ULA CDT (former Conduit) or OHM???

[Dogwood]

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread but Dogwood's comment on a virtual frame for the CDT caught my attention when I did a search. So I figured I'd comment on this thread rather than starting a new one. I just received a custom CDT (specified a rolltop like the Circuit vs. the draw string closure) and I'm experimenting with various ways of packing it. I carry both a regular Neoair xlite and a cut down piece of blue foam that I use as a sit pad. I removed the standard foam that ULA ships with the CDT and have packed up with both the Neoair and the blue foam as "virtual" frames. The neo air, slightly inflated, is indeed more comfortable I think... but I am, to some degree, still worried about punctures even though I have now used the pad for an extended amount of time (six weeks on the PCT this spring). I always kept it in a stuff sack and was protective of it in camp only using it on my cuben floor after taking time to clear the underlying ground of sharp objects. I don't believe that I have sharp objects inside my pack typically so that's probably not an issue. But what about setting the pack down during breaks? The back panel is pretty thin, as is the bottom of the pack. Should I be overly concerned about popping the neo air when used in this manner?

For now, the CDT is going to be my summer pack for shorter trips where total weight is likely going to be in the 15 pound range. Possibly 20 if I go out for several days. But I am looking at going in a more ultralight direction for all of my hiking longer term and possibly using the CDT for hikes where I would have, in the past, used my Circuit. On some occasions with longer food and water carries, I can see myself going up to 25 pounds or so even with a UL base weight. So the virtual frame concept is something I want to explore while I still am carrying minimal weight so I can push it further in the future.

Wow, 4 yrs ago.

Gotcha. IMO, you're transitioning to lighter wt kits wisely in multiple steps carefully considering many aspects of your hikes and your hiking style(s) rather than the one big leap approach to saving wt which I see becoming increasingly common among the more inexperienced who seem to think going to lighter kits is all/largely about purchasing new sometimes expensive gear often not commensurate with their entire growing skill set or expansion of their types of hikes.

My goal for employing the ULA CDT was kit integration employing an UL hiking style that include considerations beyond gear too. I strip all my CDTs down to about 18 -20 oz(m/L torso, 34-36" waist belt) removing all the removable items including the back foam pad. I still use the NeoAir Xlite Shortie and med length XLite(this is the woman's version but who says a man can't use it too?, I like this length at times as a 6'4" man) as a virtual framesheet.
A NeoAir XLite is DEFLATED, then folded into the appropriate number of folds(longer your inflatable pad the more number of folds), and then placed w/ the air valve UP within the empty ULA CDT securing it with the elastic holding straps on the top(these keep the pad in place as the pad sometimes wants to rise up out of the pack). The folded DEFLATED pad takes up very little volume! I don't carry a CCF pad inside a pack when I have wt saving goals. They simply take up too much valuable interior volume which can be used for other things that need greater protection. ULA used to, and still might, have a vid on using/placing an inflatable pad into the CDT to be used as a framesheet/suspension.

The only items that go into my CDT that could possibly cause a puncture or pinch from the inside are things like foldable carbon fiber tarp/tent poles(I could store these outside but since they are SUL I don't want the risk of them being damaged, if I'm using trekking poles these aren't usually necessary and I will store trekking poles on the outside) and or tent stakes or maybe something in my cook set. This is easily remedied by placing tent stakes in an old microfiber sunglass pouch w/ a drawcord, and rubber banding(mini hair bungees work well too) this pouch and the poles together placing the poles slightly off to the side of NeoAir as my next pack loading step. If really concerned I may sleeve a 2nd pr of socks I almost always have onto each end of these poles. All cookware items are stored inside my pot inside a mesh storage bag.

Then a quilt or sleeping bag is loaded that sits on the bottom of the pack. Then, the rest of my gear in order of the items I may have the most use for towards the top of the pack i.e.; wind/rain jacket, extra shirt, vest, jacket. etc. Once loaded/mostly loaded I THEN PARTIALLY INFLATE the Neo Air so it is NOT fully inflated but stabilizes the load, creates a virtual suspension, and provides cushion against my back. I do NOT want, as Muddy stated as a concern, the pad taking up undue valuable interior volume OR risking a deflated inflatable pad!

The ULA uses their ULA 210 Robic for the main pack material. It is tough! It lasts! They also reinforce the bottom of the pack. It has much greater puncture resistance than say straight non hybrid CF 6 or 8 used in tarps. Only after many 1000's of abrasive trail and traveling miles(CDT, CT, Deserts, high elev traverses, lava, flights, bus rides, being thrown into car trunks and the back of PUs, etc) do I notice the bottom of the backpack receiving any noticeable wear issues that MIGHT cause concern for puncturing a Neo Air. This is easily remedied with a few dabs of McNetts Seam Grip.

DO be mindful of how you throw your CDT onto the ground or what you lay it up against when using an inflatable pad as your virtual frame after having removed the stock foam back when in high puncture environs like cacti and mesquite abundant desert areas of the possible punctures that can occur through the back panel.

I have had ZERO issues puncturing a Neo Air either from external or internal sources after extensive use doing it this way. My only punctures with the NeoAir have occurred once the pad is outside the backpack like when I haven't adequately checked the ground(using no ground sheet) before I sat on it.

[Dogwood]

MW, I would approach cautiously creating a frameless rucksack out of a ULA Circuit. The volume of the Circuit could rather easily allow a Newbie to overload and over wt it in this amended configuration. I could see someone doing that on random occasions if they had high volume low wt gear and that was the only backpack available though.

Even though I will rather comfortably use the CDT above the rec wt limit for which it was designed I usually only do so for short durations AND only after having much improved my upper body strength. I would not generally rec the CDT be used if the WT of your load REGULARLY surpasses the 25lb mark.

[Dogwood]

MW- "Inflating a pad for support takes up half a pack as well." No it does not have to be that way. See above. Valid concern, it was for me too, but we must move forward beyond just identifying potential issues by offering potential solutions.

[Coffee]

Dogwood, thanks for your comments. I am loading my CDT similarly to what you describe with the main difference being that I have the pad inside my pack liner (compactor bag) rather than outside so I am not using the elastic ULA provides to keep a back pad in place. I have also removed all of the optional items including the standard foam back panel. (My CDT weighs a bit under 23 ounces, I think b/c I had ULA use a roll top like on the circuit rather than a drawstring; also Chris now uses the Circuit style mesh for the front pocket rather than the stretchy mesh they used to use for the CDT and Ohm b/c the stretchy mesh provider is out of business. This may add a bit of weight as well).

I loaded the pack with the sleeping bag at the bottom (not in a stuff sack) food bag on top of the sleeping bag, some clothing around the food bag, cook set and ditty bag above that. Then I close up the liner and have my tent above the liner. I partially inflated the pad and initially blew it up too much so that the back panel was uncomfortable. I let some air out and it became very comfortable. At 18 pounds I think that the load carries very well. For summer overnight trips, I should be at 15 pounds or less, and I think that I could carry up to 25 comfortably. I'll have to experiment with this some more but I really like the virtual frame idea and good to know that you've not had any punctures using a neo air like this. From a volume perspective, it seems very spacious. I could probably get 4-5 days of food in there and still have room for gear for a warm weather trip.

[Dogwood]

BTW, the ULA CDT used to come with the roll down top. They switched to the drawstring closure. I think they did it because the wt crept up due to some other things that changed and saw the drawstring closure system a way to offset that wt.

Haapppy haaapppy trails. HYOH

[Dogwood]

Back when the CDT was called the Conduit. Now they have the CDT2. I did some comparisons of the different models on what I liked and disliked for the different versions here on WB and a few other sites.

[Coffee]

Maybe I should have kept the standard drawstring to save a bit of weight but I have found that the Circuit's rolltop is pretty effective at keeping out very light drizzle so I can comfortably delay deploying a pack cover on the Circuit for a while in very light rain conditions where I feel like the pack won't be saturated. With a drawstring closure, I would feel like water could form a drip and get in more easily. However I could be wrong about that. One other improvement to the CDT that I can think of would be to implement the Ohm style compression system. In fact, I might ask ULA about possibly adding that. It is possible that such a modification would cut a slight amount of weight depending on whether the thin compression cord on the Ohm weighs less than the two compression straps on the CDT. But for now I'm happy with it. If anything the volume might be too large for an overnight summer trip or for a Camino-style walk in Europe. It will be interesting to see whether I can transition to the CDT as my main pack for longer hikes or not.

One other thing I just noticed that shows how well thought out the pack is ... The Circuit's shoulder strap is actually a bit thinner than the CDT's, which is obviously because the CDT requires the user to bear more of the weight on the shoulders. Very well thought out.

If I recall correctly, ULA used to specify the max weight of the CDT as 25 pounds but now they list it as 18, probably to control expectations a little better and to encourage people to really keep the weight below 25. I should load it up next with 25 to see how that feels.

[Coffee]

The Circuit's shoulder strap is actually a bit thinner than the CDT's

More accurately, I should have said "narrower", not "thinner". I think that the thickness is about the same. But the CDT shoulder strap is wider.

[Gnomad]

When asked last week about ohm style compression:"we don't do custom work on our packs so the Ohm compression on a CDT isn't an option"

[Coffee]

When asked last week about ohm style compression:"we don't do custom work on our packs so the Ohm compression on a CDT isn't an option"

That's strange ... they have always seemed open to custom work when I've asked before ... if fact they just did (rolltop on my CDT).

[colorado_rob]

That's strange ... they have always seemed open to custom work when I've asked before ... if fact they just did (rolltop on my CDT).

Yeah, seriously... ULA has been great about custom work. Maybe he's expanded and has some less-friendly employees these days?

Back to the OP's original question, and a couple more data points: really, the OHM 2.0 and the Circuit are essentially the same size packs, contrary to what people seem to post on WB. The specs for the circuit are slightly larger, but for a brief time I owned both and the same kit of gear/clothes fit into both packs essentially identically with the same room to spare. I returned the circuit and kept the OHM, saving about 11 ounces; my large size OHM 2.0 weighs in at 28.0 ounces with a couple of the useless items removed (1-2 ounces). My mid-summer base is right at about 10 pounds (with the OHM) . I've found the OHM comfy up to about 25-27 pounds and it's comfort drops like a rock higher than that.

If you want a significantly smaller pack, you really have to go with the CDT. I'll be buying one myself here soon for shorter outings (2-3 days) as I figure it's plenty comfy up to about 20 pounds total.

[Coffee]

I've heard similar things about sizing from other hikers who have the Ohm 2.0, although I've never actually seen an Ohm in person. The Circuit's volume is actually too big for my gear on long hikes except when I either have a bear canister or 5+ days of food in my food bag. The CDT really seems perfect for me in terms of sizing. I think that I'm either going to start using it as a long distance pack if I can feel comfortable with occasionally going up to 25 pounds in it, or I might look seriously at the 52L zPacks ArcBlast if I feel like a frame is needed. I think that the Ohm 2.0 is too close to the Circuit to be useful in my lineup of packs.

How's the Ohm with a bear canister?

[colorado_rob]

How's the Ohm with a bear canister?

Well, it of course does fit in upright just fine, but not sideways, but the OHM has plenty of volume (for lightweight backpackers), so how I would pack one with a canister is simply place everything else in bottom of pack and set canister on top sticking out the top a bit if necessary. It does add 2.5 pounds (the BV 500) bringing my base to close to 13 pounds, so with 7-8 days (like for a JMT thru) of food crammed into the BV and two quarts of water we're at 30-31 pounds of weight, definitely an overload for the OHM, but bearable for a couple days (until food weight comes down). If I were buying a ULA pack for use with a bear canister, I'd probably recommend the Circuit, though with that roll top, not 100% sure how that would work. BTW: that might be the main reason I didn't care for the circuit: that roll top. I prefer a simple drawstring top like the OHM, and why I like (but don't own yet) the CDT.

[Coffee]

I've heard of people ordering the Circuit with the drawstring closure. For me the rolltop is essential for compression since I often don't use the Circuit's full capacity. I think that the same will be true on the CDT.

[colorado_rob]

I've heard of people ordering the Circuit with the drawstring closure. For me the rolltop is essential for compression since I often don't use the Circuit's full capacity. I think that the same will be true on the CDT.

I understand that some folks like the roll top, but I just find it unnecessary weight and part of the 11 extra ounces in the Circuit. It's easy to compress the top with the OHM, it has a strap for that. If that's not quite enough, compress the sides first (yellow side cords), squeezing everything a bit up, then the top strap last.

I sure wish they made the OHM with the circuit suspension but a draw string, but sounds like they will indeed build a Circuit with a drawstring.... Nirvana!

[Coffee]

The rolltop added probably 2-3 ounces to my CDT. I feel like it was worth it but maybe it was a mistake. Looking at it another way my CDT is 10% heavier than a normal CDT with the drawstring. I'm a creature of habit with the Circuit's system.

[mak1277]

I just bought my second CDT (first one was stolen). I will say that I don't like at all the new material for the mesh pocket. It's not stretchy at all, and IMO far inferior to the original mesh. As Coffee mentioned, the mesh supplier went out of business, so I don't think there's much that can be done.

[Dogwood]

I did like the older stretchy mesh in that, well it stretched, but it tore/ran/punctured rather easily IMO. I replaced the older stretchy mesh twice on two of my rare panel shovel pockets with that style mesh for this reason.

I suspected ULA wouldn't offer that customization with the CDT it's smallest volume and lowest wt backpack. I would think it's not something often called for.

Referring to your shoulder strap size comment above Coffee and in context with what I said

[Dogwood]

I did like the older stretchy mesh in that, well it stretched, but it tore/ran/punctured rather easily IMO. I replaced the older stretchy mesh twice on two of my rare panel shovel pockets with that style mesh for this reason.

I suspected ULA wouldn't offer that customization with the CDT it's smallest volume and lowest wt backpack. I would think it's not something often called for.

Referring to your shoulder strap size comment above Coffee and in context with what I said in post #8 the CDT has no load lifters. The design was meant for a certain upper wt limit. Should one regularly wt above that limit or pack in such a way that the load mass starts moving further away from the wearer's back it starts placing greater stress on the shoulders as the pack has a tendency to move even further away from the wearer's body. I'm used to doing that by now and comfortable with it but I'm not everyone is or in the position to regularly over wt the pack.

[Coffee]

I just bought my second CDT (first one was stolen). I will say that I don't like at all the new material for the mesh pocket. It's not stretchy at all, and IMO far inferior to the original mesh. As Coffee mentioned, the mesh supplier went out of business, so I don't think there's much that can be done.

There is some stretch to it but not a huge amount. It's the same situation on the Circuit. On the Circuit I typically use the mesh pocket for my rain gear, pack cover and other small items I might need during the day so I don't have to open the main pack body. It definitely wouldn't work well to store my tent or any larger item. I've seen a CDT with the stretchy mesh and it could expand to accommodate a larger item like a tent. I guess the main issue with putting too much in the mesh on the CDT is related to Dogwood's point about the load moving away from the back. I wouldn't really want lots of items in the mesh pocket for that reason. I have noticed some tendency for the pack to move away from my back but so far (with an 18 pound test weight) isn't a big issue for me. I might need to experiment with how I load the pack.