[QUOTE=fiddlehead;1022882
(I once set mine up in a field of pot in Nepal that was 4 feet tall[/QUOTE]
And then you can have a campfire in the tent!
It don't matter if I get a little tired
I'll sleep when I'm dead - Warren Zevon
That is true.Originally Posted by mister krabs
Nylon is initially stronger per weight than polyester (given equal weights/threads per sq. in.), but degrades faster in sunlight. Also - nylon holds more water weight than polyester (that's why polyester is used in hiking undergarments rather than nylon). I'm guessing that it's probably easier to coat nylon with polyurethane because it would get absorbed like water, too. I may not be correct on that, though.
If you look at high quality family tents you will see that many of them have nylon bodies and floors but polyester flys.
As I live, declares the Lord God, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn back from his way and live. Ezekiel 33:11
Before spending some money, I went out for a few days, and on 2 of those nights I set up my tent the "fast pack" way, (frame n fly, no body), and it wasn't that bad. The bugs weren't to much of an issue, their noises were more annoying than anything. Had some chipmunks poke their heads in, and screech n run when I moved in my sleep, waking me, or going into it. Yea, chipmunks are not cute anymore! They are doing a number on my gardens. Anyway, the almost floorless was ok, and a friend of mine and I might pick up the Appy Trails Mark V for when we do the night fishing, drinkin, smokin thing that we do often. We are up for most of the night, but would be cool (and light to carry) to have a place to get out of the rain a bit or crash. But I don't think I'd use it as a standard camping shelter.
When night falls she cloaks the world in impenetrable darkness, A chill rises from the soil and contaminates the air, suddenly....life has new meaning.
For ultra-light shelters with complete bug protection I would recommend Tarptent shelters, but be aware that silnylon does not have the waterproof levels of more standard fabrics...If you are in a puddle and kneeling on a silnylon floor water may be 'pushed' through due to your weight.
Also...Lightheart Gear makes great shelters as well, if you want complete protection, I would look at Big Agnes tents, heavier but also more weather resistant and do not rely on trekking poles.
Maybe I haven't really thought this out well enough. But , going floorless in a summer Tstorm/rainy season would be out of the question of using this method of shelter. Then again, All I know is using a dome tent floor and never experience using a floorless shelter. I can't criticize someone,until I try it myself.
That is a very wise approach, which you don't always see on this forum--to actually try something before you criticize it.
A floorless shelter system replaces weight with skill. You need to develop an eye for campsites that will stay dry in wet conditions. They exist. Look for high, well-drained ground with some leaf litter and duff, as opposed to the "usual" pounded, indented and muddy well-used tent sites that are easy pickings near most trails.
Most floorless shelters have a much larger rain canopy, which in my experience, and paradoxically, actually help keep the skillful user dryer than any dome tent I've used. The rain fly on a dome tent is very close to the floor seam, and it seemed like I'd nearly always get some leakage in at least one of the many corners. That has never happened with my Tarptents.
"Throw a loaf of bread and a pound of tea in an old sack and jump over the back fence." John Muir on expedition planning
For a few ounces the floor is well worth it, IMO. Bugs and wet have been mentioned. I'll add another reason.
With a floor I'm not going to lose stuff. In the morning it is easy to pack up. I'm sure I would be more apt to forget stuff without my floor. I don't need that added to the bugs and wet for a couple ounces.
Sure it can be done, but why?
Fear ridges that are depicted as flat lines on a profile map.
The Wild Oasis tarp with netting around the bottom keeps mosquitoes out
I'm usually in a floorless shelter when solo, but I usually carry either an SMD Meteor bivy or Serenty Net Tent as an inner. There are other bivys or net tents that would work as well.
The combination allows critter and wet ground protection when needed and can be more flexible than floored shelters.
You can pitch in narrower spots that a floored shelter wouldn't fit in.
The Meteor or Serenety can be used alone on most summer nights or inside an AT shelter.
The floorless shelter can be used alone when bugs aren't an issue.
You can pitch a floorless shelter in the rain without getting the inner wet.
And many other advantages...
"If we had to pay to walk... we'd all be crazy about it."
--Edward Payson Weston
Or just get a hammock....
Hammock Hanger by choice
Warbonnet BlackBird 1.7 dbl
www.neusioktrail.org
Bears love people, they say we taste just like chicken.
i never use a floor. just more weight to pack. here is my latest floorless tipi. it is similar to the one i use for sustained backcountry hunts in the fall....
www.wyominglostandfound.com
OOOHH! Unfortunate typo. Not confidence building in it's durability.
Flip side of this, most times when I loose something (temporarily) it is because I inadvertently packed it inside my tent. Not good when you get into camp the next evening, and find your flashlight is not where it should be, and you don't find it until AFTER you've set up your tent by feel. Yep, been there done that.
With a floorless shelter, this has never been a problem.
Use whatever you're most comfortable with. It's all good.
Just make sure you don't lose stuff....
A floorless shelter will have a floor if you use a groundsheet. The groundsheet becomes your floor. If you have enough netting around the edges, you can even tuck in to make a better seal against crawling insects.
I wouldn't worry about kneeling on your floorless floor in a puddle. You'll become smarter about where to set up camp. I was amazed on the PCT in Washington how even after a few days of rain there would still be places where the ground was perfectly dry. I'd set up my tent there and let other people hope their high-tech fabric would keep out the puddles. (I didn't have a floorless tent. I just didn't want my tent to get wet.)
Some knew me as Piper, others as just Diane.
I hiked the PCT: Mexico to Mt. Shasta, 2008. Santa Barbara to Canada, 2009.
the white tipi is my own personal 5 man and the canopy with a stovejack and single door weighs only 26 oz.
i use a dead limb for a centerpole and will usually cut my own tent stakes.
www.wyominglostandfound.com
I used the Appy Trails Mark V during a Sierra Trek last summer. I didn't get to see how it held up in the rain, but it worked very well for me and I liked the light weight. There were a lot of mosquitoes around, but they only got in if I left the door open. They were not able to fly in from under the edges. Crawling insects were the only concern. I did have some ants come inside a couple times, but nothing major.
As far as losing things, I found the floorless design was actually better. I would leave my sleeping bag and pad on the ground cloth, and take the tent down with everything in place. Then I could easily put away the gear in my pack with everything accessible and in the open. Nothing was hidden so nothing was list.
I was just looking at the Marmot Haven 2P. I don't get it. Its a 2 person, non freestanding, single pole floorless (w/ground sheet) 4 pound shelter. Why would someone want this? And for $200! I could think of many, many other shelters for that weight and price (even less on both) that would be full coverage.
http://marmot.com/products/haven_2p?p=118,173,74
When night falls she cloaks the world in impenetrable darkness, A chill rises from the soil and contaminates the air, suddenly....life has new meaning.
I used an Origami 2 for about 6 months (of 3 day weekends). I did not think it had a big footprint. It was super versatile - could be set up in many different ways. Could cook (alc) in it. Could sit up in it. It was dry, except where the elastic door tie backs wicked water and dripped inside (easily fixed with silnet). It was sturdy, held a light snow load, and shed the wind very well. I posted a you tube video of it in a hail storm in the Citico. It did fine. It was a little tricky to get the setup exactly correct. At times one of the 5 panels would be staked at the wrong angle from the center pole and it would lay to low - if that happened I would have to start over with the pitch. As time went on I got better at getting everything set up correctly. But... it was too short. I am 5.10 and I constantly had to battle with my feet sliding out into the rain at night. Argghh!
It was not perfect, but it worked. It is a light shelter that you can count on. Just too short.
By the way -- Sierra Designs got bought out in '08 - their stuff is not as good as it used to be. I doubt that I would ever buy Sierra Designs again and I have been a loyal user since I got my Flashlight Tent back in the 80's.
Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children.
I think the space reveals a lot. It has 56 sq feet of living space. To put that in perspective, that is what many 4 person shelters claim. It is also made with 40d nylon, which has a higher tear strength than 30d silnylon, and is rated more waterproof - the canopy by as much as 700mm and the floor by almost 3 times the hydrostatic head.
From Backpacker Magazine:
"“The incredible space-to-weight ratio and a sturdy weatherproof design makes this one of the best tents I’ve ever used,” declares our Idaho tester. Consider the numbers: It weighs less than four pounds yet offers a whopping 56 square feet of space. A family of four slept comfortably in the Haven and still had space inside for stashing packs and boots. The design is a tarp/tent mash-up, with one arching central pole, a clip-in floor, and minimal bug protection (there’s an open, four-inch gap along the perimeter between the fly and floor). The latter makes this three-season shelter best for deserts and other trips (like fall in the mountains) when insects don’t swarm. Setup requires a few tries to learn the best staking arrangement (tip: first stake the four corners that are perpendicular to the crest pole, to form a “square,” then tack down the rest). The central pole curves from the head and foot ends, and is tensioned by eight stakes. Removing the floor creates an even more minimalist shelter and saves 15 ounces. Ventilation is outstanding, thanks to two zippered vents and the ground-level gap. Testers in Utah and in Montana’s Rattlesnake Wilderness experienced zero condensation – even during constant rainfall. Strong 30-mph gusts nudged (but didn’t collapse) the central pole, and the Haven held firm enough to let our tester sleep soundly through the storm. The large door at the head allowed testers to exit without crawling over their tentmates, and the generous peak height (45 inches) made this a comfy retreat when we sat out 12 hours of rain. There’s no vestibule, but no one complained."
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