Protecting yourself from people

[randyg45]

On the other hand, however, almost all 80+ year-old mothers, wives, and daughters, manage to live out their lives without ever firing a shot in anger -- even in those bad, crime-razed cities, or while walking on volunteer-built, quiet woodland trails.

Absolutely true.
In a related sense, I have driven over 1,250,000 miles without an accident.
I carry truck insurance.
I don't think I have ever had a cargo claim.
I carry load insurance.
I have never died, or fired a shot in anger outside a combat zone.
I carry life insurance, one form of which holds 5 rounds of .22 WRM and weighs less than 8 ounces.

[randyg45]

I am absolutely confident in my judgement to err on the side of caution when it comes to the use of a firearm.
Those who lack that confidence should not carry.

[randyg45]

Excellent post imo. Some migh add "white" and "large".

[weary]

Weary, were you beat as a child?

Well, at the age of 11, I competed in a three mile race -- and finished last. I also rarely won wrestling matches. That's why I took up hiking and learning to identify creatures and plants in the woods. It was less embarrassing.

Most of my old buddies are now dead, but I seem to keep going, though as I was looking through the list of hikes for the ATC biennial conference in July, I noticed I paid special attention to those identified as E(asy).

BTW. What does getting beat as a child have to do with carrying? My message on that issue is pretty much the same as everyone else. Know the real dangers and know how to use whatever tools you carry. I do suggest that your right to defend yourself is not always as broad as some seem to suggest.

[LordoftheWings]

@ Thatguy, I absolutely agree with you. I'm obviously a pro-gun advocate, but it's those situations that scare me the most. The unsafe and uneducated having possession of deadly consequences. I applaud you for looking out for your safety as well as hers(and everyone elses). I wish her thoughtful Uncle was caring enough to teach her proper safety and usage. A painted squirt gun would have been a lighter and safer option for "show" gun.

@ Weary, I know that people can sometimes play Devil's Advocate and suggest opposite trains of thought for the purpose of debate or discussion. I welcome it.
It would just seem, to me at least that your postings about this subject are driven by fear, and are slightly scary to me to be honest. I just envision you to be like the kid that was always picked on in school and beaten by his parental guardians. As far as the sports things go, I'm sorry it didn't work out well for you. I applaud you for trying to make it work and being involved. It isn't always about winning. Having the guts to do the races and wrestle is commendable.
I just don't see where statements like "firing a shot in anger" or the case of the idiot that shot the two "thugs" is truly relevant. We don't have to agree on this or any other subject. I'm just trying to see your points without raising my eyebrows and shaking my head (empty as it might be) in confusion.

As far as you suggesting our rights aren't as broad as some seem to suggest, I would like you to elaborate a little. I'm sure things would be different if I were King.

[Mongoose2]

It would just seem, to me at least that your postings about this subject are driven by fear, and are slightly scary to me to be honest. I just envision you to be like the kid that was always picked on in school and beaten by his parental guardians. As far as the sports things go, I'm sorry it didn't work out well for you.

LOTR: why you would post some crap like this is beyond me. It's really over the top to suggest that. Although I am a big supporter of 2nd amend rights, Weary has some valid and well stated points.

[sheepdog]

better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6

Not if your "gut" results in you killing an innocent person. Or in the case in Maine, where a mistaken belief that a shove and a tresspass by a couple of punks, allows you to shoot them to death.

If you're tried by 12 you are alive.

If you're carried by six, you are dead.

Alive is beter IMO.

[weary]

If you're tried by 12 you are alive.

If you're carried by six, you are dead.

Alive is better IMO.

Well we all have our different perspectives. But I'd rather be dead than to discover my actions had resulted in the death of an innocent person because I had relied on my "gut" or instincts in an ambiguous situation.

We can all imagine scenarios where a weapon would be helpful. But as near as I can tell from this and other discussions, no one has ever reported that anything like those imagined scenarios have happened in the real trail world.

The problem, as I've said, is that unless someone tells you in advance that they intend to harm you, the assailant always has an overwhelming advantage.

Talk of following your "gut instincts" really worries me. Eccentric people abound on trails. Let's face it. Most dedicated long distance hikers are on the weird side. I sense occasional nervousness on the part of other hikers when I hike -- an old bearded backpacker, carrying decades old tattered gear.

Even my stories are weird. I made the mistake once of telling people camped in the Mahoosucs that when I walk the area I sort of think of the 40,000 acres Mahoosuc Preserve as mine. I first wrote the stories about 400,000 acres that Maine preserved starting in 1820 and then forgot what it had done. The Mahoosucs became publicly owned as a result. Come on what could be weirder than that. Apparently no one at the shelter was armed, because no weapons were drawn.

[LordoftheWings]

@ Weary-OK, I can totally respect that logic. I can also also agree that 99.9% of the time a firearm wouldn't be needed on the trail. Eccentric people don't bother me. I welcome the difference. It can be said as well that trusting ones gut instincts can be a bad idea. When someone is pushed into the "red" zone they revert to training and instinct. The triggers for "Red" zone can be any number of stessors, being attacked, lost, hypo/hyperthermia, malnutrition, loss of a loved one, accident ect.ect. If someone hasn't been trained for the appropriate reaction, trusting or reverting to an instinctual habit can be negative for sure.
Taking pride and ownership of ones loved places/things is by no means alarming to me. If you were to tell me that story at a shelter I would think, "Awesome, here's a guy that really loves this section of the trail and feels like it's home turf"
Now if you had said, "Hey Wings, I just cut the throats of 3 helpless Nuns walking the trail about 2 miles back. Could you help me carry their body's to the shallow grave at the side of the railroad track?" If I wear carrying, I'd probably be slowly reaching in my pack.
Thank you for clarifying.

@ Mongoose2- It's LOTW. I love Tolkien's work but I love wings more.
Both of my parents were abused children. In dealing with them and their fears/concerns throughout the years I have had a hard time understanding their ways of trying to communicate with me. I got the very same feeling with some of Weary's statements.
It's also a common statement in West Central Florida to say, "You were an abused child, weren't you?" When someone says something you don't understand or don't agree with.

Thanks again Weary for the clarification.

[John B]

... "Hey Wings, I just cut the throats of 3 helpless Nuns walking the trail about 2 miles back. Could you help me carry their body's to the shallow grave at the side of the railroad track?" If I wear carrying, I'd probably be slowly reaching in my pack.
Thank you for clarifying.
...

Do you spend much time thinking about and preparing for this type of contingency?

[rickb]

I carry life insurance, one form of which holds 5 rounds of .22 WRM and weighs less than 8 ounces.

To me that caliber of insurance is like $10,000 policies they sell on TV to cover the cost of a funeral.

Me thinks that if you are going to buy a policy, you need more coverage!

[LordoftheWings]

@ Mongoose2-Your previous statement was to imply that your disapproved of my comments. It's O.K. if you do. I'm a very open and honest person and there isn't much that I won't talk about. I wish to understand people and their thoughts so that I might get some insight that I might have missed otherwise. My methods and dialog may not be the same as yours, but I will try to accommodate you if you have a specific question.

[LordoftheWings]

@ John B, absolutely not, just a very vivid imagination and disturbing sense of humor

[Lone Wolf]

i'll be packin' when i leave springer soon

[Rambler1]

Is that so you can shoot the hippies ?
I hear they don't carry so should be easy shootings...

[rainmaker]

Moderator, has this discussion not run its course?

[Skidsteer]

Thank you Mrs. Grundy.

[weary]

i'll be packin' when i leave springer soon

What changed your mind? You've said in the past that you didn't carry on the AT because it wasn't necessary..

[randyg45]

To me that caliber of insurance is like $10,000 policies they sell on TV to cover the cost of a funeral.

Me thinks that if you are going to buy a policy, you need more coverage!

Lol. .22WRM actually has more kinetic energy than a .38 Spl (than a standard, i.e. not +P, .38 Spl). The solids have unreal penetration; HPs make a real mess in groundhogs.... The range of the average shot fired by on-duty police officer is about 7 feet. I like my little peashooter as far as caliber. The five rounds are a little sketchy.

For, uh, formal dances I have a heavily customized Colt 1911A1, Galco shoulder rig with mag holders, etc etc. The NAA Black Widow is just something to put in my pocket in the woods.

[Tuckahoe]

I have a heavily customized Colt 1911A1.

Well... lets see it!