Religion on trail

[weary]

...and people still debate something they WILL NEVER BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND.... The human race is no where near evolved enough to comprehend the vastness of spirit and being. I don't wish to hear bible and god talk just as I don't want to hear a used car salesman or an advert for tampax/viagra. It's all annoying and is a waste of my time.

No problem of universal importance has ever been solved without discussion. Even used car salemen are useful, when I go to the garage and quote their claims, from time to time, in an effort to get a lower price. Generations of women have benefited from advertisements for tampax. Those who heard about them and have tried them seem to think that they are both effective and more comfortable than rags, corncobs, old newsprint, and other traditional substances.

Why even I can attest that reading the ads, and as a result having used viagra, that, though not as useful as being young, is still beneficial. How and why is beyond me. Just having heard about the product and finding as a result that it works is useful.

So if anyone wants to tell me about their experience with the "vastness of spirit and being" I say welcome. I'll listen as long as what you say is not sheer nonsense. And then I'll turn you off, as I have so many others.

[TheRaven]

No problem of universal importance has ever been solved without discussion. Even used car salemen are useful, when I go to the garage and quote their claims, from time to time, in an effort to get a lower price. Generations of women have benefited from advertisements for tampax. Those who heard about them and have tried them seem to think that they are both effective and more comfortable than rags, corncobs, old newsprint, and other traditional substances.

Why even I can attest that reading the ads, and as a result having used viagra, that, though not as useful as being young, is still beneficial. How and why is beyond me. Just having heard about the product and finding as a result that it works is useful.

So if anyone wants to tell me about their experience with the "vastness of spirit and being" I say welcome. I'll listen as long as what you say is not sheer nonsense. And then I'll turn you off, as I have so many others.

and yet some people choose to watch television, even if they are knowingly blasted and brainwashed by popular culture. I for one choose not to see that stuff because eventually it will begin to sway you...even if it only a little. I prefer to choose, think and decide on my own terms without outside influence of advertisements, be it a mythical profit or an ad for a robot that can wash dishes. The most dangerous person for any institution be it government or religion is a person who can think for themselves.

[hikerboy57]

to be open to the exchange of ideas is completely healthy and necessary for humanity to evolve.I watch television, mostly science , discovery and history channels, I rarely watch the news, and when it comes to opinon pages, I try to read enough to give me some balance in determining my own opinion. But for anyone, myself included, to suggest that their view is the only "right"view, smacks of arrogance, and that those who claim to "know god" know nothing. I can always learn a lot more from someone who disagrees with me, rather than having everyone on the same page. and the world would become a very bring place.
Along wiith cookerhiker, lets celebrate our differences this 4th, and understand that when we look beyond our differences and align our strengths, there is nothing we cant accomplish.

[johnnybgood]

I've seen discussions on the subject of regilion ,much like here become embrioled in condecending remarks that only tear one another down instead of understanding how our lives weave together and how we can learn from each other.
If there were a discussion of religion on the trail I would probably be a passive participate . The most wise are those that keep closed mouths and open minds while learning in life's classroom. There was a time when I was a deacon of my church , 9 years to be exact, so I've been involved in many bibical discussions . On the trail I'd stay clear of those trying to belittle or denounce my religious beliefs but listen to those who may have a different take on it.

[SassyWindsor]

I believe in Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny, they're real too, right? The church would throw Xmas parties when I was a child, they had me believing that Santa was a real person. Could they have been lying?

[Bear Cables]

And here I was thinking the great commission for Christians was from Matthew 22-- "Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."P.S. You left out the rest of your commission to the Apostles, about them picking up serpents and drinking poisons and laying on hands.

That is the Great Commandment. Go forth and preach the gospel is the Great Commission. I like St. Francis's quote of "Preach the Gospel at all times and if necessary, use words." we show more with our actions and the way we treat others that any words can.

[Tuckahoe]

Being a person that does not subscribe to any particular religious belief, I am actually not offended by any talk of religion or by the desire someone might have to save my soul. I am much more offended by those that believe that religion should be private and never talked about.

[weary]

and yet some people choose to watch television, even if they are knowingly blasted and brainwashed by popular culture. I for one choose not to see that stuff because eventually it will begin to sway you...even if it only a little. I prefer to choose, think and decide on my own terms without outside influence of advertisements, be it a mythical profit or an ad for a robot that can wash dishes. The most dangerous person for any institution be it government or religion is a person who can think for themselves.

Well, I don't watch much popular television. But I do watch the evening news, on one of the commercial stations, as well as on public television. Nova, Frontline and a number of other public television programs are excellent sources of information. Even 60 Minutes is good most weeks, though Andy Rooney appearances are becoming rarer and rarer, which is sad.

More to the point of this thread, I've uncovered a book that I've been looking for and thinking about since the thread began. It's the "Reading The Bible for the First Time, by Marcus Borg, a professor at Oregon State. It treats the historical record, compares it with the Bible accounts, and sugests that most of the best loved stories of miracles and such should be treated as metaphors, not actual happenings.

The book was used as the text for a class taught by the young pastor of the church across the bay from my house, which my wife attends. When I read it, it struck me as the only "thinking persons" interpretation of the Christian Bible that makes sense.

[Manwich]

...and people still debate something they WILL NEVER BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND.... The human race is no where near evolved enough to comprehend the vastness of spirit and being. I don't wish to hear bible and god talk just as I don't want to hear a used car salesman or an advert for tampax/viagra. It's all annoying and is a waste of my time.

The "spirit" and "being" are human words that become as vast and uncomprehending as the words we use to describe it. You may think that an "artist nailing" pants to a wall is vast, pure and deep, I think he's just a tool trying to be different.

KISS; Keep it simple, stupid: They're simply two words many people ascribe more meaning to than needed. "Being" is best described as the stuff inside your skin and "spirit" being how your emotions (Dopamine, Serotonin and other monoamine neurotransmitters) balance their levels with your minds primal needs (See Maslows Hierarchy of Needs) and your inner dialogue / mind's eye.

People putting these words on a pedestal are likely the ones to believe in afterlives... mostly because they are too narcissistic to imagine a world without themselves.

[Manwich]

More to the point of this thread, I've uncovered a book that I've been looking for and thinking about since the thread began. It's the "Reading The Bible for the First Time, by Marcus Borg, a professor at Oregon State. It treats the historical record, compares it with the Bible accounts, and sugests that most of the best loved stories of miracles and such should be treated as metaphors, not actual happenings.

In my opinion, the best way to interpret the bible, koran, torah and other holytexts is just like Aesop's Fables. You get the same lessons without the divine commandment to stone your neighbors for something trivial.

[Cookerhiker]

Well, I don't watch much popular television. But I do watch the evening news, on one of the commercial stations, as well as on public television. Nova, Frontline and a number of other public television programs are excellent sources of information. Even 60 Minutes is good most weeks, though Andy Rooney appearances are becoming rarer and rarer, which is sad.

More to the point of this thread, I've uncovered a book that I've been looking for and thinking about since the thread began. It's the "Reading The Bible for the First Time, by Marcus Borg, a professor at Oregon State. It treats the historical record, compares it with the Bible accounts, and sugests that most of the best loved stories of miracles and such should be treated as metaphors, not actual happenings.

The book was used as the text for a class taught by the young pastor of the church across the bay from my house, which my wife attends. When I read it, it struck me as the only "thinking persons" interpretation of the Christian Bible that makes sense.

Marcus Borg has been involved in bible research of this nature for years. I haven't read any of his works but I've read articles about the studies he and his colleagues have done. Another scholar who would appeal to you is Bart Ehrmann who's on the the faculty of University of North Carolina. I've heard him interviewed on radio and viewed some of his DVDs. Among his points are that no 2 existing copies of ancient New Testaments are identical. As a result of coping and re-copying and re-copying over the centuries, changes have been made. Some are minor, some are not. His DVD series also narrates the first 3 centuries of Christianity, how some books came to be included in the canon while some did not, and all the competing interpretations during those times of what Christianity was all about.

[TheRaven]

People putting these words on a pedestal are likely the ones to believe in afterlives... mostly because they are too narcissistic to imagine a world without themselves.

Interesting perspective, never looked at it this way....I do believe in afterlives because I do not believe in a heaven or hell, supreme beings god or devil. Something makes us tick, and whatever it is I cannot grasp with my lower (human) form of psyche. I do not believe that I as a whole is reborn as something else...but my "spirit" is scattered and pieces of it help form new beings....hence defending my belief that a human is no better than a dragonfly. My now deceased grandparents spirit may have made up some part of that dragonfly so it's life needs to be respected, not killed as "some insect".

If a person wishes to involve christianity let me put it this way. " God is a spirit or life force, his son, Jesus part of that spirit came down to earth and lived. Then Jesus died, the spirit dissipated to become part of a new life, and as some would like to believe parts of them.

Nothing is ever created or destroyed, just reformed into new designs.

[hikerboy57]

Does conciousness exist outside the body? How did the human race become self-aware? Do dolphins have selfawareness? are we unique in this regard.?Is there a "sixth sense" and what is it?Is space and time 4 dimensional, or are there other dimensions beyond these?Does time exist?what is "dark matter"?
When I was 18 I had all the answers.the longer I live, the more questions I come up with.
But do we really need all the answers?

[TheRaven]

ever notice how some insects seem aware, and other don't? e.x. A lady bug is seemingly oblivious while a long horn beetle or jumping spider plays peek-a-boo. Makes a person think about such things.

Sorry for the insect references constantly, but they are the seemingly the only group of being people have no problem typically killing.

[hikerboy57]

You can kill em all you want. insects outnumber mankind by about 1000000 to 1.cockroaches were here long before man, and will be here long after we're gone.Kafka anyone?

[weary]

.....I do not believe that I as a whole is reborn as something else...but my "spirit" is scattered and pieces of it help form new beings....hence defending my belief that a human is no better than a dragonfly. My now deceased grandparents spirit may have made up some part of that dragonfly so it's life needs to be respected, not killed as "some insect".

If a person wishes to involve christianity let me put it this way. " God is a spirit or life force, his son, Jesus part of that spirit came down to earth and lived. Then Jesus died, the spirit dissipated to become part of a new life, and as some would like to believe parts of them.

Nothing is ever created or destroyed, just reformed into new designs.

An interesting belief. But the validity of it, we probably can never know. You don't cite any evidence to support your belief. And I can't think what possible evidence there could be that could be investigated by humans or other creatures.

I would prefer to think that my "spirit", if such exists, goes into other humans, rather than into corn ear worms. But I'm not holding my breath. I prefer legacies that I can see while I'm still alive. It's a comforting feeling -- maybe even a spiritual feeling -- for instance, to know that I helped a little bit to protect, Abraham, a mountain in Maine that is adjacent to the Appalachian Trail, and to protect land near my home that people will be able to walk on and enjoy for a few years, at least, after I'm gone.

[hikerboy57]

"in wildness is the preservation of the world"-Henry David Thoreau.
Thank you, weary for your efforts.
My sister once told me she wondered what her purpose was in life. I told her she didnt have to know,that she was alreaady living her "purpose". Life just is. nothing more.
There are so many mysteries of the universe, maybe we werent meant to have all the answers.

[TheRaven]

That is the thing about beliefs, Weary; there is no evidence or way of supporting it. Christians call it faith. What I believe is the only thing that makes sense to me, I would not expect another person to believe it...but, I will live it. Be my spirit enter a mozzie which a hiker kills, another human, or a raven so be it. The spirit keeps things going and "ticking" through time.

[weary]

That is the thing about beliefs, Weary; there is no evidence or way of supporting it. Christians call it faith. What I believe is the only thing that makes sense to me, I would not expect another person to believe it...but, I will live it. Be my spirit enter a mozzie which a hiker kills, another human, or a raven so be it. The spirit keeps things going and "ticking" through time.

I know, some beliefs just show up in our minds. Some we reason over. Some are based on some factual evidence. Some are based on overwhelming evidence. I sense I have some of each.

[TheRaven]

I know, some beliefs just show up in our minds. Some we reason over. Some are based on some factual evidence. Some are based on overwhelming evidence. I sense I have some of each.

I look at it like this when judging a religion...if it is not the cause or justification of war or some other horrific act it's OK in my book.