Verdict on Knee is in.

[Freedom Walker]

I had a MRI last Tuesday of my left knee and the verdict is in, torn medial meniscus. The Orthopedic Doctor said I also had arthritis under the knee cap. The pain began two months ago as I was descending down Blood Mt at Neel Gap. I was using poles. The tear is the type brought on through wear and tear on the knee and age. I told the doc that I didn’t even remember when it happened. He said that can happen and you won’t know that it is until later. No doubt the many years of stocking groceries by swatting repeatedly created the wear and tear.
Now I must decide what to do, surgery or not. The tear is in the “White zone” where there is no blood flow, so self healing is not possible, according to the doctor. Pain is only a 2 or 3 but what would further hiking do to it? Surgery, even if successful puts me out of commission for a while. I thought I should try to drop 15 or 20 pounds. I am 210 now, but I was 195 earlier this year. Also, build up the knees with very specific exercises, while wearing a knee brace.
I know there are many more of you on this forum that have faced the same decision, so I asking you for advice. I want to get back on the AT next year, preferably in the spring, but late summer would be acceptable. I am very determined to succeed.

[Roland]

I know diddly about the subject, but I recommend the following:

1. You said it won't heal itself, so schedule surgery to take place after the holidays.
2. Start watching your diet now. Lessen the load for a faster recovery.
3. Be faithful to your physical therapy plan and you'll be back on the Trail before you know it.

[2.0]

from someone who has had that injury, among other knee injuries, and 4 knee surgeries, I would recommend getting it fix. Torn meniscus will never heal on its own. The tear will likely get worse with more activity and you will really start feeling the grinding in the knee, get inflammation along with fluid build up and of course more pain. Arthoscopic surgery is very minor and only leaves a small (1 inch) scar or two. The healing time is quick for this type of surgery. You will be on crutches for 1-4 days. Walking like normal pain free in about 2-3 weeks. Best thing to do post surgery is use the knee. Walk and do physical therapy (most of which can be done at home on your own). I have had this injury/surgery once. The other 3 times I also had ligament tears and had them reconstructed.

I am not a surgery nut, but I do believe in getting it fixed when broken. Pills and exercise won't fix torn or broken things in your knee. I tried it before surgery. Choice is yours, just providing my perspective.

[Diet Orange Soda]

I too am having a knee scope next Friday to repair a torn meniscus. I also do not know when mine happened but need to get it fixed because I am not giving up hiking either. My doctor has told me that I will need a total knee replacement in the next five years but after I have that I wil be able to do everything I was doing before. I have been researching on here people whe have had TKR and most of them seem to be able to continue hiking with no problems. My plans are to hike the AT in 2013 but I need my knee healed for Sept 2011 because I am hiking the Grand Canyon Rim To Rim for my 60th birthday. I will let you know how I do after next week but I too am determined to be able to continue hiking.

[Del Q]

Sounds like my situation this Fall, VA hike was REALLY painful, came home, MRI, arthroscopy, walked out, no crutches, iced, stretched and walked every hour, that was 6 weeks ago........I am back to 90%, was planning on getting back onto the AT yesterday in southern VA for 7-8 days, knee is not quite ready and weather down south is nasty cold, icy and snowy which would not be safe right now.

Surgery is like getting a cavity filled, no biggie, glad I did it, a few weeks ago I was in less pain than before the surgery. I am 235 and need to drop 20, working on that before spring hike.

[Rick Hancock]

I wish you good luck. I've had both knees done. Torn Meniscus in each.The left knee went out after a lousy 7 mile day hike, I had artho done appx. 5 years ago with great results, quick healing and a slight pain every now and then. The right knee was bothering me and went out during a cold weather hike along the AT above Dripping Rock. I limped out with a knee that looked like a cantaloupe and had surgery a few days later. I followed the same theraphy but the knee never responded sever pain, swelling, etc. I work a physical job and thought I came back too soon. They repeated the artho. and I went through theraphy again. The knee has never been right and I'm told there is bone ion bone and I'll need a partial knee which will give me several years of service and then a total. I'm saving sick leave so I can get this done. I try to limit my hiking to 8-12 miles a day on weekend hikes and I use treking poles. I'm not bothered by uphill or downhill travel instead I have a sensation where messages to my knee from my brain don't register for several seconds. I "tell my left knee/leg to do something and the reaction is immediate, but the right knee/leg takes a few seconds to react. Same thing happened when I tried to use clipless pedals on my Mt. Bike I had to go back to toe cages. It's a weird feeling and the only way I can explain it. Please make sure you get a Doctor who understands sports related injuries. I'm 55 but I and other's on this site who are older do things that not every 55/65 year old person does.

[Rowdy Yates]

I have the same thing. I see a VA Orthopedic Doctor on the 13th of January. The pain is the worst with weight bearing. Some days I can hardly walk. I'm hoping that I can get the Arthro Surgery done, physical therapy done and be able to get back on the Trail in May.

[rainmaker]

If any of you folks ever get this knee issue sorted out please let us know. My wife, Madame, had walked every mile from Springer to Great Barrington over an eight year stretch and then suddenly last year her right knee began swelling. The first orthopedist said it was arthritis, take some V I and move on. Something didn't seem right so we visited another orthopedist, a sports one, and he removed several syringes of blood from her knee. An MRI showed a damaged muniscus which he attempted to correct with arthroscopic surgery. Her swelling went down and her range of motion improved but the pain remained. Subsequent X-rays indicate bone on bone arthritis.

This year she underwent a series of three injections of a substance created from algae that would hopefully provide some cushioning and would allow us to get back on the trail. It was minimally successful. We finished Mass. but after descending Greylock north bound, her knee looked like a cantalope and the pain was not tolerable; end of 2010 hike.

We have spoken to the orthopedist about knee replacement and he said it will probably be necessary in the future but advised against until absolutely necessary. His reasoning is that at her age, 60, a knee replacement now would not outlast her, they normally last about 15 years and she would have to have a second one in her mid 70's. His experience has been that successive knee replacements present diminishing positive results especially among patients in their late 70's and older.

Madame wishes to continue hiking and will probably be able to do so but not on the AT in NH and Maine and for long distances. Of course if any of you all know of or learn of a magic elixer or procedure, please share.

[Del Q]

Forgot to mention, a good friend who just completed an Ironman in Lake Placid was poised for knee surgery during his training, took some time off, TAKES 3 INSTAFLEX PILLS EVERY MORNING, no pain, completed the Ironman which is amazing. He biked but never ran or swam before this.

I have been taking Instaflex since my surgery, cannot tell if it is working or not but I am in ZERO pain 6 weeks from surgery and am working out hard.

Kind of expensive but he says you can buy it direct from the company for under $35 per bottle.

My Doctor said DEFINITELY TAKE GLUCOSAMINE

[Freedom Walker]

Thanks for sharing your stories so far. I know I am not the only one who has faced this problem. My wife has had the surgery on both knees, twice on one knee. She is also a nurse. She warns me that my knee may even be worse and move me closer to possible knee replacement which is what she faces with the knee that has been operated on twice. I gness that is what I am concerned with. Hiking the AT has been a passion for me for a while and at my age, I don't want opportunities to pass by. I will be watching for posts of you who about to have the same surgery.

[Don H]

Does anyone take Glucosamine while thru hiking? I take it at home but hadn't planned on carrying it on the trail.

[Shutterbug]

Thanks for sharing your stories so far. I know I am not the only one who has faced this problem. My wife has had the surgery on both knees, twice on one knee. She is also a nurse. She warns me that my knee may even be worse and move me closer to possible knee replacement which is what she faces with the knee that has been operated on twice. I gness that is what I am concerned with. Hiking the AT has been a passion for me for a while and at my age, I don't want opportunities to pass by. I will be watching for posts of you who about to have the same surgery.

I have not had knee problems, but I have faced the same kind of decision 3 different times. The decision was to live out the rest of my life with a serious medical problem or take the time and risk to have the medical problem fixed. Each time, I have opted for the treatment.

At age 67, hiking is still a major part of my life. That wouldn't be the case if I hadn't taken treatment. My advice is to have the surgery.

[Diet Orange Soda]

which Instaflex product do you take? I looked online and saw bone support, joint support and a multivitamin or do you take all three?

[Grampie]

Freedom Walker, I had a very simmilar experience as you. My first attempt at a thru-hike I was 65 years old. I was in average shape. I hiked NOBO getting as far as Fontana Dam and had to leave the trail with sevear knee pain. Went home and went to a orthopedic doctor. He found three problems. I had a bad stress fracture , arthritis and a slight miniscus tear. The stress fracture would heal with rest. After a couple of months I still had some pain that kept me from hiking. I saw a physicial thearpst who recommended some excercises to strenthen the muscles that support the knee. I also started to take glucosamine / chondroitin. By winter my knees felt good. I was able to ski but wore a knee support. Come spring I was ready to start the AT again. I started from Fontana and hiked to Katahdin compleating the AT. I had no knee problems at all. I would take one Aleve in the AM and another at night. Wore the knee brace and continued with the glucosamine/ chondroitin. I also took it easy the first couple of weeks. I started by doing 6-8 mile days and working up to 14-16 mile days. I also took a "O" every 5 days for the first month.
It all worked for me, I hope it helpes you.

[Freedom Walker]

I had a very simmilar experience as you. My first attempt at a thru-hike I was 65 years old. I was in average shape. I hiked NOBO getting as far as Fontana Dam and had to leave the trail with sevear knee pain. Went home and went to a orthopedic doctor. He found three problems. I had a bad stress fracture , arthritis and a slight miniscus tear. The stress fracture would heal with rest. After a couple of months I still had some pain that kept me from hiking. I saw a physicial thearpst who recommended some excercises to strenthen the muscles that support the knee. I also started to take glucosamine / chondroitin. By winter my knees felt good. I was able to ski but wore a knee support. Come spring I was ready to start the AT again. I started from Fontana and hiked to Katahdin compleating the AT. I had no knee problems at all. I would take one Aleve in the AM and another at night. Wore the knee brace and continued with the glucosamine/ chondroitin. I also took it easy the first couple of weeks. I started by doing 6-8 mile days and working up to 14-16 mile days. I also took a "O" every 5 days for the first month.
It all worked for me, I hope it helpes you.
__________________
Grampie-N->2001

Thanks Grampie for sharing your experience. I know everyone is different, injuries are different, but I hope, pray for an outcome such as yours. My wife, the nurse, who has had 3 knee surgeries, said that I can go ahead and have it, but I must live with the result, there is no returning. I may eventually choose surgery but for a couple of months I will do the following.
1. Lose 15- 20 lbs. I am 210 lbs now and dropping the extra wt during the Holidays will be fun.
2. Take Osteo Bi-Flex, along with additional MSM. I started Monday.
3. Following Drs Orders, take one Celebrex a day.
4. Use the whirlpool 3 or 4 times a week.
5. Develop proper exercises to strengthen the knee.
6. Avoid swatting when possible
7. If I see improvement in 4-6 weeks, try a day hike, using a knee brace.
8. Continue to work on reducing my pack weight.
9. Finally, if I don’t have good improvement, submit to surgery in late Jan or early Feb.
Conventional wisdom says torn cartilage doesn’t heal. I know that, and what I hope to do is get my knee to a place where the pain is manageable and understand that while backpacking, for now 8-10 miles daily should be the max for me. I'll report back later.

[Skidsteer]

If any of you folks ever get this knee issue sorted out please let us know. My wife, Madame, had walked every mile from Springer to Great Barrington over an eight year stretch and then suddenly last year her right knee began swelling. The first orthopedist said it was arthritis, take some V I and move on. Something didn't seem right so we visited another orthopedist, a sports one, and he removed several syringes of blood from her knee. An MRI showed a damaged muniscus which he attempted to correct with arthroscopic surgery. Her swelling went down and her range of motion improved but the pain remained. Subsequent X-rays indicate bone on bone arthritis.

This year she underwent a series of three injections of a substance created from algae that would hopefully provide some cushioning and would allow us to get back on the trail. It was minimally successful. We finished Mass. but after descending Greylock north bound, her knee looked like a cantalope and the pain was not tolerable; end of 2010 hike.

We have spoken to the orthopedist about knee replacement and he said it will probably be necessary in the future but advised against until absolutely necessary. His reasoning is that at her age, 60, a knee replacement now would not outlast her, they normally last about 15 years and she would have to have a second one in her mid 70's. His experience has been that successive knee replacements present diminishing positive results especially among patients in their late 70's and older.

Madame wishes to continue hiking and will probably be able to do so but not on the AT in NH and Maine and for long distances. Of course if any of you all know of or learn of a magic elixer or procedure, please share.

I learned from a friend of mine that had knee replacement today that the new knees are designed with replaceable parts for the components that most commonly wear out.

Sort of like brake shoes for an automobile. These are replaced arthroscopically so it's minimally invasive.

Thought you might want to check that out. Personally, if I needed a knee or hip replacement I would inform the Doctor when I was having it done, not the other way around. Who knows what tomorrow will bring?

[Praha4]

Freedom Walker has a great plan. I developed Illotibial Band Syndrome in Oct-09 while hiking down the north side of Blood Mountain. Several months of physical therapy taught me the importance of stretching, and strengthening exercises to develop the muscles that support the knee.

Best advice:

1. lost weight, I don't know your height, but getting down at least 20-25 pounds would REALLY help you and your knees, feet and back, and stamina on the trail

2. try the Cho-pat knee brace while hiking, its the best knee brace i've ever used while hiking

3. work on stretching exercises for the hamstrings, quads, calves and plantar fascia

4. take the glucosamine supplements

5. do the surgery for the torn meniscus, it will not heal on its own. New scope surgery has quick healing times.

6. take the time now while its winter, the best hiking season on the AT won't start til next April. You have 3-4 months to get your knee taken care of before getting back out there. Do the physical therapy and learn all you can on anatomy and the muscular skeletal system so you can be your own mechanic when it comes to repairing the body

good luck

[Lostone]

Well My MRI results are back and consulted, I am scheduled for surgery second week in january.

Torn meniscus as well.

The plan is to have both wheels back by spring......I will miss winter hiking, it is my favorite time of the year.

Yep, fat boy is on a diet.

[Freedom Walker]

Well My MRI results are back and consulted, I am scheduled for surgery second week in january.

Torn meniscus as well.

The plan is to have both wheels back by spring......I will miss winter hiking, it is my favorite time of the year.

Yep, fat boy is on a diet.

New Year, new beginnings. Keep us posted with your results. I am undecided about my surgery. I have been exercising and my knee is sightly better. Even right now as I type this I am sitting up with a heating pad on it. I plan on taking a day hike on a local mountain on Jan 8th and if I do poorly I will go for the surgery around the end of Jan.
James

[Blissful]

Well My MRI results are back and consulted, I am scheduled for surgery second week in january.

Torn meniscus as well.

The plan is to have both wheels back by spring......I will miss winter hiking, it is my favorite time of the year.

Yep, fat boy is on a diet.

Well at least you can look forward to a nice spring comeback. Take care