WhiteBlaze Pages 2024
A Complete Appalachian Trail Guidebook.
AVAILABLE NOW. $4 for interactive PDF(smartphone version)
Read more here WhiteBlaze Pages Store

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 48
  1. #21

    Default

    I tried the latte dessert recipe. I improvised a bit by substituting some things I had for stuff I didn't:

    1 Tablespoon gelatin
    1 tube of Taster's Choice
    1 packet of Great Start hot cocoa
    1 can evaporated skim milk.

    I followed the original directions, and I thought it was very good. The opinion at my house, though, split along a male/female line. The women really liked it; the men not as much. Ah well.

    I'm going to try changing it up some more by changing out the cocoa and the coffee. I may also try adding a little cinnamon for a Mexican chocolate flavor.
    Last edited by Farr Away; 03-08-2011 at 11:54. Reason: grammar

  2. #22

    Default

    I like your ideas! Yeah, I loved it...the husband was..."you are weird"
    Trail Cooking/FBC, Recipes, Gear and Beyond:
    Trail Cooking

  3. #23

    Default

    Had another idea last night while mixing up a new batch. That batch had a Mexican hot cocoa packet. If I make it again, I will likely leave out the coffee. The chocolate and cinnamon flavors really didn't need the coffee flavor too.

    New idea: I'm going to try substituting 1 or 2 packets of spiced cider mix for the coffee and cocoa. I think my 7 year old would really like that.

  4. #24
    Registered User
    Join Date
    01-22-2008
    Location
    Kentucky
    Age
    58
    Posts
    1,533
    Journal Entries
    1
    Images
    69

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Farr Away View Post
    I second hot jello as a drink. It was my substitute for coffee/tea when I was carrying my oldest. As a possible side-effect, he was born with a full head of hair.

    -FA
    That made me laugh out loud Thanks
    Take Time to Watch the Trees Dance with The Wind........Then Join In........

  5. #25

    Default

    Ooh, do post how it turns out!
    Trail Cooking/FBC, Recipes, Gear and Beyond:
    Trail Cooking

  6. #26

    Default

    I also did this one:
    http://gazingin.com/2008/10/09/pecan...-the-cupboard/

    I am building a recipe index and came across that one - had forgotten about it!
    Trail Cooking/FBC, Recipes, Gear and Beyond:
    Trail Cooking

  7. #27
    Trail Cooking/FBC, Recipes, Gear and Beyond:
    Trail Cooking

  8. #28
    Registered User LoneRidgeRunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-05-2010
    Location
    Earth, Earth
    Posts
    612
    Images
    36

    Default

    Glad to read this. I had no idea Jello was good for the joints. I been taking Glucosamine with MSM for years and I'm sure it has helped me but it never hurts to add something else to the mix. Garlic is also a good lubricant for the joints and it's also good for the heart and circulatory system.

  9. #29

    Default

    I tried substituting 2 packets of spiced cider mix for the hot cocoa and instant coffee in sarbar's latte dessert recipe. It was okay, but not really all that great. The 7 year old ate it, but he wasn't all that enthused either.

    I really can't think of anything to improve it though. Ah well, back to the original recipe.

  10. #30
    Registered User
    Join Date
    02-27-2011
    Location
    Boston
    Age
    66
    Posts
    90

    Default Glucosamine and knee arthritis, part 1

    Quote Originally Posted by moytoy View Post
    Do you have a link to the studies you mention? After WOO posed the question in the OP I have started my own test on gelatin (knox) and would be interested in reading the studies.
    As a rheumatologist who used to see lots of patients with DJD (I stopped patient care ~ 10 yrs ago) this question was pretty popular, so I tried to do some research into the studies around this. Early on there were a number of relatively small clinical trials showing modest but statistically significant beneficial effects from oral glucosamine, and various injections of related compounds into the joints. Many of these studies were supported by the companies selling these suplements, so you have to be a little cautious in relying on them - there's a well known phenomenon where studies that sjhow a positive effect are much more likely to be poublished than studies that show a negative effect. Statistical significance is defined (usually) as no more than a 5% chance of the results occring due to chance. to oversimplify a bit, this means that if 20 studies of an ineffective therapy are done, 1 of the studies will probably give a positive "statistically significant" result (actually the statistics are different, but i'm over simplfying to make a point).
    Here's a recent metaanalysis of the clincial trials addressing the topic:


    Wandel S, Jüni P, Tendal B, et al.
    Effects of glucosamine, chondroitin,
    or placebo in patients with osteoarthritis of hip or knee: network
    meta-analysis.
    BMJ. 2010;341:c4675.
    Question
    Do glucosamine or chondroitin, alone or in combination, reduce
    joint pain in osteoarthritis of the hip or knee?
    Review scope
    Included studies compared glucosamine sulfate, glucosamine
    hydrochloride, chondroitin sulfate, or a combination of 2 of the
    drugs with each other or placebo and included


    100 patients
    with osteoarthritis of the hip or knee in each treatment group.
    Treatment groups with subtherapeutic drug doses (glucosamine
    <


    1500 mg/d, chondroitin < 800 mg/d) were excluded. Primary

    outcome was pain intensity.
    Review methods
    MEDLINE, EMBASE/Excerpta Medica, CINAHL, and
    Cochrane Controlled Trials Register (all to Jun 2010); Science
    Citation Index (1981 to 2008); conference proceedings; textbooks;
    and reference lists were searched for randomized controlled trials
    (RCTs). Experts were contacted. 10 RCTs (


    n = 3803) met the
    selection criteria (median age 62 y, median 68% women); 8 involved
    the knee joint, 1 the hip joint, and 1 both joints. Duration
    of follow-up ranged from 1 month to 36 months. Data from direct
    and indirect treatment comparisons were combined using Bayesian
    network meta-analysis. Pain was evaluated using different scales,
    combined using effect sizes, and converted to a 10-cm visual
    analogue scale (VAS). A minimal clinically important difference
    between treatments of 0.9 cm was prespecified to facilitate interpretation.
    Pooled effect sizes and corresponding 95% credible
    intervals (CrIs) were estimated from the median and 2.5th and
    97.5th centiles of the posterior distribution.
    Main results
    Meta-analysis showed that glucosamine reduced joint pain intensity
    more than placebo; the difference was not clinically important,
    with an upper 95% CrI limit


    < −0.9 cm (Table). Chondroitin alone
    or combined with glucosamine did not reduce joint pain
    intensity more than placebo (Table).
    Conclusion
    Glucosamine and chondroitin, alone or in combination, do not
    clinically improve joint pain in patients with osteoarthritis of the
    knee or hip.
    Source of funding: Swiss National Science Foundation.
    Drug treatment vs placebo for joint pain in osteoarthritis of the

    knee or hip*
    Drug Number of direct Difference in pain intensity (95%
    comparisons (n) CrI) on 10-cm visual analogue scale†
    Glucosamine 7 (1922)


    0.4 cm (0.7 to 0.1)

    Chondroitin 4 (1860)

    0.3 cm (0.7 to 0.0)
    Glucosamine + chondroitin 1 (630)

    0.5 cm (0.9 to 0.0)
    *CrI = credible interval.
    †Based on data from multiple time points and calculated using network meta-analysis and
    Bayesian random-effects models with minimally informative priors. Negative values indicate a

    benefit for drug treatment.

    I'll put more info into anohter post, as this one's already pretty long...





  11. #31
    Registered User
    Join Date
    02-27-2011
    Location
    Boston
    Age
    66
    Posts
    90

    Default glucosamine and knee arthritis, part 2

    There are many more studies on the topic, and knee arthritis is only 1 of the indications in which glucosamine and other compounds have been tested, but here's another pretty authoritative study on the question, with their conclusions:
    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa052771
    Conclusions

    Glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate alone or in combination did not reduce pain effectively in the overall group of patients with osteoarthritis of the knee. Exploratory analyses suggest that the combination of glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate may be effective in the subgroup of patients with moderate-to-severe knee pain.

    So, what's a hiker to do? there's no evidence of any harm from these compounds used in the manner described, except perhaps some atrophy of the wallet, so if you think it helps you, you may as well keep at it. One shortcoming of big trials like these is that they average in a large number of humans together, and we know that humans are genetically quite heterogeneous. So there could be subsets of people who for whatever reason do benefit from these drugs. If this is only 10% of the total population in the trial, then the benefit could be lost in the noise.

    But, if you really want an effective treatment for your knee arthritis, without suffering from wallet atrophy, walking has been shown to work in study after study, so hiking is probbaly a good thing, at least up to a point. I don't know of any studies that have examined the effect of backpacking on the AT on knee arthritis, and one certainly could imagine that at some points the beneficial effects of exercise might be countered by adverse effects of overdoing a good thing! I have some DJD myself, and I sure feel sore after a long hike, but I'm not going to stop!

  12. #32
    Registered User Wise Old Owl's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-29-2007
    Location
    High up in an old tree
    Posts
    14,444
    Journal Entries
    19
    Images
    17

    Default

    I am happy to post that now I have added Jello to my mix of stuff to eat even small mounts like twice a week- my knee pain has subsided.
    Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

    Woo

  13. #33
    Registered User skybrew's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-28-2010
    Location
    Hampton, NJ
    Age
    73
    Posts
    18

    Default

    My wife and I started 'serious' bicycling a few years ago (30-60 miles/ride) and started using Hammer Nutrition products for longer distance events and recovery from work-outs. I have joint arthritis and have been using Hammer Tissue Rejuvenator (TR) (http://www.hammernutrition.com/produ...avcat=recovery )
    Has it helped? Not sure but it hasn't hurt. Wife swears by their stuff. Real studies have yet to confirm any real benefits of glucosamine/chondroitin but I'll be using TR on this year's thru hike. YMMV, no connection to Hammer, etc...
    Skip/Strider
    NoBo 3/21/11
    "Only that day dawns to which we are awake". HD Thoreau

  14. #34
    Registered User skybrew's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-28-2010
    Location
    Hampton, NJ
    Age
    73
    Posts
    18

    Default

    Thanks Blitz1! Good stuff.
    Skip/Strider
    NoBo 3/21/11
    "Only that day dawns to which we are awake". HD Thoreau

  15. #35

    Default

    Know what jello's made of???
    ad astra per aspera

  16. #36
    Registered User
    Join Date
    05-01-2006
    Location
    Tipp City, Ohio
    Age
    71
    Posts
    401

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moytoy View Post
    After WOO posed the question in the OP I have started my own test on gelatin (knox) and would be interested in reading the studies.
    Nothing about the studies in question but I've started making my own 'bone broth' in hopes of easing some joint pain. I've also become a fan of the book Deep Nutrition by Dr. Shanahan. (quoted in first link)

    http://www.realfooddigest.com/2011/0...-chicken-soup/

    W.A. Price Foundation:
    http://www.westonaprice.org/food-fea...beautiful.html

  17. #37
    Registered User Wise Old Owl's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-29-2007
    Location
    High up in an old tree
    Posts
    14,444
    Journal Entries
    19
    Images
    17

    Default

    blitz1 My wife & I would agree with the study, but I recently got a MRI and other tests to get a injection for the pain (inflammation) and it continued for a month, So why do we feel better after homeopathic remedies?
    Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

    Woo

  18. #38
    Registered User
    Join Date
    02-27-2011
    Location
    Boston
    Age
    66
    Posts
    90

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Old Owl View Post
    blitz1 My wife & I would agree with the study, but I recently got a MRI and other tests to get a injection for the pain (inflammation) and it continued for a month, So why do we feel better after homeopathic remedies?
    You think that having an MD means you know everything?? Seriously, I think we have to give the best advice and make the best decisions with the knowledge we have now, but keep an open mind that we are fundamentally pretty ignorant. When I was in med school the idea that ulcers might be caused by bacteria was held up as an example of the foolishness of the past, since they were now (then) known to be caused by stress and bacteria couldn't live in the stomach anyway. Few decades later along comes helicobacter pylori, now known to be a major cause of ulcers. We used to tech the med students that 80% of what they were taught in med school would turn out to be wrong, but we didn't know which 80%. So you have to keep learning, and be humble enough to be open to new ideas.
    Homeopathy? I don't believe in it. There's no hard scientific evidence for it. But plenty of my patients believed in it and I didn't try to dissuade them. It's harmless, and if it works better than other treatments, keep at it!
    one final point - in most clinical trials of new arthritis treatments there's about a 30% response to placebo. In fact, a lot of the medications prescribed are not much better than placebo, and have worse side effects. I strongly believe people should NOT take NSAIDs for DJD (except maybe for short term use) yet lots of docs prescribe them instead of suggesting tylenol, which is safer and as effective, or walking, which is best of all. Sorry to get carried away, it's something I feel strongly about. Anyway, so really I think we need to focus on developing improved placebos! only partly kidding here (and the idea is being pursued at the NIH)....

  19. #39

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by blitz1 View Post
    Anyway, so really I think we need to focus on developing improved placebos! only partly kidding here (and the idea is being pursued at the NIH)....
    There is a recent article I think I read it on Slate all about that concept - it was very, very interesting.
    Trail Cooking/FBC, Recipes, Gear and Beyond:
    Trail Cooking

  20. #40
    Registered User Wise Old Owl's Avatar
    Join Date
    01-29-2007
    Location
    High up in an old tree
    Posts
    14,444
    Journal Entries
    19
    Images
    17

    Default

    ahh I don't understand it, I just feel better. Give me a week I will hike some more and I won't give a damn why...WOO.
    Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

    Woo

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
++ New Posts ++

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •