Total Miss-information both in the food stores and on the internet about food and fat

[Wise Old Owl]

I walked into Acme yesterday and discovered a disparity of miss-information and pricing about chicken breast meat. I found the manager and discussed with her why two versions of quality Acme Chicken Meat was three dollars apart and one was labeled "Signature" because it was lower in fat... (not enough to justify) it was the same damn chicken trimmed a little better as she informed me.

Folks I cannot begin to describe how if you have a diet of no fat - you would die! its called Rabbit Fever by the folks that endured the gold rush. Eat a diet of rabbit and other whole foods and you would not last a year. Fat is important. Eating Fat in moderation will not make you fat. Even if you could buy top quality red meat (you won't find that at ACME) its MARBLED! Prime is better than top round because of it higher fat content. The most exspensive meat on the market Kobe is fine grain marbled and the American is WAGYU! Try and buy that at your local store... it tastes better because of the fat content. This is why cuts taste better at the restaurants vs what you home bbq.

The fat doesn't make you fat - its your metabolism, Alcohol screws up the behavior of metabolism. 40+ years ago people welcomed the return of hard liquor because it low in empty calories but sends the metabolism down..suppressing it. Want Proof? head over to ANY old folks home and look into the recycle bin... its full of hard liquor bottles. Why do they call it the golden years?

Beer - its very hard to transport before refrigerated cars. Hense the west was skinny and addicted to fatty beef & hard liquor. They ate chicken too, but worked like dogs all day consuming 1000's of calories a day.

Beer came and there is no denying the beer belly...High in calories and suppression of the metabolism - fat goes right to the belly, because you don't have to eat and still gain weight.

People are so screwed up with miss-information that they stand in front of nutritionists and say I don't eat red meat, I eat turkey, chicken and other lean meats and look for confirmation for doing a good thing... WRONG.

Check this out....

by Monica Reinagel, M.S.,L.D./N.
Turkey and Chicken Myths

Last weekend, I was relaxing with the Sunday paper and came across a story on how to take your favorite comfort foods and make them lighter. For the article, a famous TV chef had adapted some recipes to make them healthier. Her first recipe makeover was for sloppy joes, and to “lighten them up,” she replaced ground beef with ground turkey. That’s it.

How does making sloppy joes with ground turkey make them healthier? I guess that’s what happens when you ask chefs for nutrition advice.

Hidden Nutritional Bombs

I know tons of people who suffer from this same misconception. They proudly tell me that they never eat red meat. They substitute ground turkey or chicken in anything that calls for ground beef. They also eat turkey bacon, turkey sausage, turkey bologna, and turkey hot dogs instead of the regular kind. Having told me all this, they lower their eyes modestly and wait for me to commend them for their nutritional virtue. Never mind all the sodium, nitrates, preservatives, and saturated fat in that turkey bacon: at least it’s not pork. You know what? That’s just a bunch of turkey boloney. Cold cuts, bacon, and sausages made from turkey or chicken may contain just as much of that stuff as their traditional counterparts. In fact, regardless of what kind of meat went into them, the low-fat versions of these foods are often even higher in sodium than the regular-fat varieties.

It’s True: Chicken Breasts Are Low in Fat

Where did everybody get the idea that turkey and chicken are automatically healthier than beef or pork, anyway? I’m not sure, but I have a theory. Some time ago, the powers that be decided that it would be good for people to reduce the amount of fat they eat, especially animal fat. And someone—perhaps someone in the chicken farming industry?—pointed out that a boneless, skinless chicken breast is very low in fat. ]And it is. If you replace a broiled strip steak with the same amount of boneless, skinless chicken breast, you cut the fat by about 75%. So far, so good. But somehow people have latched on to the idea that chicken and turkey are inherently healthier than beef or pork. They’re not.


She is right on many counts - I like her article...one thing that was missed outside of the excerpt - she quoted white breast meat was lower in fat than a leg, skin off she would be wrong... dark meat is dark because it's lower in fat. The legs do all the work and the fat goes to the breast & belly of the bird.

So how does this relate to the trail? Sodium and Nitrates are bad for you, Old Nagalene bottles and Gatorade are bad too...


Proteins and fats are good for the trail. Fat is high quick energy just under a sugar rush! High salt contents are to be avoided, even on a hot day... Salt Sense and low sodium foods are better. We have read detailed reports from thru hikers that junk food is easier to get a quick burn and not worry about the weight... (hmmm sounds like Katz wrote that) Dried foods, Home made Pemmican and Jerkys - dried fruits, Snickers are really the way to go and get there. You should have one balanced dinner per day,

so I post this to have a discussion, both pro and con... lets tear this apart and find out what really works for hikers after giving up on Freeze Dried garbage.


In short when was the last time you took an apple or a piece of beef to hike?

[Feral Bill]

Good rant, WOO

[Just a Hiker]

I've always considered long distance hiking a "License to Eat"; therefore, I have never been concerned with where my calories came from. However, I do try and eat right when I'm in town.

[Odd Man Out]

The rabbit fever wasn't strictly from eating no fats. It was from eating only protein. There are three macronutrients (carbohydrates, fats and protein). Carbohydrates or fats can provide all the energy you need. So a low fat diet with only protein and carbs would be OK, with the minor exception that there are some essential fatty acids that your body can't make so they have to be in your diet.

That being said, the notion of fats are evil, sugar is evil, beer is evil, etc... as a way to better nutrition is not the way to go. Beer doesn't make you fat. Too much beer makes you fat. Same with fats, sugars, etc. Good nutrition doesn't come in the form of a pill. It's really very simple:

Exercise a lot. Eat and drink lots of different things. Don't eat and drink too much. Consume fresh foods and beer. Eat colorful foods. Don't be afraid of your food.

[HiKen2011]

Watch this movie, it's on netflix.........Forks over Knives

[Wise Old Owl]

Odd Man Out interesting different take - good post!

[oddbird]

I like the idea of seeing what works. What do you consider a "balanced meal"?

I am trying to prepare for a thru hike in 2012, and would be interested in a good pemmican recipe, or hard tack. I am highly sensitive to gluten and dairy, so I will be making most of my food. I pretty much live on fat and protein, and low carbs.

It will be interesting to follow this thread.

Thanks.

[moytoy]

Ok, overall I like your "rant" But I have to disagree with it in part.

I QUOTE
"one thing that was missed outside of the excerpt - she quoted white breast meat was lower in fat than a leg, skin off she would be wrong... dark meat is dark because it's lower in fat. The legs do all the work and the fat goes to the breast & belly of the bird."

I've searched the web and I can't find anywhere that gives the fat content of chicken breast higher than that of dark meat. Do you have anything to support your claim?

[Kiyu]

The best site I have found for that stuff http://www.calorieking.com/.

[glaux]

I think low fat diets became popular because there are more calories per volume in fat than in starch, so people got the idea that they could eat a whole stack of rice cakes before meeting the caloric content of a couple bites of peanut butter. The problem is that fat makes you feel full and starch does not, so dieters would fill up on cartons of snackwell cookies at a time, and not get the results they hoped for.

I used to be a fan of Dr. Atkins, until I learned that my body does need a bit of carbs and starch for various functions. All things in moderation is the key.

[T-Dubs]

Watch this movie, it's on netflix.........Forks over Knives

But read this first:
http://rawfoodsos.com/2011/09/22/for...que/#more-1487

Or this one:
http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the...act-or-fallac/

The China Study isn't all it's cracked up to be in terms of validating veggie/vegan diets.

[Odd Man Out]

For OddBird, I consider a balance diet to be one where you eat a variety of stuff. A lot of "diets" are based on eating certain foods in certain combinations (the grapefruit diet, the tofu diet, the "eat fish on rainy thursday diet, etc...). I suspect that is all rubbish. Just eat a variety of foods and don't worry about it. As I said, there are three basic kinds of macronutrients. These are the foods you digest to provide energy (catabolism) and the foods that provide the building blocks to make things (anabolism). These are fats, proteins, and carbs. As long as you are eating all of these, you probably don't need to worry about having too much of one or not enough of another. The idea that one food is good or bad is nonsense. If you eat only protein you die. If you eat no protein, you die. So what do you do? Eat a little of everything. Also, eating a variety of things protects you from having an incomplete diet. If you are a vegetarian and eat only grains, you will be missing certain amino acids in your protein. If you eat only legumes, you will miss others. If you eat a variety, you get them all (note that meat and dairy proteins are usually have all the amino acids, so the carnivores need not worry about that problem).

Also for OddBird, you can get by on only fat and protein, but it will make your metabolism a bit inefficient. You must have some carbohydrates in your blood at all time. Some tissues (most notably the brain), needs blood sugar (glucose) to keep going. This is why you get dizzy when you are hypoglycemic. Your brain just starts to shut off. If you are not eating carbohydrates (sugar), then your body had to make its own to keep a constant blood glucose level to keep your brain working. As it turns out, you can not make glucose from fats, so that leaves only the protein in your diet that is able to make glucose. However, it takes energy to turn protein into sugar (plus you have to get rid of the excess nitrogen as urea, which takes more energy). The energy comes from burning the fat. BTW, this is the reason why you starve to death on protein-only diets - although you can get some energy from catabolizing protein, there is a limit to how much you can do in a day, and if that is your only energy source, you can't get enough from protein catabolism to give you enough energy to turn the rest of the protein into the sugar you need. So what do you do? Eat a balance diet. Carbs to give you the sugar you must have, protein to support anabolism of muscles and enzymes, and fats for energy.

As for the fat in chicken question, I'm not sure about the fat content of white meat vs dark meat. But dark meat is dark because it contains myoglobin, an oxygen binding protein similar to hemoglobin in your red blood cells. If you cut into an uncooked steak, you may notice that the meat on the outside is a different color than the meat on the inside. This is because the meat on the outside is exposed to more oxygen and the myoglobin changes color when it binds oxygen. White meat in chicken and turkey is white because it has relatively little myoglobin. These muscle cells are adapted for doing anaerobic metabolism. Anaerobic metabolism can generate useful energy at a faster rate than aerobic muscles, but it does it inefficiently and only for a short period of time. This is why sprinters run faster than marathoners. They are using more anaerobic metabolism to generate energy more rapidly. But this is inefficient and can only be sustained for a short race (100 to 200 m). Marathoners run aerobically at a slower pace, but one that can be sustained almost indefinitely. So why do turkeys have white meat in their legs and white meat in the breast? That is because they fly like sprinters and run like marathoners. Turkeys are so heavy and such poor fliers, that that only way they can generate enough energy to get off the ground is to have flight muscles (breast muscles) that do the rapid anaerobic metabolism. As a result, they can't fly very far. But they do fly up into the trees at night to roost (I saw that in Zion NP a few years ago), or they might fly short distances to escape a predator. But to travel long distances (aerobically), they have to walk and use their aerobically adapted (i.e. myoglobin rich and dark colored) leg muscles. Note that you don't see large flocks of turkeys flying south for the winter. They couldn't do that. But if you have duck or goose for Thanksgiving diner, you would notice that the duck breast and goose breast is also dark meat. Migratory birds must be marathon fliers, so they must also have aerobically adapted flight (breast) muscles.

One last thing, anaerobic metabolism can't burn fat. This only works on carbs. Aerobic metabolism burs fats and carbs. So it would make sense that white meat would be lower in fat, but on the other hand, the fat burned by the aerobic dark meat could be stored in other parts of the animal and transported to the muscles in the blood. I don't know enough bird physiology to know which happens.

[Pedaling Fool]

I hate white meat. I like chocolate milkshakes.

[hikerboy57]

gluten free seems to be the latest food trend, with everything from water to orange juice now labeled "gluten free".
Personally, I love gluten, wish it could be packaged separately

[T-Dubs]

gluten free seems to be the latest food trend, with everything from water to orange juice now labeled "gluten free".
Personally, I love gluten, wish it could be packaged separately

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat_gluten_%28food%29 <-- Seitan?

[1234]

Nothing beats poptarts for breakfast. cashews and m & m's all day and a pasta for 4 all for yourself for dinner adding a bag of tuna or chicken. In town most head for pizza and beer. I head to the the market, eggs and steak. I eat a dozen eggs a day in town and boil a dozen to take back on the trail. Try to eat all the red meat I can in town. If I tried to hike on jerky and dried fruit I would wear out my teeth and get Charlie horses in my jaw. You know quickly what folks do not want by looking in the hiker boxes. The stuff they are full of is what hikers do not want. If I ate rice, oatmeal and dehydrated stuff I bet I could make it to Maine without spending a dime. Your body will speak to you if you are not eating right, like in overuse injuries. Just my take for better or not.

[hikerboy57]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat_gluten_(food) <-- Seitan?

this is great news, as I work in an area surrounded by asian food markets!looking forward to my first gluten bacon cheeseburger(baconcheeseglutenburger?)

[oddbird]

gluten free seems to be the latest food trend, with everything from water to orange juice now labeled "gluten free".
Personally, I love gluten, wish it could be packaged separately

Personally I have nothing against those who love gluten, but for me it is not a trend or fad. I get very ill when I am exposed to small amounts of gluten and dairy. I wish it were not so, but that is how my body works. Check out the baking section sometime, and you will find bags of gluten. Enjoy!

[hikerboy57]

Personally I have nothing against those who love gluten, but for me it is not a trend or fad. I get very ill when I am exposed to small amounts of gluten and dairy. I wish it were not so, but that is how my body works. Check out the baking section sometime, and you will find bags of gluten. Enjoy!

oddbird, absolutely no offense was intended, as I know several people who cannot ingest gluten. rather, its becoming the norm to tout "benefits" that dont actually exist. Next time you go to the grocery store, look at how many foods that never had gluten in the first place are now labelled "gluten free". its corporate greed catering to peoples need to feel healthier about the crap they eat.the intentional misinformation is what upsets me.
But for me, give me gluten.

[Wise Old Owl]

Ok, overall I like your "rant" But I have to disagree with it in part.

I QUOTE
"one thing that was missed outside of the excerpt - she quoted white breast meat was lower in fat than a leg, skin off she would be wrong... dark meat is dark because it's lower in fat. The legs do all the work and the fat goes to the breast & belly of the bird."

I've searched the web and I can't find anywhere that gives the fat content of chicken breast higher than that of dark meat. Do you have anything to support your claim?

No - you have me - I read it years ago in a survival book .... However - lets look at a typical Turkey - or Rabbit and remember meat has marbled or fat that is white. All the legs are dark because of less visible fat, meat high in fat is visually lighter - example veal where no exercise is possible. It is a simple judgement based on color. IF you don't believe me fry up dark meat and white side by side slowly with a cover - the fat will melt out more on one side.... about 250 degrees