Smokey Mountain Stealth hiking

[sourwood]

In the book "Hiking Trails of the Great Smoky Mountains" there is a description of the "trail" above Ramsay Cascade to the AT. It basically follows the stream bed or hollow up to the AT. Sounds like there is some dense rhodo to navigate through, but it also sounds like the stream has some beautiful falls and pools above the Cascades. I have done the 5 mile out and back hike. It is an easy hike, some on old roads and there is usually a crowd. However, it is worth it to see the trees along the trail. There are huge black cherries, chestnut oaks, silverbell, and tulip poplars. The Cascades are pretty spectacular also.

Julie

[BeaverTrapper]

Sounds like there is some dense rhodo to navigate through, but it also sounds like the stream has some beautiful falls and pools above the Cascades

Very dense stuff up there. Never ran into another person. It gets cold up there, even in summer. I stuck mainly in the creekbed itself. Slippery stuff. Wouldn't want to do it in winter, thats for sure. It kinda gave me a brief glimpse into what this country must have been like a long, long time ago. I just got the feeling that I was in a place where no man had left his mark before. Kind of serene, but kind of disconcerting at the same time. I never made it all the way to the AT. I sorta stopped at one of the pools and just couldn't find a reason to keep moving. At places it was hand over hand climbing, not hiking.

Terrible, ugly place. Not worth the walk.

[Bumpman]

Now that's one I'd be interested in. I've always wanted to visit Ramsey Cascades on a trip, but as its on a 5mile "dead-end" route, I never could find a means to squeeze it in. I've often wondered why its not connected to the rest of the nearby trails.

There is a trail up to the AT from what I've read, but I've never tried it. If you are ever looking for a great day hike in the Smokys I would recommend Ramsay Cascades. It's about an 8 mile round trip and the falls are well worth it.

[silvereagle]

I have hiked 2 of the "manways" mentioned here. The one from Porters Creek to the A/T is extrememly dangerous, It was nuts to attempt it. I would recommend use of safety gear if you plan on doing it. You will be on your hands and knees most of the way, through thick brush, snakes, bugs, mud, and rocks. Steep rocks. Attempt in the winter, when the risk of running across a snake is minimal. However, you run the risk of foul weather. Take the good with the bad. It's your choice. The hike from Ramsay Cascades to the A/T (Mt Guyot) isn't nearly as bad, with a great special reward along the way (you have to see it to believe it), lots of brush, and the other forementioned critters. Short in length though. Seriously, if you do the Porter Creek manway, follow ALL the sane safety precautions first.

[HikerHobo]

Google has a great map system that uses satellite images merged with conventional maps. Go to http://earth.google.com/ and download the google earth program. You can then go to search "Great Smoky Mountain National Park" and see satellite images of the park and areas that you are considering exploring... very impressive technology, available today.

[samfsmith]

Way back in 1991 I explored the Hazel Creek area pretty extensively, camping at the designated campsites along Hazel Creek, Bone Valley, and Eagle Creek. I looked up the old cabin site where Horace Kephart first stayed when he came to the Smokys, at the old copper mine on the little fork of the Sugar Fork. There are at least three mines still there, as well as the remains of two steam engines. Not locomotives, but stationary engines used to turn winches.

One of the engines I found was unknown to the park service, or at least forgotten. I told them about it and led a group of them in to look at it. As far as I know it's still sitting there, hidden in the rhododendron west of Bone Valley. The boiler was about eight feet tall, the engine a small five horsepower Orr and Sembower from the 1910s. There was a newspaper article in my local paper, and I've got some nice old pictures.

To get back on topic, I never had special permission to explore. I always had camping permits. When I contacted them with my "find" they didn't give me a hassle at all, but were interested in what I had found. Of course this all happened 15 years ago.

In a place like Hazel Creek, once home to a couple of thousand people, there are old roads and trails everywhere. Stay in a designated campsite and explore. Start simple so you don't become a problem for rescue personnel and until you get confident with map and compass. Anyway that's my advice - for what it's worth.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

I did a lot of cross-country bushwacking in the GSMNP in my younger days. The rangers weren't quite as vigilant about searching out those camping off the trail back then. Today, they tend to show up if you build a fire, but rarely find those who are truly stealth and at least a mile off a trail.



That bing said - remember this park has some of the most treacherous terrain in the SE US. Cross-country hiking in such terrain should only be attempted by those with expert skills in all aspects of backcountry survival and navigation and who are physically fit enough to endure the rigors that will be faced. I'd add a fair amount of common sense to the list of must haves before hiking off-trail.

[sliderule]

All that Sgt Rock quoted is not only true, it is enforced by a number of people in the park. This includes rangers, pig hunters, and ATC ridge runners.

Interestingly, only NPS Park Rangers with law enforcement authority can "enforce" the regulations. The rest, including interpretive rangers, management rangers, boar hunters, ridge runners and caretakers, can "educate" but do not have enforcement authority.

[robin31]

Ud Be Surpised On What One Wud Find Upem Hallors...

[tombone]

over the years i've come to some conclusions about this subject. bushwacking is hard work, and adding elevation change makes it even tougher. yes, there are some old trails, roads, traces and logging grades. some have remained clear but all have enjoyed the regrowth of 80+ years since the park was established. lately we've suffered through blights that have knocked down firs, spruces, pines and most recently, hemlocks. this has really added to the difficulty of offtrail travel. when these trees come down, you climb over and under them and whatever else they have brought down. and you combat whatever grows in the new window in the forest. often it is something with briars, and is thick. great place for critters, especially nests of stinging insects. you won't see the nest until they've hit you, often more than once. and you can't just run from them. they take comfort and refuge in places where you can't see your feet and where you have to push the vegetation away from your face. these nests can hang from any kind of branch or be concealed in trees, between rocks or in a hole in the ground. add some moisture or go below freezing and now you've got slippery surfaces of all angles. if you bruise easily or tend to break bones or even twist appendages, don't go. help will be hard to come by-it will take a long time to reach you, and the attitude has shifted toward placing the responsibility on the hiker, especially if there is evidence of stupidity, substance abuse, etc. translate: you could be financially liable for a rescue operation. i have found that it is much easier to carry only the gear that i need to do offtrail DAYhikes with a small, frameless pack rather than toting everything i need to spend the night in the woods, especially with offtrail camping restrictions as they are. and it is nice to come out of the woods after a long day-beaten up, scratched everywhere and sometimes bruised, tired, hungry and sore-to the comforts that we enjoy in civilization. that being said, there are some great places offtrail in gsmnp and i've got many more on the list, and a wonderful network of fellow bushwackers who continue to explore the farthest reaches. study maps of differing scales, compare the old maps to the new ones, read the histories of the coves and intermountain travel-these things create offtrail success. start with small treks so that you build confidence and endurance. i continue to be surprised at the variety of flora in gsmnp-sometimes rhodo and/or laurel thickets extend for miles while in other similar places the forest is wide open. you can't predict what grows in a certain drainage, hollow or ridgeline based on compass direction, location in the park, proximity to a 'known' area or elevation. nor can you predict how rocky an area might be. i've walked offtrail with concrete expectations based on prior trips, word of mouth, recollections, maps, and what i believe to be common sense, only to have those expectations dashed by the reality of a really beautiful and delightfully varied environment. i've made some mistakes, been lucky on numerous occasions and have recklessly endangered myself and others. i also am grateful that as the body ages, the mind is able to replace some of the above with the wisdom that comes from surviving decades of offtrail experiences while not becoming burned out on it due to injury or misfortune. i'm also very reluctant to suggest routes or destinations because everyone has unique tolerances and expectations. you might go through several offtrail companions before you find someone who has a compatible demeanor, rate of travel, and goals. i've broken the 'don't go alone' rule often, and might regret that sooner rather than later. the reality is that it is hard to find someone who is available and willing to do the things that are required to get to the destinations that might be nothing more than an elevation 'x' on a quad map or an interesting place name that is several miles from a road or trail.

happy off trails!

[sarnott]

I have been backpacking off the trail before in Red River Gorge, this place is in the hills of eastern kentucky. We camped next to a huge rock wall.

[TIDE-HSV]

of permitted off-trail hikes in the Abrams Creek area. I've also explored above Ramsay Cascades, but not all the way up. The worst off-trail was missing the Porter Flat Manway to the left and almost not surving the scree slopes. I finally found out what Kephart was talking about with walking on rhododendron. I always thought he meant the tops, but, when it's growing straight downhill, the trunks are almost horizontal and you can walk on them. I used that technique to get to the ridge of Porter Mtn, where there's a narrow pig trail leading south to the AT. My main fear then was that the spur ridge would take one of those 200' up swoops to get to the main ridge, but, thankfully, I could just step down about 4" to the AT. I turned right and ran into my erstwhile hiking partner, who had gone up the correct way. He looked like he'd seen a ghost and managed to stammer out "What are you doing here." He told me later that what he thought was that, if I were there, then he was in the wrong place (he was heading for Peck's Corner). I managed to talk him in to taking the manway back down to Porter's Flat with me and that was also an interesting trip...

[SawnieRobertson]

Do y'all have any idea how many humans have disappeared in Smoky? I mean, totally disappeared forever.--Kinnickiinic

[SGT Rock]

Nope, but someday I aspire to be one of them