My pack needs to go on a Diet! Please help.

[sixguns01]

Sorry if this is kinda long...

Ok so I got back yesterday from a 2-day hike in the Desoto National forest and the trip taught me a lot about my gear; mainly that it is way too heavy. (I'll be posting more on the trip in another thread). I know everyone here has seen a thousand threads like this before, but hey one more won't hurt right!? Besides I really do need some help getting the weight down.
I don't have an exact weight w/ food and water, but I'm pretty sure that w/ food and water the total weight was around 37-38 pounds. Obviously that is way too heavy and I'm now shooting for less that 25 pounds w/ food and water included.
Here is the list of items that I took along w/ notations of what I already know can be removed, what cannot, and what I need help replacing w/ something lighter. This list is for pack weight only, not what I will be wearing on a normal day. I will be bringing 2 trekking poles which are also not included in the list.

Pack
Coleman Elate 65L ($69) ~4lbs
- I couldn't take my Go-lite Jam (~1lb 10oz) pack w/ me because my gear simply didn't fit. I made due w/ a Coleman Elate 65L pack from Wally World because I didn't want to cancel my trip. This pack is junk, too heavy, and is going back to Wally World today. I have to say I did like the top lid for storage and the load lifters helped (I think).
Question is, should I stick w/ the Jam (assuming I can get the weight/bulk down) or go w/ something like the Rei Flash 65 which has the top lid and load lifters, but weighs less than the Coleman? Bear in mind that I'm willing to shell out a little more money if needed, but the budget is still tight and I don't know if I can find another great deal like I did on the jam ($50 on clearance).

Shelter
Kelty Teton 2 ($95) ~4lbs 10oz
- Don't get me wrong, for the money this a great tent w/ plenty of room and easy set up. However, after the trip I felt like I didn't really need this 2 person "castle" and would like to go w/ something much lighter and smaller. (No hammocks). I was thinking maybe a tarptent or something similar? Recomendations? (Something less that 200 bucks would be best).

Sleeping
Campmor 20 Degree Down Bag ($120) ~2lbs 4oz
- Worked great and I doubt I'll find anything lighter without severly blowing the budget. Open to suggestions though.

Insulmat Self-Inflating Pad ($40) ~2lbs 4oz
- Was comfy, but I'm thinking I can save some weight here by going w/ a closed cell pad. Suggestions?

Camp Pillow ($?) ~6.5oz
- Hey look I just saved 6.5 oz cause this item is NOT going w/ me. I tried it and didn't like it at all.

Clothing (sorry don't have weights for most of these cause my bathroom scale won't register them)
Under Armour Frost Stopper Jacket ($35) ~1lb
- Don't think I can get much lighter here when I comes to a wind/water resistant warm jacket.

Paradox LS Base Layer Top (medium weight I think.)
- Already had this, don't want to spend money on something else that might save a few ounces.

Paradox Base Layer Bottom (same material as top)
- Will save a few ounces here cause I don't think I'll need them. However I don't know if just my normal pair of hiking pants will cut it on really cold days. Suggestions?

Fleece Hat
- Just a basic fleece hat

1 Target C9 DuoDry T-Shirt
- Basic hiking shirt. Worked great and low cost (Yay for clearance racks!).

2 Pairs Smartwool Socks
- Will eliminate a couple of ounces by just packing 1 pair.

1 Pair C9 Underwear
- I wore a pair and packed a pair on the Desoto trip. I will only bring 1 pair to wear on the AT and only then on cooler days or to sleep in. Went "commando" (sorry probably TMI) for the 1st time in Desoto and preferred it w/ the warm weather (80 degrees).

Lightweight Fleece Jacket
- Gonna save about 13 oz here cause I think it is overkill and will NOT be bringing it.

1 Pair of Gym Shorts
- Light and great for sleeping/wearing while doing laundry.

Dri Duck Rain Jacket
- Don't think I could get much lighter w/o sacrifcing durability.

Other
Katadyn Water Filter ~13 oz
- Will definately be bringing this. I know I could save weight by going w/ chemicals, but I don't think I could give up the benifits of having a filter.

GSI Soloist Pot & Cup ~1 lb 10z (including stove and stuff below)
- Worked great. Couldn't really save any weight unless I went titanium which is out of my budget.

NoLimits Canister Stove W/ Plastic Fork, Spoon, and 1 4oz Canister (See above for weight)
- Worked great. Found that I really like the ease of freezer bag cooking. Even if there are lighter alternitives (alcohol stoves for example), I've already used this item and can't return it now so I guess I'm stuck w/ it (which isn't neccesarily a bad thing).

Wally World Plastic Trowel
- Nuff said

Roll of TP
- Nuff said

Electronics ~1lb 6oz
- Camera (may replace with a new camera that uses batteries, eliminating the heavy charger)
- Cell phone w/ charger
- Headlamp
- Sansa Clip Mp3 player w/ charger & headphones (very light weight, probably wouldn't notice the difference if I didn't bring it)

1st Aid, Toiletries, and basic Swiss Army Knife ~1lb 7oz
- Will save ~6oz by leaving out some uneccesary 1st aid items, camp soap, deodarent stick, and sunscreen. Was thinking of leaving out the bug spray to save a few more ounces. I already have a head net (which is lighter). What do you think?

Journal and Section of AT Companion ~13oz
- Will save an ounce or 2 as I broke up the Companion into even smaller sections.

Food bag
- Gonna save a couple ounces by switching to a sil-nylon bag instead of the plastic thing I have now.

I think thats about it. I've already removed aproximately 2lbs 4oz as listed from my comments above. I will save another 2lbs 6oz if I go with my Go-lite Jam. That would get me down to roughly 32.5lbs with food and water, but it looks like I still need to cut 7.5lbs to get down to my 25lb goal. I might be able to shave off a pound by packing lighter food, but not really sure about that. Let the comments begin; and thank you all for your help.

I went through this last year. First and foremost check out Backpackinglight.com. Great ideas and gear reviews. Also their Gear Swap Forum is par none. It's like the selling/buying sections here but on major steroids. I picked up a Gossamer Gear The One tent (1lb) for $125 when they go for $300.

Pack- Go with the Jam. Cut all the other weight and the Jam is perfect. The Jam and Pinnacle are my bags

Shelter- Way too heavy. Should be around 2lbs not over 4lbs. Even looking for a cheap alternative is good to go. Kelty make some really light ones as well. Check out some tarptents.

First Aid kit- Mine used to be huge. Planned for every scenario. I slowly moved to the Adventure Medical Kits Ultralight / Watertight .3 First-Aid Kit at REI. $9. I added my own meds and such but it only weighs 4oz. That was hard to do since I feared the worse but it was a move I did not regret. Yet.

Sleeping Mat- Over 2lbs is too heavy for a mat. Search around. You can find air mats and foam mats that are the same price and half the weight. I use the Z-Rest; weighs 13oz. Can even cut it down to 3/4 length for more eight savings if you like. Pacific Outdoors and Nemo make air mats under 1lb for around $80 as well.

Water Purification- I have the same pump but haven';t used it in over a year. I switched to tablets. Almost a pound gone just by doing that. I also carry some powered drinks, so if the taste doesn't agree with you, mask it.

Stove/Pots- I switched to Alcohol sometime ago. Loved my Jetboil but time moves on. I picked up the Trail Designs Caldera Keg-H system; the Jetboil of alcohol stoves. Stove, caldera cone, and Heineken Keg can all weigh a total of 4oz. Easy and durable and can use esbit if you want. Only good for heating water for Freezer Bag or Insulated Cup cooking. Also, fuel is light and easy to find for it. No canisters.

Check out Zpacks and MountainFitters.com for some super light stuff bags. made of cuden fiber. Also some decent deals as well. Both Joe and Lawson are great with awesome customer service.

I sold all my old heavier gear on eBay and used the cash to buy lighter gear over the last two years. I started with a 40lb pack fully loaded for a weekend trip. Now I'm at 17lbs with some luxury items.

Again, if you really want some awesome info, you have to check out Backpackinglight.com. You'll find some excellent advice on cutting ounces. hell, even cutting grams but that's a bit much. The Gear Swap forum and they have a forum where people post gear deals found on the web. By the way, it's free and easy to sign up to be a guest.

Hope this helps.

[Skid.]

You didn't mention how you carry your water, so I assume a camelbak, or something similar? If not, you can replace any nalgene bottles with Platypus bags. I saved 12 ounces doing that alone.

[WaitingInTheWeeds]

Thanks again everyone. Based on your advice here are the changes I will definately make and others explaining why I cannot or don't want to change.

Water Filter - Adios! (see I'm flexible )

Tent and Sleep Pad - Already discussed, probably gonna go w/ a tarptent moment or contrail and a lightweight closed cell pad

Contacts - Sorry, but these are a must bring. My glasses are my old prescription and as such are only suitable for wearing at night when I take my contacts out. I won't be able to afford a new pair with the other gear that I have to replace. Besides glasses have their downside too. They can break, they get sweaty and slide down your nose, they are tough to keep clean, etc...

Stove - If the budget allows, I'll look into the alcohol stove option but as I mentioned I can't return my current setup so there would be no way to defray the cost.

Stuff sacks - Could use a lighter one for my food. I'll look around for the best deals. Question is, what size should i get??

1st aid kit - I think I've got it down as far as I am comfortable with. If I feel like I need to change it more on the trail then I will do so.

Bug spray - Note taken on the smaller bottle.

Toothbrush - will cut it down a bit.

TP - We are really splitting hairs here, but I suppose it couldn't hurt to remove the cardboard

Lighter - Good idea on getting the mini bic - never thought of that

Needle and floss - Doh! I didn't even think to bring a needle, but I can see how it could come in handy. Will definately bring a needle and wrap some floss around it.

Finally should I bring the camp soap, the hand sanitizer, or both?

[WaitingInTheWeeds]

Oh yeah, I forgot. As far as water containers go, I took 2 1 liter powerade bottles w/ me. I think though I'm gonna go w/ a bladder of some kind though because I hated having to stop just to get a drink (I carry 2 poles and so I don't really have a free hand, plus it can be hard to contort your arm around to reach the water bottles). I think I'll probably keep about a liter in the bladder and the other liter in 1 powerade bottle.

[theeulogy]

If the Golite Jam will absolutely not work then just move it on Ebay. I got them from the clearence also and did not know what size I needs, so I got both sizes. I am selling the medium cause it did not fit. You should come out ahead at least. But I would recommend finding a way to make it work, its a bit bigger than it looks.

[berninbush]

I know money's an issue, but you might seriously consider saving up and doing Lasik if you're a candidate. I did it when I was 28 years old, even though it meant borrowing $3,000 from my parents, and it was the best thing I EVER did for myself. (I've even paid my parents back already.) Beyond all the weight, time, and aggravation you save yourself when hiking, it vastly improves your day to day life when you can wake up in the morning and read the alarm clock without having to reach for your glasses. No more getting a piece of grit in your contacts and being in stinging pain for several minutes, oblivious to the world around you. No more walking outside on a humid day and having your glasses totally fog over. You also save money by not having to buy new glasses, contacts, and contact supplies.

I chose to do it at age 28 because I reasoned that should give me at least 12 good years of vision before I started needing reading glasses!

[Creek Dancer]

Stuff sacks - Could use a lighter one for my food. I'll look around for the best deals. Question is, what size should i get??

Wal Mart sells a set of 3 waterproof stuff sacks for about 10 dollars. I think they are made by Outdoor Research, but I am not sure. They come in 3 colors, each a different size. I use one for clothing (big), one for food (medium) and one for sundries (small). When you close the top of the sack, you end up with "ring" of sorts which is helpful for hanging up your food bag.

[TheYoungOne]

If you had a smaller tent, pot and sleeping pad do you think you could fit everything into the Go-lite bag?

Get a Ti cook set, something like a Big Agnes Pad, and a Seedhouse SL2 and you saved 3 to 4 pounds and a lot of space, which means you can drop down into the Go-lite pack and save an additional 3 pounds.

[WaitingInTheWeeds]

Man, it feels like I'm starting all over again when it comes to my gear list. It's frustrating because my "go" date is in 3 weeks.

I was able to get a lighter sleeping pad today - a ridgerest so-lite...so that saved some weight right there.

I also got a lighter sack for my food bag

I think I've narrowed down my tent choices to the tarptent moment or contrail (leaning towards the moment for the "no obstruction" entry)

At this point, what I need the most help w/ is choosing a new pack. After loading up the Jam; I decided it just wasn't gonna work for me. I felt like it didn't have enough shoulder padding; and I think an internal frame pack will suit me better.

The problem is that with only 3 weeks left, I can realistically order only 1 more pack online (plus I don't want to pay return shipping anymore). I wish I had a store near me where I could try on packs, but there just isn't one so online is my only option. So I am asking for the best possible options for me when it comes to selecting a new pack. Here are my requirements:

-Price - Less than $200.
-Weight - Less than 4lbs
-Size - I felt like the jam was just a bit too small so maybe something in the 55-60 Liter range
-Padding - Average amount of padding (Go-lite's padding is too thin for my taste)
-Pockets - A sleeping bag compartment would be awesome. I also want at least one pocket on the hip belt for snacks.
-Internal Frame = Yes
-Hydration Compatible = Yes
-Load lifters = Yes

If it helps I am 5' 7" 105lbs (yes, very skinny w/ bony hips/shoulders)

As I said this will likely be the last pack I order so I have to make it count. Thanks for all your help.

[WaitingInTheWeeds]

Sorry for re-posting in my own thread so soon (hope no-one comes after me w/ pitchforks and torches), but I was cruising the net looking at packs and stumbled across this one

http://www.alpsmountaineering.com/packs/internal-frame-packs/orizaba-3900

Has anyone had experience w/ this pack or other packs from this company? Do you think this would fit the bill for my requirements listed above?

[Wags]

here's a lunar solo for $175
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-...hread_id=44894

[lori]

Have you looked at Granite Gear? Very adjustable and often found on sale.

If you don't go with the tarptent, would you consider a tarp/groundcloth?

Have you tried sleeping on the z-lite yet? If it doesn't work for you (oh, it so did not work for me!) are you going to look for something else? If you do, check out the Big Agnes Insulated Air Core or the NeoAir - these are likely the cheapest and lightest comfort that will also keep you warm. Don't discount a good night's sleep... drove me to NeoAir and hammocks.

Water filter or not to... I have a gravity filter. It doubles as a shower. That's an awesome thing when your hair starts to show the patterns of the inside of your knit cap. Maybe not such a big deal when you can bail off trail for a shower every few days, but out here it's kind of nice to hang water in the sun and have a bit of warm water to wash under. Gravity filters that are a nylon bag and filter cartridge weigh less than the plastic housing/cartridge models. Mine uses a platypus instead of the type of filter you can't backflush... because I can backflush it and use it a lot longer. Works great with my platypus containers.

[Wil]

Stove - If the budget allows, I'll look into the alcohol stove option but as I mentioned I can't return my current setup so there would be no way to defray the cost.

Not much cost for a cat stove. If you know someone who uses Fancy Feast cat food, and have access to a paper punch, you're in business for free, with no construction skills required. Windscreen can simply be from heavy duty aluminum foil, though a discardable aluminum baking pan would be raw material for a better one and some aluminum flashing (real money here!) more durable.

This is not the world's greatest stove, but its deficiencies relative to more sophisticated designs are subtle and minor.

[skinewmexico]

Not much cost for a cat stove. If you know someone who uses Fancy Feast cat food, and have access to a paper punch, you're in business for free, with no construction skills required.

I kept waiting for someone to mention a cat stove. Works great, next to free. Or look for stoves by Zelph. Have you tried the Jam with your pad rolled up inside the pack, your gear stuck in the middle of the pad like a burrito, and the compression straps tight? It's really important to have those packs compressed to get weight transfer to your hips. Two things you can do to make the Jam transfer better - replace the foam in the back panel with a piece of blue CCF (from wallyworld), or borrow one of those yard signs made of coroplast, and cut it to fit in the backpanel. Otherwise, it's ULA Circuit time!

[Wil]

Or look for stoves by Zelph

Zelph is the stove god. He is more interested these days in wood than alcohol but still the man. But, as I said, the difference between the cat and state-of-the-art alcohol is subtle and minor.

[MoonWalker]

If you can make the trip to baton rouge, head over to the backpacker. They will help you find the the right fit suggest a few things and ask you to do your homework then come back if you want to buy one of theirs. You could probably even just call and ask for Ann or Allison (they did wonders for my outfitting experience), they might be able to tell you if they can fix you up.

[Papa D]

Everyone carries waterproof matches - I've backpacked thousands of miles and spent weeks in very remote wet cold wilderness areas, dunked my pack in creeks, etc., but have always managed to keep a lighter dry with just a zip-lock - I very seriously doubt that you need waterproof matches on the Appalachian Trail - you will have almost no nights unless you cowboy camp without at least a few others around - when you are alone, I bet you can keep the lighter dry - ditch 'em.

[Papa D]

I'll say it again - you are wasting good postage money taking that filter - it will be cross contaminated, clogged, and in a bag on a UPS truck within a week.

[10-K]

I'll say it again - you are wasting good postage money taking that filter - it will be cross contaminated, clogged, and in a bag on a UPS truck within a week.

I hiked for a few hours with a thru yesterday (No Plan) and he said more than once he'd be mailing his filter home... He switched to Aqua Mira and hadn't used the filter since Franklin.

[Magilla]

I have the gravity filter, katadyn base camp, I have section hiked the last couple years with it. I haven't had any problems with it and I like to fill it and set-up my water containers when I get to camp. Go about setting up while they fill. I just like the filter, but haven't tried Aqua Mira.