Lightning at night, lower levels in lean to?

[gregpphoto]

Hi all, I'm pretty familiar with lightning safety, the lightning position, all that, but I was wondering what is the recommended advice for when you are already at lower elevations but are in a lean to, especially at night trying to sleep? I know shelters provide no protection and can in fact be worse than open ground as lightning can arc across the entrance much like a small cave (also not advised). If something is close, mile or less, do I get out of the shelter with my pad and into the lightning position?

[Del Q]

I would not, been there done that. Stay in the shelter, falling trees is another issue.

[WingedMonkey]

Yes you should. Hikers never get enough reasons to laugh.

[Wise Old Owl]

Hi all, I'm pretty familiar with lightning safety, the lightning position, all that, but I was wondering what is the recommended advice for when you are already at lower elevations but are in a lean to, especially at night trying to sleep? I know shelters provide no protection and can in fact be worse than open ground as lightning can arc across the entrance much like a small cave (also not advised). If something is close, mile or less, do I get out of the shelter with my pad and into the lightning position?

Greg- Welcome to WB and everything that you said here is just way off or you don't post well. The most important reason for a hard shelter is lightening and then wind. Raining branches can be large enough to crush a truck, so being in a hard shelter is the right thing to do. You stay in the shelter until the storm is well past. I kid you not on this - this is straight out of the playbook for the Boy Scouts.

[birchy]

Yes you should. Hikers never get enough reasons to laugh.

NOW THAT WAS FUNNY, I DON"T CARE WHO YOU ARE.....lol

[4eyedbuzzard]

Hi all, I'm pretty familiar with lightning safety

Not to be nasty, but based upon your statements, you're not.

I know shelters provide no protection and can in fact be worse than open ground as lightning can arc across the entrance much like a small cave (also not advised).

Absolutely wrong. Shelters provide a much higher degree of protection than being in the open (or in a tent or anywhere else in the woods) by being raised above the ground and by providing overhead protection from both lightning and falling trees / limbs.

If something is close, mile or less, do I get out of the shelter with my pad and into the lightning position?

No.

[AaronMB]

IMO, I think he means "shelter" in the basic sense of the word; in this case, his "lean-to" is the shelter he is referring to. He mentions the possibility of lightning arcing across the entrance, so I imagine that he's picturing two poles for the lean-to as the arc points for the lightening.

Or not(?).

[AaronMB]

err..."lightning" not lightening

[gregpphoto]

Hmm. Then why does it say the following on the NY State dept. of health website under lightning safety tips?

"Avoid small sheds and lean-tos or partial shelters, like pavilions."

http://www.health.state.ny.us/enviro...her/lightning/

Ohhh, maybe look into stuff before flaming me!! Shelter is a synonymous term for lean to.

[gregpphoto]

Plus for petes sake I even used the word lean to in my OP. A simple google search would have showed that I am correct.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Hmm. Then why does it say the following on the NY State dept. of health website under lightning safety tips?

"Avoid small sheds and lean-tos or partial shelters, like pavilions."

http://www.health.state.ny.us/enviro...her/lightning/

Ohhh, maybe look into stuff before flaming me!! Shelter is a synonymous term for lean to.

With a bit of luck, the lightning might keep the killer black bears at bay.

[gregpphoto]

With a bit of luck, the lightning might keep the killer black bears at bay.

Hopefully it keeps elves away as well.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Hopefully it keeps elves away as well.

Nope, not worried about lightning or bears, if I was I'd just stay at home.

Seriously though, part of the beauty of backpacking is learning to let go of your fears, particularly those that are fairly low ranking on the actuarial tables.

But of course, hike your own hike. I'll poke fun at things on this site from time to time, but a the end of the day, do what's right for you.

[Bronk]

According to ATC guidelines, in the event of lightning you should assume the fetal position in the corner of the shelter and rock back and forth. If no shelter is available you should shake your fist at God.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Plus for petes sake I even used the word lean to in my OP. A simple google search would have showed that I am correct.

To better explain our disconnect on the subject:

http://xkcd.com/795/

[Trailweaver]

O.K. children, play nice!

[gregpphoto]

Nope, not worried about lightning or bears, if I was I'd just stay at home.

Seriously though, part of the beauty of backpacking is learning to let go of your fears, particularly those that are fairly low ranking on the actuarial tables.

But of course, hike your own hike. I'll poke fun at things on this site from time to time, but a the end of the day, do what's right for you.

I'm not afraid of bears or snakes or any of the objective hazards. Rather, I show a healthy respect to the forces that could kill me in an instant. The fact that you'd all rather make fun of me rather than actually help shows you people dont give a flying F about anyone but yourselves.

Good day.

[Toolshed]

C'mon. lighten up on the guy.... Greg, we are all not this bad, but if you truly don't want to take some heat or criticism, then you have to post in the women's forum.... LOL.
Greg,
You are somewhat safe in a lean-to or shelter, given that most are built in locations where there are taller trees everywhere around it (not just next to the shelter) and shelters are usually not right on the water. You don't want to be in a clump of the tallest trees, but if you are in a forested area and much lower than all the trees around you and your shelter is not made of metal, then I think you are pretty safe (though no one is ever completely safe).
If it were a shelter on an outcropping with no trees around it, or sitting in an open meadow, with no trees around it, or it is in a large meadow in a small cluster of tall trees, then I would consider alternative measures.

From:
http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_pls/ploutdoor.htm

LIGHTNING SAFETY TIPS

AVOID: Avoid water. Avoid all metallic objects. Avoid the high ground. Avoid solitary tall trees. Avoid close contact with others - spread out 15-20 ft. apart. Avoid contact with dissimilar objects (water & land; boat & land; rock & ground; tree & ground). Avoid open spaces.
SEEK:Seek clumps of shrubs or trees of uniform height. Seek ditches, trenches or the low ground. Seek a low, crouching position with feet together with hands on ears to minimize acoujstic shock from thunder.
KEEP: Keep a high level of safety awareness for thirty minutes after the last observed lightning or thunder.

[hikerboy57]

avoid the outdoors.be afraid.

[Sarcasm the elf]

I'm not afraid of bears or snakes or any of the objective hazards. Rather, I show a healthy respect to the forces that could kill me in an instant. The fact that you'd all rather make fun of me rather than actually help shows you people dont give a flying F about anyone but yourselves.

Good day.

Greg, I can assure you that no offense is intended. There are a number of thread topics that appear on this site time and time again and we like to have a bit of fun with them... It's all in good fun as long as you don't make the mistake of asking for peoples opinions about dog leashes

Since you asked your question in earnest, here's my two cents on the subject:

If you are in a forested area, I would think that a shelter would be the safest place to be during a thunder storm. In my experience I have never seen anyone have a close call with a lightning strike while under tree cover. I have seen several people have close calls (disturbingly close calls) with trees and branches being blown down by the wind accompanying a thunderstorm. Because of this, I would say that a structure with a solid roof would be your beat bet. The only time I would really be worried about lightning is if I were caught on an exposed ridgeline during a storm.