Will the A.T. ever be limited?

[brian2o0o]

How does your adviser like your dissertation?

[brian2o0o]

I am new to hiking, but from my perspective it seems the A.T. is heavily overused. I have been looking at pictures of the trail posted by fellow users here and a fair amount of them show damaged lands, garbage, etc.

It seems the A.T. takes a heavy beating from people!. I am planning a thru-hike in 2012, and I am worrying what damage I will see. I really do not want to hike a overused and damaged trail, and what Backpacker magazine has said worries me! ( A few issues ago )

It has forced me to think about the future of the A.T., and possible solutions.


1: Limit the number of people allowed to hike the entire A.T. each year.

1a: Stagger the release of hikers from the start. For example, allow only 20 to leave one day, 10 the next, 0 the third, 20 the next, etc.. which fits with my next suggestion.

2: Require thru-hikers to purchase a National Trail tag of some sort, say starting at $250. ( this will keep many of the crazies and undesirables off the trail as well if strictly enforced )

3: Every 5rd year, close the entire trail for 2 years to all traffic both day and thru hikers, to allow nature to recover itself. This will also allow major repairs to the trails to take place, shelters, water, etc.

I have more ideas I want to share but I am still working on them. I sent the above ideas to my State and Federal representatives for them to consider, and as I get more involved in the A.T. I hope to one day take the trail to the next level, without further damaging the trail.

Also note the National Trail Tag can be 'loaded' up to allow access to all of the National Trails, and you would be able to buy access on a per year basis, or a lifetime access. The only issue with this is that it has to be totally assured legally that 100% of the proceeds from these sales go directly to the benefit of the A.T. and/or the other trails one can load the card up with.

For example, if one pays for a lifetime access to the CDT, those funds can ONLY be used for the direct benefit of the CDT. Nothing else!

What do you all think? I know that these ideas are strange and some directly go against what the A.T. is about, but something needs to be done to save the trail for future generations, and heck, even improve it!

Oops forgot the quote button.......

How does your adviser like your dissertation?

[Pedaling Fool]

Many of our "hobbies and recreation" are visiting National Parks. I'd say that the government's running the "nitty gritty" of National Parks is damned good, much better than any alternative. Or do you want Yellowstone contracted to Disney?

Were it not for Federal involvement through the Trails' acts of 1968 and 1978, it's likely at least a quarter of the AT would be on roads. Going further back, the early efforts of the Federal government in establishing not only the first National Parks e.g. Yellowstone, Yosemite, Sequoia but also the National Forests (established as multi-use) ensured sufficient tracts of land for recreation including hiking trails. In particular, the Weeks Act created National Forests in the East. The AT would not exist today without this federal legislation.

Re. more "nitty gritty" vis-a-vis the AT, the NPS's AT National Program Office has worked hand-in-hand with the ATC and local clubs for over 30 years on planning trail routes and re-routes. Funding for corridor acquisition has come from the federal Land & Water Conservation Fund.

Re. development, it's obviously the most important issue facing the trail; the OP is hardly the original first thinker on this subject. And it's not like the ATC is clueless here. They've identified the most vulnerable areas, they're engaged with the local communities in promoting the Trail and its assets. As much as they can do, there are limits; IMO federal funding will ultimately be necessary to continue keeping the Trail a natural experience.

Those are all big picture things. And yes the federal government does a pretty good job. Afterall a federal worker is no different than anyone else, I know because I was one for 23 years -- and to some extent they still own my ass.

When I say nitty gritty I’m talking about it getting political, i.e. politicians getting involved and that would happen with some of the suggestions the OP has put forth – especially the tagging thing.


Frankly, I’m not worried about it, I don’t see a problem with the trail getting political, so all-in-all this is a non-issue. And the tagging thing did strike a nerve, but I’m not worried one bit about the issue - I'm not the type that sees any black helicopters on the horizon.


Major issue is encroachment, that’s what I want the ATC and various clubs focused on; that’s why we give our money to these organizations and get involved in other ways, including sending a letter to our Representative/Senator(s).

[Luddite]

Government is NOT 'evil'. We are ALL the 'government'. The government is all of us. The government is directly responsible for giving us the A.T.

We are all not the government, and If the Appalachian trail did not exist, it would be necessary to invent it.

[Pedaling Fool]

We are all not the government, and If the Appalachian trail did not exist, it would be necessary to invent it.

Actually I agree with the op on us all being the govt. We need to keep active and vote, not just in the ballot, but with our wallets. Furthermore, when you see something wrong write a letter.

If we are not the govt, than that means we're mere subjects. Maybe you should read some history.

[Blue Jay]

If we are not the govt, than that means we're mere subjects. Maybe you should read some history.

According to history, we are mere subjects. The fact that there are multiple kings does not change that.

[Cookerhiker]

Those are all big picture things. And yes the federal government does a pretty good job. Afterall a federal worker is no different than anyone else, I know because I was one for 23 years -- and to some extent they still own my ass.

When I say nitty gritty I’m talking about it getting political, i.e. politicians getting involved and that would happen with some of the suggestions the OP has put forth – especially the tagging thing.


Frankly, I’m not worried about it, I don’t see a problem with the trail getting political, so all-in-all this is a non-issue. And the tagging thing did strike a nerve, but I’m not worried one bit about the issue - I'm not the type that sees any black helicopters on the horizon......

OK John, I think I agree. I thought by nitty-gritty, you meant day-to-day management, hence my examples.

Drawing on my 31 years of Federal experience, I've witnessed how once issues move into what we called "Big P" politics (involving Congress, elected officials, etc. as opposed to Small p politics inherant in any organization), then objectivity, sound analysis, common sense, data-based decision making all went out the window. A sad commentary on things. And this phenomenon BTW transcends any particular political party.

[Pedaling Fool]

According to history, we are mere subjects. The fact that there are multiple kings does not change that.

Two things, read history -- I mean really read it and put yourself there. And look around the world read their newspapers...No one is having a picnic.

I won't post anything else on this topic because I think I see a "log" floating nearby and getting closer.

OK John, I think I agree. I thought by nitty-gritty, you meant day-to-day management, hence my examples.

Drawing on my 31 years of Federal experience, I've witnessed how once issues move into what we called "Big P" politics (involving Congress, elected officials, etc. as opposed to Small p politics inherant in any organization), then objectivity, sound analysis, common sense, data-based decision making all went out the window. A sad commentary on things. And this phenomenon BTW transcends any particular political party.

Yeah, we're on the same page.

[mweinstone]

dumb thread.
now approching boring
releasing thread toxins.....
now.

[buzzamania]

I respect the years and miles of all of those that have commented, and although I don't agree with the idea presented I am disappointed that my friendly hiker community would be so nasty to this newb. Ideas are ideas. Shoot them down with reasons and ideas and counterpoints, no need to be so tough. Make this a welcome place. I love the well worn nature of the trail. When you want to cover 12+ miles you don't want to wade through dewey weeds all day. I don't worry about the crowds at all, partially because I love the trail and its people but also because I hang each night and don't stay close to shelters.

[WisconsinHiker2011]

How does your adviser like your dissertation?

This has nothing to do with school. I have been out of school for several years, so your assumption is wrong.

This is about future proofing the A.T. so people in 125 years can hike the trail in a better shape than it is now, with a much larger buffer zone for it's entire length than we have now.

Unlike most, I do not work towards results that I will see in my lifetime. I think on a longer time scale than that.

[WalkinHome]

This has nothing to do with school. I have been out of school for several years, so your assumption is wrong.

This is about future proofing the A.T. so people in 125 years can hike the trail in a better shape than it is now, with a much larger buffer zone for it's entire length than we have now.

Unlike most, I do not work towards results that I will see in my lifetime. I think on a longer time scale than that.

The maintaining clubs and the ATC are all working towards the goal of adding more "buffer" to the A.T. corridor. We may be the tortoise but we have and continue to make progress in this area. Except for fees and regulation, your ideas make sense but it takes more than a letter writing campaign. Money and boots on the ground is what it is all about. Groups that have gone off on their own, i.e. www.matlt.org (MATLT) are doing their best to acquire lands.

So, let's get on with it. You have talked the talk, now walk the walk.

[Pedaling Fool]

This has nothing to do with school. I have been out of school for several years, so your assumption is wrong.

This is about future proofing the A.T. so people in 125 years can hike the trail in a better shape than it is now, with a much larger buffer zone for it's entire length than we have now.

Unlike most, I do not work towards results that I will see in my lifetime. I think on a longer time scale than that.

I agree with looking at things with a longterm vision, but 125 years. No, not even 50 years.

You're talking about a timeframe where technology will be unimaginably advanced, we're talking space colonies during that time.

I know everybody now thinks I'm a moron, or maybe they came to that conclusion long ago

But seriously, look at our history. We have people living before the airplane came about and look at what we can now do and that's not to include the technology we don't know about.

[DVNDSN]

This is about future proofing the A.T. so people in 125 years can hike the trail in a better shape than it is now, with a much larger buffer zone for it's entire length than we have now.

Actually, I bet in 125 years, they will have technology that literally zaps our skin off or something like that. It won't even hurt. Crazy stuff. Weird stuff. That's how we'll get in better shape! The only need for the A.T. will be to enjoy creation. Kind of like it is now. How it should be!

[sixguns01]

I respect the years and miles of all of those that have commented, and although I don't agree with the idea presented I am disappointed that my friendly hiker community would be so nasty to this newb. Ideas are ideas. Shoot them down with reasons and ideas and counterpoints, no need to be so tough. Make this a welcome place. I love the well worn nature of the trail. When you want to cover 12+ miles you don't want to wade through dewey weeds all day. I don't worry about the crowds at all, partially because I love the trail and its people but also because I hang each night and don't stay close to shelters.

I understand your disappointment but are you surprised by it?

[WisconsinHiker2011]

Do not worry about the hostility towards myself, it does not faze me one bit. My close to 20 years online has conditioned me to the point where I ignore and block out interference like that.

I focus in on only the positive and only civil discussion. All the rest is just a result of someone choosing to waste calories in typing up a hateful response.

[Ontiora]

Making some serious repairs to the trail I could definitely see, but closing it even for a brief period I cannot.

[Cookerhiker]

Do not worry about the hostility towards myself, it does not faze me one bit. My close to 20 years online has conditioned me to the point where I ignore and block out interference like that.

I focus in on only the positive and only civil discussion. All the rest is just a result of someone choosing to waste calories in typing up a hateful response.

OK here's what I hope you'll accept as "civil discussion."

I think you have some valid ideas and moreover I applaud your concern for the AT's future, a concern that many of us AT users also share and have expressed ourselves on WB and elsewhere.

After re-reading the entire thread and your posts, my biggest concern is I don't see any mention by you of the most important and relevant organization to the Appalachian Trail. I'm talking about the ATC. Instead it looks like you've developed your ideas and taken them right to your Congressional delegation. You made a specific point that doing so is your "right" and of course, that's correct.

But I advise you to join the ATC plus a local club or two and work through them to advance your ideas. It's fine to research on-line and thoughtfully contemplate what should be done and write papers but to convert such efforts into accomplishment, you need to work with others. Now I hope I'm wrong - I'm only giving my take based on your posts (along with your avatar and signature line) but you come across as a go-it-alone type who created this thread not for 360 degree advice and feedback but just to boast how bright and visionary you are. Well in a roomful of people, you may be the smartest guy in the room but the collective wisdom of all the others exceeds your's.

There are limits to what you can learn from on-line research. Others on this thread including me have already stated ad nauseam that you need to see parts of the Trail for yourself, you need to talk to people grounded in the Trail's daily management. But beyond that, I encourage you to engage with ATC staff to share your ideas and learn from them the strategic direction the Conservancy is taking. You can also learn about their ongoing projects for long-range Trail protection and the issues & hurdles - how they address fiscal restraints, approaches for dealing with local communities, working with the Naional Park Service, National Forest Service, Congress, state governments. There are a lot of angles and considerations of which you may not be aware.

You're intelligent, you're passionate, you care, your extensive research has given you a lot of information. That's all good. But I entreat you to learn more and especially think very carefully before you go off writing to Congressmen.

[TheTwanger]

Wow... Hypothetical future dystopian Appalachian Trail theories... While they stem from a real concern, why don't we focus our energy not on insane hypothetical future solutions, but on encouraging the cleaning and care taking of the trail today.

"2: Require thru-hikers to purchase a National Trail tag of some sort, say starting at $250. ( this will keep many of the crazies and undesirables off the trail as well if strictly enforced )"
- Honestly this idea disgusts me.... I don't know what else to say about it...Hey let's charge unreasonable amounts of money for people to use the "Peoples Trail", because the poor are crazy and undesirable of course... Imagine what the enforcement of this would mean... Fail

[fiddlehead]

Since everything is either about money or safety in todays world, I predict that trail crews will have to be funded even when they are all volunteers.
Law suits will make it so.
Insurance companies will insist on it (because the money will most likely go to them)

So, money will be collected somehow to pay for the trail, it's upkeep, it's protection, it's lawsuits.

Remember, the trail is only a little more than 50 years old now.
Look at how much it has grown in depth (literally), pollution, parking spaces needed, Shelter size, regulations, handicap accessibility, bridges constructed, etc etc etc.

We're talking about 50 years in the future here.
Some changes are going to be inevitable.
Permits will be one of them. (expensive ones perhaps)