Mileage for a newbie?

[Doc Mike]

It is 3am and I cant sleep. My whole body just hurts. I am bruised, blistered and scraped. I have lost 2 toenails so far and I can barely walk. I am NOT exaggerating. I have never felt a world of hurt quite like this.

Not such prettywoman feet now.

Just kidding, In my opinion and I think others may agree. You should always break in shoes/boots prior to an extended hiking trip. I'm not familar with the boots you had but some will take weeks to break in and some need almost no time for break in. Yours since you lost 2 toenails obviously needed more time than was allotted.

As far as pack weight that is all over the range with opinions but my son (115 pounds) can go all day with a 20-25 pound pack so my opinion is you will need to be under 30 for comfort.

Better luck on your next trip.

Doc Mike

[think0075]

thats just numbers and its ....... a 300lb man should carry a 60# pack? LOL
i watched 100# women hike past me with 35# packs. with the 20% theory you will never be able to hike the 100 mi. wilderness.
for your feet go back to the professionals at the LL Bean Flagship in Freeport.
were your laces tight? you weren't wearing sock liners were you??

That is the most absurd thing i have ever heard, there are tons of people who hike the 100 mile wilderness carrying 20 % or even less of their bodyweight. not everyone needs to wear sock liners.

[mudhead]

Try your current running shoes on a day hike. Up down turn around.

Day pack at most. Drink water at the vehicle.

Lots of attention to footwork and balance.

[Spokes]

......not everyone needs to wear sock liners.

Agreed.

Remember the inside double loop construction of most quality hiking socks such as Darn Tough of Vermont or Bridgedale Endurance Trekker's also act as a "liner".

Why spend money on a liner if you don't need them? Oh, and stay away from socks that have a generic "cushion-sole"!

[Prettywoman0172]

Try your current running shoes on a day hike. Up down turn around.

Day pack at most. Drink water at the vehicle.

Lots of attention to footwork and balance.

Never, ever, ever would I wear running shoes on those rocks. I rolled my ankles dozens of times, without the support of the boots there would have at least been a good sprain, possibly a break. As it is, an old ankle injury (bad bad break) from years ago is hurting.

[leaftye]

As others have said, your shoes sound like they are are grossly undersized. Don't be scared to go up 2 sizes or more. Try on men's shoes, supposedly they are wider.

I just read your journal and you said weren't taking breaks to air out your feet. That's part of the problem of hiking with others. Try altering how you hike with others to better suit your hiking style. It does a lot of good to stop for 10-15 minutes to take off your shoes and socks and massage your feet for a few minutes.

You still carrying 2 metal bottles? Did you even do the boiling water thing? I'd dump at least one bottle. If you're regularly warming two bottles to stay warm at night, you need to select warmer sleeping gear. Those bottles and extra fuel are causing you to carry at least half a pound extra all the time, and probably over a pound at the trailhead due to extra fuel, not to mention being forced to walk into camp with at least 2 liters of water. I'd much rather have an extra pound of down insulation in my sleeping bag.

And back to water again. You can reduce water weight in your pack by drinking as much water as you can while at water sources. Planning to sleep near water will allow you to carry progressively less water weight as you approach camp.

I'd say post a gear list, but I'd rather that you closely evaluate the gear you used on this last trip and think hard about what you can eliminate. Do more trips and learn more about what you can do to reduce weight and suffer less.

[sly dog]

Did jack set the pace? If u tried keepin a 3mph pace as a newbie you will suffer. The first couple times set your own pace and take a lotta breaks. My 1st time i was tryin ta keep up with thru hikers in VT and was hurting after a couple days. Now i average 15-18 a day and thats with a 10:00 start. It'll get easier.

[JAK]

Gotta watch that Cammo Jack...


A modern day warrior
Mean mean stride,
Today's Tom Sawyer
Mean mean pride.

[JAK]

Though his mind is not for rent
Don't put him down as arrogant
His reserve, a quiet defense
Riding out the day's events
The river

[leaftye]

Never, ever, ever would I wear running shoes on those rocks. I rolled my ankles dozens of times, without the support of the boots there would have at least been a good sprain, possibly a break. As it is, an old ankle injury (bad bad break) from years ago is hurting.

Are the boots really helping you out if you're still rolling your ankle dozens of times? The tall soles of those boots may be contributing to your ankle problems. You may not need ankle support if shoes with thinner soles don't create the torque that's rolling your ankles. Shoes with thinner soles tend to be lighter too, and that should allow you to walk faster, burn less energy, and probably breathe better too.

I started this year hiking with leather boots. The sides suffered a lot of scrapes from all the ankle rolling. I also suffered an ankle injury that eventually took me off the trail. I later switched to lightweight shoes that don't have all the side scrapes like the leather boots had. I'm pretty sure I rolled my ankles less.

[garlic08]

Hiking is supposed to be fun. So yes, you obviously hiked too many miles for your experience level. You carried too much stuff over too much terrain in ill-fitting footwear. I know, message from Planet Obvious. But you asked. And I can imagine that everyone responding here has done pretty much the same thing.

One of my favorite sayings goes, "Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." You just got some experience. Learn from it. Hopefully, at some level at least, you enjoyed the hiking and will go out and try again with this whole load of wisdom you painfully gained.

There's no longer any need to carry 20% of one's body weight. Good inexpensive lightweight gear is available now ($120 packs at less than a pound, $200 shelters at less than two pounds, sleeping pads at $30 and 8 oz, Aquamira at $12 and 3 oz, etc). I routinely hike well over 100 miles with no resupply, in dry country, carrying less than 15% of my body weight (I'm 150#), and it's fun and painless. I sure didn't start out that way, though! Good luck figuring out what works for you.

[Prettywoman0172]

Give me some boot suggestions!

[leaftye]

If you don't want to transition to low top trail runners yet, take a look at the Inov-8 Roclite 390. They used to have a non-goretex version of that shoe, but sadly, they've decided to stop producing that version. Their Terroc shoes are wider, but none with high tops.

You might also want to take a look at Vibram Fivefinger shoes. I hate to suggest adding more weight (~10-12 ounces), but it may be worth carrying a set of those Vibrams in your pack on your next hike. At some point try switching shoes for a couple miles and see how they work for you. If it doesn't work, you should still be able to utilize them at home for jogging and the gym.

[Mountain Wildman]

I recently bought a pair of Oboz, If I recall the company was started by Execs from Montrail and Vasque, though I could be wrong, Anyway, I went to Eastern Mountain Sports and tried on their Firebrand Men's and they are the most comfortable shoes I've ever worn, wearing them now, They have gender specific:http://www.obozfootwear.com/site/xdpy/ss/Womens.html
Might be worth checking them out.
I have a pair of Vasque Velocity's and they are very comfortable as well but they are Trail Runners, My Asolo Fugitives are ok but hurt my feet after several hours of wear.

[mountain squid]

I also think that 11 miles per day was too much. That is one of the disadvantages of hiking with someone - you're less likely to want to split up even if it is necessary. Lesson learned though. Now you know some of your own limitations. Once you've been on the trail for a few weeks though, an 11 mile day will be too short (unless you're hitting town).

Your pack might be on the heavy side as well. You might consider posting your complete gear list for scrutiny asking specifically for lightweight alternatives, as you mentioned. I highlighted 'complete' because ounces add up to pounds rather quickly and you might be carrying alot of superfluous little things. I would also suggest posting your list before purchasing new gear and researching everything as aaronthebugbuffet suggested.

Additionally, 5 liters of water in summer might be necessary at times. If you are starting in Mar/Apr you likely will not need to carry that much all the time. By the time summer comes around you will have your hiking legs and you will also probably know where the dry stretches of trail are, which might require carrying additional water. (On the other hand, typical resupply is 3-5 days, so you'll likely be carrying more food on your thru . . )

At any rate, don't get discouraged. When you start your thru, plan low mileage days in the beginning. Take lots of breaks and allow your feet to air out whenever you can. And, before you know it, you'll be pushing 20's like they are nothing . . .

See you on the trail,
mt squid



PS. You've got too many http's in your journal link.

[rpenczek]

Few things (others have suggested similar)

1. Post your total gear set on WB along with weights - you will be amazed at the good suggestions you will get about replacements. Remember to include EVERYTHING.

2. If and when you replace gear, the fastest way to cut weight is bag, pack and shelter.

3. Learn to use water treatment tablets vs a filter, sooo much lighter and easier (pumping gets old).

4. Unless the trail is totally dry, don't carry so much water. At the begining and at each additional water stop, not only refill your water bottles, BUT DRINK AS MUCH AS YOU CAN HOLD (LIKE YOUR GONNA PUKE FROM TOO MUCH WATER). Also, begin to add additional hydration several days before your hike begins.

5. When I started backpacking, 5 miles was a killer (in the Indiana flat lands in the summer heat). I have much more experience now and am 80 pounds lighter, but I still don't like to go much more than about 12 miles a day, I like some camp time to relax. When I take boys (Scouts) backpacking for the first time we stick to 5 miles days and quickly build to 7 or 8 (second trip). Your body (muscles) needs time to adjust to carring the pack and walking on uneven (rock/root) footing.

6. Boots/shoes - this is really a personal preference (full leather or trail runner), but your current shoes are obviously not right given the toe nail loss. Take them back and get your cash. I love my full leather Asolos, but am considering a switch to trail runners now that I have lost weight. Its a hard call given never having had a bilster. Oh ya, I don't really believe my high top full leather boots add to stability (keep me from rolling). But I do belive that the foot bed and sole are much more sturdy and does not break down as quickly as trail runners (read continued support over time and I don't feel the rocks on the soles of my feet). But with the significant weight loss (you are light too), trail runners should be able to handle me now. Why not give your regular running shoes a try?

[camojack]

Did jack set the pace? If u tried keepin a 3mph pace as a newbie you will suffer. The first couple times set your own pace and take a lotta breaks. My 1st time i was tryin ta keep up with thru hikers in VT and was hurting after a couple days. Now i average 15-18 a day and thats with a 10:00 start. It'll get easier.

Jack stopped a lot, especially at difficult sections of descent to help advise how to approach them, and just to allow her to catch up sometimes. So no, I really didn't set the pace. I also gave her options for bailing early, but she was a trooper and carried on.

Of course carrying less weight would help, so there are items that could be changed to lighter ones...like no metal water bottle, for example. Possibly what others have said about the boots being too tight was correct. My advice was Superfeet inserts and trekking poles, but I did get her to use a hiking staff fashioned from deadfall found on the trail...

[tdoczi]

i'd say try day hiking several times without any gear. if you cant do 10-15 miles a day without a heavy backpack and not feel hurt afterwards then attempting it with one definitely isnt going to do you any good.

[Grinder]

the contributors here routinely throw around 10 miles a day as a reasonable starting figure for mileage.

I sure didn't find it to be so. 5 to 8 miles per day and I was whipped. I too was fit and ran and biked a lot. It doesn't really help hiking muscles. at least not so as I noticed while hiking.

Each year I am amazed and blindsided by how hard the first days are.

Blisters equals wrong shoes or maybe not broken in shoes. Go lots wide/ bigger.
I was 9 1/2 my whole life and have migrated to 10 1/2 and they still seem kind of narrow in the ball of my foot. my heel is snug

[Many Walks]

Your outing isn't a waste, but is actually a good experience because it opened your eyes to what it's really like out there. It all sounds like a great idea when your sitting in a comfortable living room, but reality sets in when you hit the trail. Several people start a thru with high hopes, but quit because it's not what they expected. I read about one person who planned for years and said “everything was going great until I hit the approach trail”. She quit and never even made it to Springer Mt. A short shakedown hike was good for you prior to starting a thru.


Your boots are a good brand, but you just need to be sure you have enough room on the toe box and your lacing method keeps your foot anchored so your toes don't slide to the front on downhills. Without enough room and proper lacing no brand or style will work. Quality socks like Darn Tuff and good insoles like Spenco Backpackers will also keep your feet stable and from rolling and sliding.


Regardless of what ratios for weight are quoted, try to think in terms of ounces while realizing you're only out for a few days at a time between towns. Get your overall “skin out” weight as low as possible while still being safe. A lot of outfitter sales people have never thru hiked and will think in terms of expedition gear and will recommend bigger (heavier) stuff, plus that gets them a higher commission. Only a few are as focused on your success and lighter weight like the folks at Mountain Crossing, so unless you go to someone like MC you'll have to be sure your decisions are good for you. Get your weight down to the lightest basics, get footwear that really fits with plenty of room with proper lacing, take your time breaking everything in, hike at your pace, go fewer miles to start and don't feel bad about it, and stop to take care of yourself at the first sign of hot spots or pain and you'll learn to enjoy hiking for a long time. It's worth the effort and we hope you stick with it. Wish you the best!