how much money do you make?

[Dogwood]

To imagine possible alternative scenarios is certainly fun, but not realistic in the real world. - Weary

REALLY? Passionately pursuing solutions/alternatives/new paradigms, and yes even new imaginations/dreams, is at the heart of innovation, great discovery, and evolution as a species. It's what drives us forward!

Why do so many keep mentioning "taking six months off without pay was not an option" as an obstacle to thru-hiking as if everyone who goes on a thru-hike/hike does it without any planning or far in advance knowledge as if it's always done without any preparation on the spur of the moment? Excuse me for being disillusioned, but can't part of the up-front planning for a hike include making prior financial arrangements for when you will be hiking? It seems to me, again maybe because I'm disillusioned, or perhaps because I have tasted of what it's like to touch the stars, that if a busy CEO with a young family can find a way to organize a hike and also take care of their family and biz responsibilities, if a blind man can stumble more than 3000 times to hike the entire AT, if 4 dirt poor homeless folks can find ways to complete thru-hikes, if the 3-4 young wedded mothers with young families can find ways to complete thru-hikes AND also take care of their families at the same time, if 3 drug addicts in the midst of beating their addictions can accomplish thru-hikes, if Earl Schaffer can find a way to complete a thru-hike when just before he accomplished this feat it was said that a thru-hike of the AT would be virtually impossible, if the various practicing doctors, lawyers, judges, and engineers WITH families can find ways to thru-hike, IF I can find ways to hike AND still meet other off-trail responsibilities/obligations, and if ALL those others who have FOUND WAYS to responsibly hike what does that say about your situation? THINK ABOUT THAT! STOP! THINK ABOUT THAT! I KNOW ALL THESE PEOPLE IN THOSE SITUATIONS WHO COMPLETED AT THRU-HIKES! DON"T THOSE STORIES OF OVERCOMING GREAT CHALLENGES INSPIRE YOU TO ALSO PURSUE POSITIVE ALTERNATIVES/SOLUTIONS/REALITIES. WHAT IF YOU WERE THE EXCEPTION? WHAT IF YOU WERE THE ONE WHO WAS LABELED AS BEING UNREALISTIC?

WHAT IF YOU CREATED A NEW DEFINITION FOR YOURSELF OF WHAT WAS REALISTIC?

[weary]

To imagine possible alternative scenarios is certainly fun, but not realistic in the real world. - Weary

REALLY? Passionately pursuing solutions/alternatives/new paradigms, and yes even new imaginations/dreams, is at the heart of innovation, great discovery, and evolution as a species. It's what drives us forward!

Why do so many keep mentioning "taking six months off without pay was not an option" as an obstacle to thru-hiking as if everyone who goes on a thru-hike/hike does it without any planning or far in advance knowledge as if it's always done without any preparation on the spur of the moment? Excuse me for being disillusioned, but can't part of the up-front planning for a hike include making prior financial arrangements for when you will be hiking? It seems to me, again maybe because I'm disillusioned, or perhaps because I have tasted of what it's like to touch the stars, that if a busy CEO with a young family can find a way to organize a hike and also take care of their family and biz responsibilities, if a blind man can stumble more than 3000 times to hike the entire AT, if 4 dirt poor homeless folks can find ways to complete thru-hikes, if the 3-4 young wedded mothers with young families can find ways to complete thru-hikes AND also take care of their families at the same time, if 3 drug addicts in the midst of beating their addictions can accomplish thru-hikes, if Earl Schaffer can find a way to complete a thru-hike when just before he accomplished this feat it was said that a thru-hike of the AT would be virtually impossible, if the various practicing doctors, lawyers, judges, and engineers WITH families can find ways to thru-hike, IF I can find ways to hike AND still meet other off-trail responsibilities/obligations, and if ALL those others who have FOUND WAYS to responsibly hike what does that say about your situation? THINK ABOUT THAT! STOP! THINK ABOUT THAT! I KNOW ALL THESE PEOPLE IN THOSE SITUATIONS WHO COMPLETED AT THRU-HIKES! DON"T THOSE STORIES OF OVERCOMING GREAT CHALLENGES INSPIRE YOU TO ALSO PURSUE POSITIVE ALTERNATIVES/SOLUTIONS/REALITIES. WHAT IF YOU WERE THE EXCEPTION? WHAT IF YOU WERE THE ONE WHO WAS LABELED AS BEING UNREALISTIC?

WHAT IF YOU CREATED A NEW DEFINITION FOR YOURSELF OF WHAT WAS REALISTIC?

Your examples mostly strike me as far easier paths towards a thru hike than that facing a young family living on low wages with hospital bills and a house mortgage.

Weary

[sbhikes]

It's not always an imposition on the wife (or man in my case) back home. After I did my hike I was so totally STOKED that my boyfriend wanted to do a 700 mile section of his own. I was thrilled to have the chance to send his resupplies, follow his journal and his progress, hear his stories, send him little treats, try to meet him on the trail and yes, probably most of all, HAVE THE WHOLE HOUSE TO MYSELF!!

Unfortunately his hike lasted only 170 miles because he fell and sprained his ankle. I think I was more devastated when he came home early than he was.

[weary]

It's not always an imposition on the wife (or man in my case) back home. After I did my hike I was so totally STOKED that my boyfriend wanted to do a 700 mile section of his own. I was thrilled to have the chance to send his resupplies, follow his journal and his progress, hear his stories, send him little treats, try to meet him on the trail and yes, probably most of all, HAVE THE WHOLE HOUSE TO MYSELF!!

Unfortunately his hike lasted only 170 miles because he fell and sprained his ankle. I think I was more devastated when he came home early than he was.

Now add struggling to survive from paycheck to paycheck and three young children to the equation.

Weary

[sbhikes]

Did you ever hear of saved up vacation pay?

[weary]

Did you ever hear of saved up vacation pay?

Of course. I envied those -- mostly government -- workers who could save up endless vacation time. The more common practice, at least during my working years, was "use it or lose it."

Weary

[sbhikes]

Government workers? I'm sorry but private industry workers save up tons of vacation time all the time. My boyfriend had a month's worth until recently. I've had a month's worth several different times at several different jobs over my years of working, including at some lower-paying jobs. I'd say it's probably easier for private industry workers to save up a lot of unused vacation time since it's so dang hard to ever use it.

[The Solemates]

Government workers? I'm sorry but private industry workers save up tons of vacation time all the time. My boyfriend had a month's worth until recently. I've had a month's worth several different times at several different jobs over my years of working, including at some lower-paying jobs. I'd say it's probably easier for private industry workers to save up a lot of unused vacation time since it's so dang hard to ever use it.

this is a generalization, and is not the case in many (if not a majority) of private industry jobs. i work private industry and our vacation does not roll over year to year. if you dont use it, you lose it.

[Pedaling Fool]

I'm govt. and I couldn't save up endless vacation time and was limited on how much I could sell back. Maybe different for other govt workers, I don't know, but not the case for us military types.

[flemdawg1]

I'm govt. and I couldn't save up endless vacation time and was limited on how much I could sell back. Maybe different for other govt workers, I don't know, but not the case for us military types.

The limit for DOD folks is 240 hours, 6 weeks. Then you get into "use or Lose" territory.

[yari]

The limit for DOD folks is 240 hours, 6 weeks. Then you get into "use or Lose" territory.

Limit for NYS workers is 320 hours, I think, I retired from the state 5 years ago and it is already hard to remember. Saved sick leave was higher, can't remember what that was, 1200 hours maybe? I am in private sector now and we have PTO with a use it or lose it policy.

[Dogwood]

Your examples mostly strike me as far easier paths towards a thru hike than that facing a young family living on low wages with hospital bills and a house mortgage.
Weary

It's always easier to assume you have a MUCH harder time accomplishing what others have accomplished because you have a UNIQUELY difficult situation that no one else has faced and overcome before! It's no different than believing you have the hardest job, life, marriage, etc etc etc than anyone else. Having this belief makes for convenient excuses why we don't take that first step/accomplish/find a way/succeed.

Woe is me.

I'll keep trying because we are still at the pt where we envision our situation/problems/issues/challenges/OPPORTUNITIES as being so large and insurmountable that they fill our thoughts, line of vision, and determine our actions. Magnifying and keenly focusing on the difficulty and supposed insurmountability of our situation(s) paralyzes and sidetracks us from seeking solutions/moving forward! Never going to make a breakthrough/move ahead if we stay in that place. Let's hear more about solutions! IS THAT POSSIBLE?

Can we possibly get to the pt where we finally say, "if a blind man can stumble 2200 miles through the woods and over the Appalacian Mountain chain, MAYBE, my situation is not all that impossible?"

[weary]

It's always easier to assume you have a MUCH harder time accomplishing what others have accomplished because you have a UNIQUELY difficult situation that no one else has faced and overcome before! It's no different than believing you have the hardest job, life, marriage, etc etc etc than anyone else. Having this belief makes for convenient excuses why we don't take that first step/accomplish/find a way/succeed.

Woe is me.

I'll keep trying because we are still at the pt where we envision our situation/problems/issues/challenges/OPPORTUNITIES as being so large and insurmountable that they fill our thoughts, line of vision, and determine our actions. Magnifying and keenly focusing on the difficulty and supposed insurmountability of our situation(s) paralyzes and sidetracks us from seeking solutions/moving forward! Never going to make a breakthrough/move ahead if we stay in that place. Let's hear more about solutions! IS THAT POSSIBLE?

Can we possibly get to the pt where we finally say, "if a blind man can stumble 2200 miles through the woods and over the Appalacian Mountain chain, MAYBE, my situation is not all that impossible?"

Well, I exceeded in doing a number of useful things, against all predictions. I first told the people of Maine willing to listen that they owned 400,000 acres of land that they had forgotten about. I raised three fine kids. I founded a land trust that has protected 800 acres of land in a high priced town, and helped build 25 miles of trails on those lands.

I called Maine people's attention to the Maine mountains in the state, resulting in the public protection of some of the wildest sections and widest trail buffers of the entire Appalachian Trail.

But somethings would have been beyond my ability, like taking six months off at the age of 40 and hiking the AT, leaving a wife, a half rebuilt house, and three kids behind, in part maybe because such an absurdity never crossed my mind at the time.

I'm now trying to increase the narrow corrdidor that buffers the footpath in Maine. (You can help. Just open www.matlt.org)

So what are you trying to tell me, Dogwood.

Weary

[Dogwood]

So what are you trying to tell me, Dogwood. - Weary

Weary, if you read all my posts on this thread you might notice that everything I've been saying has not been specifically aimed at you, so don't take it that way. By now, with me hammering home my contentions over and over in several posts, I thought you would have been awakened to the ideas that I've been putting forth. If you don't yet know what I've been saying I suggest you carefully read(reread) through my posts and meditate on the ideas espoused.

I was aware of some of your selfless contributions to the AT and hiking in general, but I was not aware of the extent of your actions. THANK YOU! And, thanks for the link to Maine Appalacian Land Trust(MALT) and the High Peaks Initiative.

[DapperD]

It's always easier to assume you have a MUCH harder time accomplishing what others have accomplished because you have a UNIQUELY difficult situation that no one else has faced and overcome before! It's no different than believing you have the hardest job, life, marriage, etc etc etc than anyone else. Having this belief makes for convenient excuses why we don't take that first step/accomplish/find a way/succeed.

Woe is me.

I'll keep trying because we are still at the pt where we envision our situation/problems/issues/challenges/OPPORTUNITIES as being so large and insurmountable that they fill our thoughts, line of vision, and determine our actions. Magnifying and keenly focusing on the difficulty and supposed insurmountability of our situation(s) paralyzes and sidetracks us from seeking solutions/moving forward! Never going to make a breakthrough/move ahead if we stay in that place. Let's hear more about solutions! IS THAT POSSIBLE?

Can we possibly get to the pt where we finally say, "if a blind man can stumble 2200 miles through the woods and over the Appalacian Mountain chain, MAYBE, my situation is not all that impossible?"

Dogwood, I have been reading/have read your posts on this thread, and I believe I understand what you are saying. You are stating that "where there is a will, there is a way" and for people with major current obligations, such as people in the process of raising children, or for people with family obligations and who want to undertake other endeavors, (such as thru-hiking) that they can always be able to find a way to fulfill their goals and dreams and fulfill their pending life obligations at the same time if they are willing to be creative and think "outside the box". I think this pretty much sums up what you are trying to convey to other's. That if a blind man can thru-hike (which to me is amazing) then our current dilemmas certainly pale in comparison, and thus can be surmounted with the will and effort to do so. I agree that if we want to do it, plan on it, square away our finances and have other's willing to temporarily assume and take on additional responsibilities (such as raising our children without us temporarily) then we can do what you are saying. What I believe you fail to understand is that just because it is possible to fullfill these goals at a time when we are needed for family, role of breadwinner, provider ,nurturer, etc...we would not choose to or attempt to undertake our dreams and goals at present because to leave our children (for however long), our homes, our significant other's, etc...at this current stage when we are needed would simply not be desirable, honorable, and/or even enjoyable. I have heard on this site thru-hiking described as a "selfish thing to do", when one leaves another when it is not a mutual agreed upon endeavor, or when one is needed elswhere. I have also read one poster stating "I wouldn't trade 1 mile hiking with my kid on any trail for the opportunity to do 10 thru-hikes". So you see, you are right when you say that it is possible to fulfill dreams while we all have other pressing commitments, but you are wrong to think that we would choose to do so.

[buzzamania]

I think family obligations more than money or jobs keep people from long term backpacking trips. I take my kiddos with me for a week at a time but they are all under 12 years old. My 4 year old did 8 miles with me one day. But to do 3 months would not be possible right now. I look forward to the day that we do a month in the summer together.

[weary]

We are all faced with choices throughout our lives. Most of us during the children nurturing, family bread winner years of our lives, put aside six month vacation dreams in favor of other, more realistic, challenges.

The fact that an occasional physician, engineer, blind person .... was able to thru hike is beside the point. Most of us, probably wisely, forego such pleasures, or conclude they would be impossible considering our finances at the time. I've always tended to choose activities that I considered most possible, responsible and valuable to me, my family, and occasionally to society.

Weary

[Dogwood]

The reason people tell you not to do something is usually because they would never do it themselves, they don't have the guts or courage, they are too afraid, etc...If you do it and are successful, then what does it say about them, how will they feel, etc... - Stranger

The fact that an occasional physician, engineer, blind person .... was able to thru hike is beside the point. - Weary

WOW! What a shallow ignorant slap in the face to all those people in those time consuming stressful highly responsible careers who managed to thru-hike while at the same time meet the obligations to their families and their careers.

Weary, are you blind? Have you EVER hiked one single mile in your entire life BLIND? I will assume you are not blind and have NEVER hiked one single mile blind! SO, you have not one single iota of knowing what this is like! Bill Erwin said he estimated that he fell 3000+ times while thru-hiking. He could have quit or said, "this is impossible" the first time he fell or the 3000 time he fell! BUT HE DIDN'T! He could have decided to NEVER take that first dangerous unknown step! BUT HE DID! He could have heeded what so many were probably telling him - " be realistic, don't try it, what are you crazy?, you can't do that, you are blind!, you are going to hurt or kill yourself, you are going to fall off a cliff." BUT, HE PRESSED FORWARD! HE DID THE IMPOSSIBLE! HE WAS UNREALISTIC! HE WENT AGAINST THE NORM! HE FOUND A WAY! And, you say, "the fact that an occasional... blind person was able to thru-hike is beside the pt."

THIS IS EXACTLY THE POINT!

Most of us, probably wisely, forego such pleasures, or conclude they would be impossible considering our finances at the time. - Weary

If you were to say, "I currently am not in the position to thru-hike or I have yet to find a solution that other people have already discovered or after careful thought I'm planning on thru-hiking when my children are older or when I'm in better financial shape, etc I could buy that, but instead you have decided to demean/lower the value of others who have accomplished that which you have not because you have smacked right into the insurmountable wall of "impossibility."

I'm going to repeat what I said earlier. Thru-hiking and taking care of your family at the same time is a possibility! People do it! I know people who have done it! It DOES NOT have to be an either/or proposition! If it is your dream to thru-hike THERE IS A WAY TO RESPONSIBLY CARE FOR YOUR FAMILY AND THRU-HIKE AT THE SAME TIME! YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH TWO DREAMS AT THE SAME TIME - TAKE CARE OF THE FAMILY AND THRU-HIKE!

[Danielsen]

Much as I agree with a lot of the intent behind your posts, I don't think I've seen any posts recently saying you absolutely can't take care of your family and thru-hike in the last few pages, just that most people would rather not, either for practical reasons or because that's just not how they want to do their hikes or because in some cases it might be irresponsible (depending, of course, on the family status), y'know? The fact that some have done it (and other extraordinary things) doesn't mean everyone should. For most in less-thru-hike-conducive situations the extraordinary lengths they'd have to go to to make it work in their situation just aren't worth it as opposed to just putting off the thru until a more feasible point in their life or contenting themselves with sectioning. And there's nothing wrong with that.

[BostonPro]

When you have children, a lot of times you have to pay for the necessities over hobbies. Unfortunately, your savings can all be thrown down the drain over an unexpected disaster as a family. I understand living frugally but in the end it comes down to things occuring- aka life.