style. I'm 5'10"/180lbs and I like the 48" wide quilts...comfortable in a hammock and just enough for the ground. I wouldn't go too much smaller than that. But 48"x78" is a common starting point for underquilts as well, and top quilts without sewn-in footboxes can often be used as underquilts. See the www.jacksrbetter.com products for that.
For my underquilt, I use a Warbonnet Yeti (www.warbonnetoutdoors.com) most of the time now...it's 40"x46", and just perfect to cover my backside down to my legs. I'd hate to try to use something like that for a top quilt, though.
So I'm not sure why you feel like you're wasting your time...you're just figuring out what will work for you. Like any custom project, it just takes time to learn what the options are and to pick what will work best for you.
After all, you're the one carrying it and using it, so it doesn't much matter what anyone else thinks about your gear!
Right, here's a review of a golite ultra 20 quilt. sold for about $135 on clearout.
this is a pic from bottom up. to give you an idea.
http://heberhiking.blogspot.com/2008...own-quilt.html
I'm so confused, I'm not sure if I lost my horse or found a rope.
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