Training Dogs for the Trail

[saimyoji]

We've seen all the different opinions on having dogs on the trail. I've suggested that dogs and owners must be trained. Some have replied that they have trained dogs for use on the trail. Maybe we could get some info up here about exactly what training dogs need, how to do it successfully and advice for these people while hiking with their four-legged companions.

I'm not a dog owner and know nothing about training dogs, just thought it might be better to educate these people, rather than just whine about their behavior.

[snarbles]

I live hear in Houston and we go to an expert trainer near where I live. Place is called My Dog and Me There not cheap, but you get what pay for. Overall they are focusing more on training the owner over the dog.....that's the hard part. It takes alot of time, energy, and dedication to do it correctly.

[Bloodroot]

Saimyoji-

I also agree that the owner must be trained as well as the dog (I actually quoted this in "Dog Poll" thread).

Here's is my reasoning though-

I was primarily placing the emphasis of your quote on the owner. The owner needs to respect all the things I mentioned. He is the liability, not the dog.

If the owner sends the dog off for training, obiediance school, etc., that's the owner's choice. But I feel these simple rules can be followed without sending the dog off to training. These are the simple things that an owner can train a dog with "time, energy, and dedication" on their own time.

[Panama Red]

this may be off topic but i have found the best way to train a dog to wear a pack and hike is to set him up with a back pack full of cold beer and call him when your thirsty, wait are we talking about being a hiker or a waiter?

[FatMan]

I am in the process of training my pup, Cooper, for the trail.

We, of course, are doing the obedience training thing but that doesn't do much for the trail. The way to train your dog for the trail is to start young and spend lots of time on the trail training him. You can't train a trail dog from home. You have to have the distractions common to the trail.

Not a week goes by where Cooper is not on some sort of trail for work. In fact we just got back from a 6 mile hike on the trail around Stone Mountain. Lots of people, water, other dogs, squirrels, and other distractions. It is a great place for training.

But you also have to train for terrain. The dog needs to be develop trail legs (trail feet toughness) just as we do. We get out to the mountains about every other week or so.

Cooper is being trained "on leash" and "off leash". He currently is doing well with both. I've read the posts saying dogs need to be leashed 100% of the time. That is not reality. In fact, in many places it is simply dangerous. Tough terrain requires both the dog and the owner to be free of restaints. A trail dog knows how to behave off leash. BTW, most trails have no leash requirement. I'm not saying that is bad or good. Just stating fact. The majority of the AT has no leash requirement as well.

There are no magic wands for training a trail dog. It takes time, patience, and more time. Cooper is now 7 months old and has probably hiked a couple hundred miles of trails. He has overnighted at several public campgrounds but not yet on the trail. That will begin in the spring. By the time he is 18 months old I expect him to be a pro. I can assure all the naysayers that they will not have to worry about this pup.

I encourage anyone who has an interest in hiking with their dog to take it very seriously. It is not a "we'll figure it out as we go" process. That is not fair to the dog and certainly not fair to other hikers. The woods are a great place for dogs, but can be overwhelming to an unaclimated dog. Take it slow and do it right, or don't do it at all.

[Tractor]

Fatman. I like your attitude about all this. I wish more hikers, those here and not, had the same outlook and dedication. Best of luck with Cooper.

[saimyoji]

Bloodroot: We agree on this point. I just thought instead of the typical complaining, threatening and name-calling on this subject that we could try to be proactive and productive. So many threads get great input: food, gear, health issues...why not something for dog owners.

Perhaps I'm being naive. I guess if dog owners wanted that kind of info/advice they'd speak up and ask for it.

[Blue Jay]

I'm not a dog owner and know nothing about training dogs, just thought it might be better to educate these people, rather than just whine about their behavior.

You whine about beer, others wine about dogs.

[minnesotasmith]

"I've read the posts saying dogs need to be leashed 100% of the time. That is not reality. In fact, in many places it is simply dangerous. Tough terrain requires both the dog and the owner to be free of restaints. A trail dog knows how to behave off leash."

Then, find out in advance what sections of the Trail are that way, and don't bring your dog along on those sections you are not going be able to manage the complexity of hooking a leash to your dog, and holding onto the leash. Your problems/convenience do not constitute justification for exposing innocent strangers to a loose dog.

[weary]

....There are no magic wands for training a trail dog. It takes time, patience, and more time. Cooper is now 7 months old and has probably hiked a couple hundred miles of trails. He has overnighted at several public campgrounds but not yet on the trail. That will begin in the spring. By the time he is 18 months old I expect him to be a pro. I can assure all the naysayers that they will not have to worry about this pup.

Now tell us about all those people 7-month-old Cooper has met during his 200 trail miles of training.

Weary

[FatMan]

Then, find out in advance what sections of the Trail are that way, and don't bring your dog along on those sections you are not going be able to manage the complexity of hooking a leash to your dog, and holding onto the leash. Your problems/convenience do not constitute justification for exposing innocent strangers to a loose dog.

I am very aware of where leash requirements exist and follow the rule 100%. I might suggest to you to avoid trails where dogs are not required to be leashed so you will not be exposed to a loose dog. Too bad you do not set the rules. All the trails in your home state in the National Forests have no leash requirement. Instead of your rediculous babling on the topic, if you feel so strong about it get the rules changed. Until you get the rules changed it is my right to hike with my dog off leash under verbal control where I deem necessary. The fact is I keep my dog on leash 98% of the time. In the meantime, if you can't accept that stick to the State Park trails where all dogs are required on leash.

Now tell us about all those people 7-month-old Cooper has met during his 200 trail miles of training.

I say with complete confidence not a single person would have a bad thing to say about Cooper. In fact, perfect strangers who I've stopped and talked with give him good marks.

BTW, this thread was supposed to be about training dogs and dog owners. Don't you naysayers have enough other threads about all the terrible dogs on the trail to post on. Oh, I know, you just can't help yourselves. Just more of the out of control hikers that I often speak of.

[minnesotasmith]

"I am very aware of where leash requirements exist and follow the rule 100%. I might suggest to you to avoid trails where dogs are not required to be leashed so you will not be exposed to a loose dog. Too bad you do not set the rules. All the trails in your home state in the National Forests have no leash requirement."

There aren't any posted rules on the AT saying that it's not OK to let your dog shake off wet inside shelters on other hikers and their gear, knock over people's food, bite them, etc., so in your world, that's allowed, then? You probably think that a shrug, a smile, and continuing on down the Trail (instead of paying for the damages, apologizing, and getting your &%* mutt the Hades off the Trail right then) would be the appropriate action afterwards, too.

"Just more of the out of control hikers that I often speak of."

No, it's about the out-of-control (off-leash) dogs that grossly selfish insensible-to-the-idea-that-other-people-have-rights-too dogowners let loose on the Trail that's the issue. Apparently, you are one of them.

[FatMan]

Hey MS


If you would read what others post on this forum instead of just running your mouth all the time you would already know that I feel dogs should be banned from all shelters.

And there are laws in this country about dog owner's liability for dog bites and damage to other's personal property. In fact if my dog were to ever damage anyones personal property I would definately make restitution. If my dog ever bit anyone without cause I would make restitution and put him down.

I am a strong proponent of owner responsibility for their dog's actions. Whether walking down the street or hiking on the trail it is the owner's sole responsibilty to see that their dog behaves properly and does not endanger any property or person.

Your post directly attacking me is very un-informed and without merit. Just another case of your diarrhea of the mouth that you have become known by on this forum.

I'm done wasting my time with you and your off topic rants. I'll keep my future posts on this thread on topic.

[minnesotasmith]

I'll retract most of what I said against you on this thread. However, why won't you restrict where you take your dog outdoors either to A) your own property, B) away from hiking trails, or C) where you can keep him leashed? Having a dog off-leash is an experiment (no matter how many times you have done it successfully) that other people have not consented to be part of. It just seems unreasonably selfish and insensitive IMO to do so, the animal ownership equivalent of the opposite of LNT.

[Seraphim]

Damn, MS! Haven't you ever needed a bit of warmth in one of those cold shelter moments! Have a heart-I've never met a dog on the trail that was bloodthirsty or rabid, and until I do, I think I'll be alright. Grumpy hikers are worse than an annoying dog. I, probably like every other hiker, think that trail dogs should take after their (hopefully respectable) owner, be quiet and stay put when everyone's trying to eat or sleep! I have seen hikers get bitten, but because of their stupidity.

I have also hiked with a very energetic dog that didn't belong to me. At the beginnning, her seemingly-ceaseless motion and misbehaviours had me uneasy about having her in the mix of everyday hiking. By katahdin, I would've fought for Kaya... She added so much to every day, cleaned our pots, watched our backs, gave us entertainment and extra exercise... and not to mention LOVE! She was part of our family, and in the wilderness, it just wasn't the same without her.

Anyhow, all I am trying to say is that hiking with a dog is quite rewarding and refreshing when done correctly. No trail dog is on a leash 90% of the time, it's more like 9%= road crossings, town and parks. But before coming on the trail, the dog needs to prove it can handle being free of constraint. It needs to get accustomed to seeing tons of strangers, smelling tons of other animals, sleeping outside, walking all day and sleeping all night. It is all vital to EVERYONEs hike, and completely up to the owner. Trail dogs need to be loved, nutured and learned, well-fed and well-trained. THEY'RE THRU-HIKERS TOO! But, if the dog can't respect other hikers, it should not be on the trail. So, MS and fellow hikers, if you had a bad experience with a dog on the trail, don't get mad at the animal, get mad at the human. Because a dog cannot help curiosity, especially if that is all it has ever known.

[Valmet]

Most dogs I have come across on the trail are a pain. I do not like out of control dogs. But I do realize that it is their owners fault. I do know that a dog is just responding to how they were raised. But that being said I finally came across a dog that was trained and perfect. I was on a section south of Blood Mountain in Ga and there came a dog down the trail in front of his master about 50 feet. He said sit and the dog instantly sat down. He put his hand on top of his head and waited for me to come up. The dog was wagging his tail. I stopped and told him what a well behaved dog he had. He said he can't stand dogs that run wild and he had his trained to obey his commands. He said shake and the dog held out his paw. I shook the paw and he just kept wagging his tail. As I left his owner said let's go and the dog trotted just in front of him. Now this owner and dog was a real role model for hiking with an animal. If they were all like this I would saw bring Fido along.

[FatMan]

Tips on training your dog for the Trail. This is not all-inclusive but some highlights.

1. Your dog must know that different behaviors are expected when hiking. So you must have a signal that the different behaviors are expected. When I put a harness / pack on my dog he knows we are going hiking. He only wears the harness / pack on the trail.

2. You need some special commands for the trail to avoid confusion for your dog. The two I use most are "Hike" and "Halt".

Hiking is different than walking. When dogs are trained for walks they are taught to stay at the owner's left side. That is not possible on the trail. The best is for the dog to walk 7' - 12' in front of the owner on a retractable leash, or if hiking with another for the dog to stay between the two. The dog should never be out of site and he will be able to tell how far ahead he is with his hearing. The command "Hike" lets the dog know to move forward from my side to the hiking behavior.

"Halt" is a special command that eventually will become a sight command. As soon a hiker approaches the dog is given the command. Upon the command the dog is to stop, and turn back to me. Over time the verbal is not necessary as the dog will exhibit the behavior upon sight of another hiker. "Wait" Is a different command that requires the dog to stop and then I come to him. I rarely use it on the trail as I usually want the dog to stop and return to me.

3. Training is a Praise and Reward process. While training you have to find places to perform the expected behaviors over and over again in five minute sessions. During a day hike you should have about 10 of these sessions each time. Every time you get the behavior expected be sure to "Praise and Reward(food treats).

4. All command training must take place "on leash". It is only after your dog exhibits instant recognition to verbal and sight commands that you move to the same training "off leash". If your dog does not perform "off leash" as expected don't punish, just don't praise or reward. Just stop and move on and
try again in ten or fifteen minutes.

5. When hiking with your dog try to read the other hikers. It's not hard to tell dog friend or foe by body language. If your dog is properly trained his only exposure to strangers will be on leash as he has returned to you upon sight of the on coming hiker. With my dog I always yield to other hikers. Upon stopping my dog is given a sight command to sit. I shorten the leash and allow them to pass. If the oncoming hikers stop to talk or show an interest in my dog, I announce "He is friendly and you can pet him if you wish". In either situation the dog is always praised for correct behavior.
6.Train you dog as a puppy. The most difficult behavior to correct is "chasing". It is instinct and instinctive behavior is toughest to change. You can only train this in areas where critters are common. I fortunately have tons of squirrels in my yard and we worked on this daily for weeks on end. You have to make not chasing a greater thrill than chasing. I keep a small squeaky toy in my pocket and when he makes a move towards the squirrel I pull it out and we play. I make playing with me more fun than chasing the squirrels. And of course a treat.

7. Recognize that your dog will do things that no training will change. For example, if your dog feels you are being threatened by others he will growl. For some reason they find certain people offensive, I suppose just like some people find dogs offensive. Just understand this will happen. Just move on.

8. And lastly, you have chosen to hike with your dog. Others have not done the same. If hiking with a dog it is your responsibility to avoid contact with other hikers. That means no shelters and hiking by yourself. If you want human contact on the trail leave your dog at home. However, with a well trained dog some hikers may adopt your dog. If that is the case feel free to hike with the adopters, but again....not in shelters. Pitch a tent and keep your dog away.

As I stated earlier in the thread, this takes time, patience, and more time. If you're not going to do it right, don't do it. Your untrained dog only causes headaches for me (see posts above), just as out of control hikers in trail towns cause headaches for all of us.

Happy Hiking and bring your well trained Fido along.

[Jack Tarlin]

I think it's wonderful that there are folks out there who realize how important it is that their dog is well-trained before they take it on the Trail.

That being said, after thinking about this a long time, and after having seen and interacted with scores of dogs and their owners on the A.T., it is my considered opionion that if you truly care about what's best for your pet, and if you truly care about the consideration of the hundreds of other folks that you'll be sharing the Trail with on a long hike, then the single most significant choice you can make regarding your dog is to leave it at home.

[Ridge]

A very very small percentage of dog hikers ever complete a thru hike as started. Every one of the hikers I've known personally who did start a long hike with a dog eventually had to have someone pick the dog up somewhere along the trail. The dog usually being injured. I consider those who hike with dogs are just out to walk the dog, mess up shelters and the trail, and are just not serious thru hikers. Dogs are not trail or wildlife friendly, so leave fido at home and save it the injuries it probably will incur.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>

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[RU98A]

Why don't ya just leave little ole poochie at home and save the other hikers from stepping in stinking dog poop and having dogs piss on their packs and in shelters where ya have to smell dog piss while trying to rest? Or jumping all over you while you are trying to eat a meal.