Taking off from work

[Mags]

I'm 37 and have had the same career for 15 years. Being that I'm not just out of high school or college, I'm wondering how others have worked out being able to take 5 or 6 months off from work to thru-hike the AT. Any ideas or stories?

Work hard, save money, quit work. Hike. Repeat for thirteen years!

Worked for me several times by choice (and one year not by choice!).

My career has suffered somewhat..but I make a comfortable enough salary as my needs our modest. More importantly, I would not trade the memories and experience I've had for anything! I am your age (next month), and my obligations are now different than even five years ago. Plan on getting married next year, currently cultivating and building up my skill set...but the idea has not changed of making the outdoors the important part of my life.

I am fortunate that my fiance' also loves the outdoors, believes in a modest lifestyle and has dreams similar to mine.

Now there are two of us working hard, saving money and in ~3 yrs we are doing 'something'. I had a good run from 1997 - 2010. Now, I am just in a holding pattern until the next phase. Adrianna and I have decided very quickly that 3-4 wks of vacation is not enough for us and are making plans accordingly so we can achieve that goal.

Guess, as others said, you have to make the choice of how to live your life and go for it. It will take sacrifice, hard work and diligence..but anything in life worth achieving takes that.

(It helps I live in area where even on weekends I can delight in how wonderful the outdoors can be. Hike among the early Spring wildflowers today with Adrianna. Backcountry ski at 11k ft with the buddies tomorrow! Woo!)

[blitz1]

Quitting work is fine, but I'd advise instead to get fired, with a nice juicy severance package. I didn't really plan it this way, but my company had a big cut, my whole group was eliminated. I was offered a new role and bonus to stay on, but decided instead to take the package, which they fortunately agreed to. So now I get to do a thru, which I've always wanted, and already have a new job lined up for when i finish!
YMMV

[Datto]

Here are some goals to consider for those wanting to thru-hike the AT and then continue with adventuring as a sizeable part of life.

Live Frugally -- Guide your life so when you're not adventuring, your living expenses are 50% of your gross income not including savings, taxes and education. Difficult but not impossible for most people to do. It's simply a question of focusing your finances on what counts and not spending money on things that don't matter. If you currently don't live with a written budget that is updated more than once a month then that would be your first step. If you don't have a written budget then when you do, you'll likely be amazed at how much money you waste and squander every month on stuff that doesn't matter.

Get Out Of Debt -- Work your finances so you can have no debt outside the mortgage for your primary residence. This gives you freedom of choice in the future in exchange for not buying on impulse or on time. No car payments, no credit card balance, no student loan balance -- those should go by the wayside.

5% For Education -- Spend five percent of your gross income per year on education that is known to have a specific return to you in higher salary or more job opportunity. This is five percent above and beyond whatever your employer spends on you per year. Every week I update charts that show me precisely and factually what skills are in the highest demand in my field. Then, when it's time to spend my education money wisely, I already have the list of eduction choices from which I can choose -- and from that list I choose based upon what looks interesting to me and can fit into my schedule.

Keep A Car -- Keep a car for 10 years or more. Geez, don't go buying the cool car of the day or the hot car of the day. Research out what car has the least hassle and the most satisfaction from previous buyers who've owned their car for at least one year and make sure you don't buy the first year of a car model or a revised car model. Keep the car for 10 years after you buy it (not necessarily for the first 10 years of the car's lifespan). You will be amazed how much money that will save you -- it'll be thousands of dollars in savings versus buying a car every three years in order to drive the cool car of the day.

Get The Match -- If you're not currently contributing to a retirement plan that has a company match, then you're a fool. Don't you realize the immediate return on the investment you'll enjoy when you contribute to a tax deferred retirement plan that has a company match? It's immense. Work your finances so you can at least contribute to a retirement plan (your company 401k plan for example) that allows you to receive the maximum company match available. Usually this is six percent of your gross salary/wage with a 50% match by the company.

Know What You Want -- I believe this to be one of the most challenging hurdles. There is so much influence by Madison Avenue on your buying habits. What will bring you kudos, what will make you feel good, what will make you cool, what will bring you respect. Most of those types of purchases are complete fluff -- a total squandering of your money. Someone had said, "if thru-hiking the Appalachian Trail is not the number one thing you want to do, then you should stop and go do whatever that number one thing is". Sit down and make a list of the top ten things you want out of life. Wait a month. Then confirm those top ten things by level of importance and order them with the most important item as number one on the list. Now make yourself a plan to accomplish the top three things on your list, make a timetable to accomplish those three things and then execute that plan as your highest priority every day. Just take steps every single day, seven days per week, toward achieving the top three things on your list and you will be amazed at the progress that will accumulate. Much like a thru-hike -- you wake up every day, you put one foot in front of the other. Low and behold, a few months later you're a northbounder entering Maine.

Datto

[earlyriser26]

Section hike. Life is about choices. Don't know what your situation is, but if you are married or have kids it seems crazy to for a 37 year old to quit a job just to go hiking. Good luck on the LOA, particullarly if it is to go hiking. If you are single and have some savings and think you can find another job without great trouble, go for it. Otherwise, take vacation and go for a week or two. Wait for retirement. I have been hiking since 1969. I section hike 2 to 4 times a year. I retire this year and will do much more, but a thru hike is just one long section.

[Trailbender]

That's the thing. The social contract between employer and employee has been broken. We think we're doing good by them but they don't owe you anything for all your sacrifice and they truly are more likely to renege on any social contracts, even the ones in writing, than they are to uphold them.

And some companies wonder why a stressed out stockbroker comes back to his place of employment with a handgun. You cannot expect someone to work for your company, sacrifice, literally trade their life, then cast them aside like an empty beercan and expect no consequences.

My dad worked for Bridgestone for 20 years, and crushed 2 discs in his back, the back problems were directly work related, but their million dollar lawyers were able to twist things and he got nothing. That's why I say screw corporations and factory work. I'd rather spend the rest of my life hiking and be broke as hell than make a ton of money doing something I hated.

[Trailbender]

Section hike. Life is about choices. Don't know what your situation is, but if you are married or have kids it seems crazy to for a 37 year old to quit a job just to go hiking. Good luck on the LOA, particullarly if it is to go hiking. If you are single and have some savings and think you can find another job without great trouble, go for it. Otherwise, take vacation and go for a week or two. Wait for retirement. I have been hiking since 1969. I section hike 2 to 4 times a year. I retire this year and will do much more, but a thru hike is just one long section.

I have to disagree. Nothing wrong with section hiking, but I would not want to wait to retire before I start living my life. I'd rather spend my whole life doing what I want to, than some of it. I know work is unavoidable, but the more frugal you are, the easier this is to accomplish.

[DapperD]

I have to disagree. Nothing wrong with section hiking, but I would not want to wait to retire before I start living my life. I'd rather spend my whole life doing what I want to, than some of it. I know work is unavoidable, but the more frugal you are, the easier this is to accomplish.

Years ago work was much more plentiful. I know for the longest time that work, especially manual labor and tradesman type jobs were abundant. It would of easily been possible to live a nomadic existence (many did) where say a person could be living on the trail and go into town to find odd jobs working for builders, or as store helpers, or doing whatever for some quick money for a week or two, and then be back out on the trail. Today all of that appears to have disappeared, and even menial type jobs, at one time overly abundant and plentiful, have virtually become few and far between and/or disappeared altogether. Eventually a person living a nomadic existence will need money, wether they like it or not.

[Trailbender]

Years ago work was much more plentiful. I know for the longest time that work, especially manual labor and tradesman type jobs were abundant. It would of easily been possible to live a nomadic existence (many did) where say a person could be living on the trail and go into town to find odd jobs working for builders, or as store helpers, or doing whatever for some quick money for a week or two, and then be back out on the trail. Today all of that appears to have disappeared, and even menial type jobs, at one time overly abundant and plentiful, have virtually become few and far between and/or disappeared altogether. Eventually a person living a nomadic existence will need money, wether they like it or not.

Yeah, I suppose I will find out soon, getting on the trail at the end of April, not sure when I will leave. Probably do odd jobs around, I have construction/handyman experience, and I learn fast. I was in college, came back after my thru in 2010, but I can't get the AT out of my mind, so I decided to live on it.

[DapperD]

Here are some goals to consider for those wanting to thru-hike the AT and then continue with adventuring as a sizeable part of life.

Live Frugally -- Guide your life so when you're not adventuring, your living expenses are 50% of your gross income not including savings, taxes and education. Difficult but not impossible for most people to do. It's simply a question of focusing your finances on what counts and not spending money on things that don't matter. If you currently don't live with a written budget that is updated more than once a month then that would be your first step. If you don't have a written budget then when you do, you'll likely be amazed at how much money you waste and squander every month on stuff that doesn't matter.

Get Out Of Debt -- Work your finances so you can have no debt outside the mortgage for your primary residence. This gives you freedom of choice in the future in exchange for not buying on impulse or on time. No car payments, no credit card balance, no student loan balance -- those should go by the wayside.

5% For Education -- Spend five percent of your gross income per year on education that is known to have a specific return to you in higher salary or more job opportunity. This is five percent above and beyond whatever your employer spends on you per year. Every week I update charts that show me precisely and factually what skills are in the highest demand in my field. Then, when it's time to spend my education money wisely, I already have the list of eduction choices from which I can choose -- and from that list I choose based upon what looks interesting to me and can fit into my schedule.

Keep A Car -- Keep a car for 10 years or more. Geez, don't go buying the cool car of the day or the hot car of the day. Research out what car has the least hassle and the most satisfaction from previous buyers who've owned their car for at least one year and make sure you don't buy the first year of a car model or a revised car model. Keep the car for 10 years after you buy it (not necessarily for the first 10 years of the car's lifespan). You will be amazed how much money that will save you -- it'll be thousands of dollars in savings versus buying a car every three years in order to drive the cool car of the day.

Get The Match -- If you're not currently contributing to a retirement plan that has a company match, then you're a fool. Don't you realize the immediate return on the investment you'll enjoy when you contribute to a tax deferred retirement plan that has a company match? It's immense. Work your finances so you can at least contribute to a retirement plan (your company 401k plan for example) that allows you to receive the maximum company match available. Usually this is six percent of your gross salary/wage with a 50% match by the company.

Know What You Want -- I believe this to be one of the most challenging hurdles. There is so much influence by Madison Avenue on your buying habits. What will bring you kudos, what will make you feel good, what will make you cool, what will bring you respect. Most of those types of purchases are complete fluff -- a total squandering of your money. Someone had said, "if thru-hiking the Appalachian Trail is not the number one thing you want to do, then you should stop and go do whatever that number one thing is". Sit down and make a list of the top ten things you want out of life. Wait a month. Then confirm those top ten things by level of importance and order them with the most important item as number one on the list. Now make yourself a plan to accomplish the top three things on your list, make a timetable to accomplish those three things and then execute that plan as your highest priority every day. Just take steps every single day, seven days per week, toward achieving the top three things on your list and you will be amazed at the progress that will accumulate. Much like a thru-hike -- you wake up every day, you put one foot in front of the other. Low and behold, a few months later you're a northbounder entering Maine.

Datto

All of this is good advice. And the one about keeping your car for a long time is very much true. If you spend $30000 on a car, and keep it for 10 years, it will still have cost (without interest) $250 a month for ten years. Granted the car makes you money by taking you to and from work if you commute, etc...but still a lot of money. And many of the cars built today don't hold up mechanically for a full ten years without a significant expenditure for maintenance and repair. This is why financially, buying a new vehicle is not really worth it. The average vehicle is not an investment, and unless one has a good, steady job or uses the vehicle to make their money with, not really worth the expensive price tag.

[sbhikes]

Get The Match -- If you're not currently contributing to a retirement plan that has a company match, then you're a fool. Don't you realize the immediate return on the investment you'll enjoy when you contribute to a tax deferred retirement plan that has a company match? It's immense. Work your finances so you can at least contribute to a retirement plan (your company 401k plan for example) that allows you to receive the maximum company match available. Usually this is six percent of your gross salary/wage with a 50% match by the company.

Oh god yes! Absolutely do this. Do not pass up free money!

I once had a job that made $15 an hour. The company had the match and I took it. I also put in the maximum deduction possible by law. I never noticed the money was missing. I lived frugally. I had enough money to do just about everything I wanted to do. Hiking is a really inexpensive pursuit, ya know! I felt absolutely well-off.

I have an acquaintance who recently got a job at a similar salary. All she does is complain how low-paid she is. She thinks that I'm so terribly rich when I make only a couple dollars more than she does. I asked if she has company matching and she said she does but can't afford to participate. I told her she was a fool to turn down free money. It comes out before taxes. Sometimes it drops you below a threshold and you even get a bigger paycheck. If she took the matching, she'd be making more than I do. I don't even have company matching at the moment. She hemmed and hawed and said she had too much debt and couldn't afford it blah blah blah.

Yeah whatever.

Sorry for the digression, but I guess the morale of the story is that you can maximize what you've been given or you can let yourself slide into a place where you just feel stuck. At some level it really is a choice how stuck you are.

[weary]

Well, at 28 I had my first useful and fun job. At 38 I had a wife and a couple of very young kids, and a new job, my first that paid enough to reasonably support a family. At 48 I had maneuvered into a job that was both fun and useful to the world at large. At 58 my job was still fun and useful, I thought, but I sensed my bosses had doubts about whether I was useful to them.

But I stuck it out with help from the union, and took a small buyout just shy of 62. I messed around for a couple of years, and just shy of 64 went to Georgia and walked home. Whatever. Now 20 years after retiring, I spend a lot of time on trails in between surgeries and other mishaps, both walking and working (for free). Except for frustrations with moderators and doctors, I have no major regrets.

It's nice to remember from time to time that a few things I've worked on will be around for people to enjoy long after I leave this earth.

All I'm suggesting is that these decisions are never easy, nor is what is good for one, good for all.

[tigerpaw]

As far as cars go, I have a 1999 Honda Accord with 200k plus, a 1993 Toyota Camry with 170k, and a 1998 Ford Expedition with 220k. Take care of them and they will take care of you.

[Walkintom]

Seems you're determined to go hiking no matter what. Given that, I think the right thing to do is resign when the time is right and be done with it. Why would you ask the good folks who employ you to work around your dream? At the least, be honest and tell them you're going regardless.

I am indeed determined to hike. However I think it's not up to me to tell the people that I work with whether or not they should grant a leave of absence. The HR policy update for this year says that such requests will be considered on a case by case basis. So I will follow the rules and submit my case for consideration - and make my intentions clear without turning it into an ultimatum. That is why the policy was written; so employees can submit something other than a resignation if they will be absent for an extended period of time not covered by normal attendance rules.

I would really like to be able to come back to my job after we thruhike. If my employer can't see a LOA as an acceptable solution then I will certainly resign and do my best to help find and train a replacement. I would feel worse if I simply resigned and they had to tank some projects than if they choose to not grant a LOA and I resign. This way I am giving them the power of choice over the situation. That's where my ethical compass points, anyway.

[Datto]

Planning Tools

There's an adage in my world that says, "Money, time, scope. Pick two."

Since before my AT thru-hike I've used three specific tools to handle the questions about money, time and scope when planning my life and my adventures. Although I'm a planner type, I'm not a meticulous planner -- I do intense planning one time a year or once every two years, then periodically I'll make small course corrections and add new information and decisions to my plan as that information becomes available.

How good has it been for me to have done things this way? I've taken five significant multi-month adventures in the last ten years and each has been loads of fun and been worth the effort and cost. I've done well in my career from choosing wisely on career paths and efforts -- I am diligent about my career choices but also, I enjoy my career choice so I have fun pretty much every day. Having fun every day is extremely important to me and I've been successful in having fun regularly. Plus, I get paid to do fun things and that sure is the icing on the cake. Do I work a lot? Sure, 10/7/365 but it's voluntary and I've found it wouldn't matter if it was this career or another, that is just the way I am -- I enjoy working. It's fun.

I'd say the last 10 years has been the best 10 years of my short life.

Onto the tools. The tools I use, and the purpose of the tools, is this:

Microsoft Word (you can use OpenOffice for this which is free): This outlines the choices and the options and is a summary of the scope of what I have coming up in the future. I start with a Word document in outline form that has these headings: Financial, Family, Social, Spiritual, Career, Health, Community, Other. Everything in my life fits into one of those eight basic categories. From there I start detailing things out on each of those eight basic categories -- what is important to me in those eight areas of life. Some of those individual categories may be more important to me than others and those are the categories I spend the most time detailing out what and how I'm going to achieve what I want out of life in those categories.

Microsoft Excel (you can use OpenOffice for this which is free): This outlines the upcoming costs for the choices I've outlined with Microsoft Word. This information is included in a spreadsheet because I may regularly play "what if" games and I need a method to make changes quickly (quickly meaning less than a minute or two) and see the financial results of those choices. Excel is a perfect tool for that role. For instance, I may choose a different direction on a long-distance hike (north or south or east or westward) and need to see the cost difference between those two directional choices. Also, after my AT thru-hike I realized how significant the pre-hike and post-hike costs are for a long-distance hike -- for me those are 50% or more of the total cost of a long-distance hike. If I know the big picture on costs, I can better deal with those costs in financial preparation and time choices for an adventure and not become prone to panic about finances.

Microsoft Project (you may be able to use OpenProject for this): Project deals with time and the sequence of events. It shows the sequences of what you're intending to do and the duration for the sequences outlined in your Word document. It puts a timetable to "The Plan" which measures your committment to what you've outlined in the Word document (the most important things tend to go first). Time is the part most people forget but it's one of the most valuable assets you own (and yes, you are the sole owner of your time). Plus, having the ability to re-sequence things on the fly gives you much more valuable information about making choices. For instance, I have three new adventures I'm planning to pursue in the next few years. I've outlined an overall sequence for each of those adventures and in the midst of the sequencing it dawned on me after sequencing those adventures that my second and my third adventure could conceivably be combined into a single adventure if that was my choice. Given that my pre-adventure and post-adventure costs are 50% of my total adventure costs, combining two different adventures into a single adventure saves considerable dough in the long run. Also, heh, as new hurdles come up that haven't been foreseen, you can quickly plug those into The Plan and see what actually happens to The Plan -- is it really significant or is it just a slight course correction to take into account the new hurdle.

The real value in creating your own plan is to force yourself to sit down and describe what it is you want out of life. It's very difficult for most people to break out of the daily rut and think big about their life. Rather than just waking up every day to see what happens instead, you have your hand on the tiller to some extent while still having the ability to adjust to the changing landscape. Having "The Plan" in place allows you peace of mind if you're wanting to pursue big things that have significant risk involved -- like having fun hiking a long-distance trail.

Datto

[Grimelowe]

I'm 37 and have had the same career for 15 years. Being that I'm not just out of high school or college, I'm wondering how others have worked out being able to take 5 or 6 months off from work to thru-hike the AT. Any ideas or stories?

I'm 36. Worked for the the same company for 15 years. I plan to work there another 20. I'm taking a 150 day LOA to hike the Appalachian Trail. I've got a wife, two teen-aged kids, two dogs, a house and all the other trappings of suburban life. I start at Amicalola in 10 days...

I'll let you know how it works out.

-Grimey

[ScottP]

just a word to think about....might want to become a citizen of Canada/Australia if you want to be a hiker bum. Not having health insurance in this country is a nightmare.

[Trailbender]

just a word to think about....might want to become a citizen of Canada/Australia if you want to be a hiker bum. Not having health insurance in this country is a nightmare.

Yeah, odd that something as basic as healthcare isn't universal. I think hospitals have to treat you, though, whether you can pay or not. Fortunately, or not, I am covered by the VA, which should help.

[blitz1]

Yeah, odd that something as basic as healthcare isn't universal. I think hospitals have to treat you, though, whether you can pay or not. Fortunately, or not, I am covered by the VA, which should help.

If it's a life threatening emergency they have to treat you, but if it's not immediately life threatening, they have the option to transfer you somewhere else, or simply decline to treat you. I recall a time a guy who'd been stabbed in the back with a screwdriver was transferred from the private ER where an ambulance took him to the city hospital, with the screwdriver still in place. hey, he was "stable". different hospitals and clinics have different policies but in general, the private ones try hard to avoid giving free care.

[Trailbender]

If it's a life threatening emergency they have to treat you, but if it's not immediately life threatening, they have the option to transfer you somewhere else, or simply decline to treat you. I recall a time a guy who'd been stabbed in the back with a screwdriver was transferred from the private ER where an ambulance took him to the city hospital, with the screwdriver still in place. hey, he was "stable". different hospitals and clinics have different policies but in general, the private ones try hard to avoid giving free care.

Yeah, that sucks. They should remember that they became doctors to heal and treat people. Healthcare in this country is a disgrace, and an expense that is too high for most people. Out of curiosity, I looked up some healthcare plans. I am a 31 year old, very active nonsmoker, and they were all really expensive and had huge deductibles. Someone is not worth more just because they are rich, maybe we will figure this out one day.

[DapperD]

If it's a life threatening emergency they have to treat you, but if it's not immediately life threatening, they have the option to transfer you somewhere else, or simply decline to treat you. I recall a time a guy who'd been stabbed in the back with a screwdriver was transferred from the private ER where an ambulance took him to the city hospital, with the screwdriver still in place. hey, he was "stable". different hospitals and clinics have different policies but in general, the private ones try hard to avoid giving free care.

Yeah, that sucks. They should remember that they became doctors to heal and treat people. Healthcare in this country is a disgrace, and an expense that is too high for most people. Out of curiosity, I looked up some healthcare plans. I am a 31 year old, very active nonsmoker, and they were all really expensive and had huge deductibles. Someone is not worth more just because they are rich, maybe we will figure this out one day.

What they "should" do unfortunately is not necessarily something they will always do. There are other issues involved which cause problems in the healthcare industry that cause this reaction. Part of the problem from what I understand is the very high malpractice insurance these doctors and healthcare practitioners must pay for. When people sue for malpractice, you are talking big money and if they win and these insurance companies pay big settlements, the cost of the insurance becomes unaffordable. When and if a hospital itself is sued, they could wind up closing down, as many have and are. So there is a problem with the healthcare industry in this country. I feel that for anyone born and raised here, there ought to be free quality medical care available to them, however this is not the case. I believe Portugal for example is one country that gives free healthcare to it's citizens. If they can do it, it is sad that we can't/won't.