My cholesterol went down 70 points on thyroid therapy, from really lousy to quite acceptable. My diet didn't change much.Originally Posted by hikerboy57
Quilteresq
2013, hopefully.
First off. lemons are heavy, juicing them correctly on trail would be a nightmare, not to mention you need about 15 lemons a day to make enough juice.
Second. Grade B Maple Syrup is heavy, and usually comes in a glass or metal container. This is heavy, and will get sticky with your measuring, etc.
Third. Resupply for these two ingredients can be a problem, and the amount of lemon peels you will leave behind (hopefully you will pack them out) will be significant - lemons don't biodegrade easily (most citrus takes longer).
Fourth. Your Senna Tea you must drink at night, and the ensuing one quart of water in the a.m. with sea/celtic salt is really crucial to removing toxins along the way. It's a hassle at home to have this sort of bout of "bowel drama" let alone on trail. Your water also has to be filtered, this is A LOT of water, for juicing, for night senna tea and for your quart of salt water in the a.m.
Last but not least. This is going to drain you incredibly your first 3-5 days. The detox is fast, severe, and you can have one heck of a headache - especially if you're a coffee drinker and have not weaned down. Weaning down on your regular food is imperative too.
Try it at home first for ten days, then think about what this would be like on trail. IMHO - do it at home, the trail can be cleansing enough emotionally, physically and spiritually.
I wish you the best whatever your choice is!
ad astra per aspera
Well, sounds like you know alot about it. I am actually on day 16 right now and was thinking about going 30-40 days and going to the mountains on the last days. You're right, the first days are the hardest, and I wouldn't recommend anybody to try to backpack until your body has become used to the fast/master cleanse. I did two 8 hour days at a sawmill on my 12th and 13th day of the cleanse. Pretty strenuous labor. Nobody knew anything different, because I was working just as hard as the guys that had breakfast, lunch, and dinner. So I feel like the energy is there.First off. lemons are heavy, juicing them correctly on trail would be a nightmare, not to mention you need about 15 lemons a day to make enough juice.
Second. Grade B Maple Syrup is heavy, and usually comes in a glass or metal container. This is heavy, and will get sticky with your measuring, etc.
Third. Resupply for these two ingredients can be a problem, and the amount of lemon peels you will leave behind (hopefully you will pack them out) will be significant - lemons don't biodegrade easily (most citrus takes longer).
Fourth. Your Senna Tea you must drink at night, and the ensuing one quart of water in the a.m. with sea/celtic salt is really crucial to removing toxins along the way. It's a hassle at home to have this sort of bout of "bowel drama" let alone on trail. Your water also has to be filtered, this is A LOT of water, for juicing, for night senna tea and for your quart of salt water in the a.m.
Last but not least. This is going to drain you incredibly your first 3-5 days. The detox is fast, severe, and you can have one heck of a headache - especially if you're a coffee drinker and have not weaned down. Weaning down on your regular food is imperative too.
Try it at home first for ten days, then think about what this would be like on trail. IMHO - do it at home, the trail can be cleansing enough emotionally, physically and spiritually.
I wish you the best whatever your choice is!
Actually I'm only using 4 lemons per day right now for 6 glasses of lemonade, the minimum recommended ammount. I could do 12 and that would be 8 lemons per day. As for the maple syrup, I could always pour it in plastic bottles. I would need between 1 and 1-1/2 cups per day of the syrup, so that would be like 1/2 to 3/4 of a pound per day for syrup and about 1-1/2 pounds of lemons per day. So a little over two pounds per day. I also thought about squeezing enough lemon juice for the first two or three days. Wonder how long lemon juice would be good for? I was thinking just skipping the salt water flush, or just doing it every 2-3 days, because you're right, it is the most unpleasant part of it all. I'm not gonna be out there trying to make a new distance record, but just to enjoy myself and nature.
what would you do with all the used lemons. Once you have squeesed the juice out of them would you carry them out or just toss them.
Panzer
Why is it that toxin flushes never focus on the kidneys or liver, and fasts always involve foods that provide very little of the daily essential nutrients used for energy production, digestion, and living/breathing?
What ever happened to the thousand year old diet of eating whatever the hell you want, as long as you get the needed nutrients, and using the excess as energy for working out / hiking? Seems odd to me that so many people will fast and have no energy, saying that they feel like they have more energy than they did when they ate, yet forcing your body into one of the most grueling and health-restoring hike requires 3,000-4,000 calories a day.
I'll stop knocking on fasting because I don't know enough about it, just that I've heard more bad than good (still need to do more proper research), but there is one thing I feel I should mention to anyone fasting to lose weight (not that the original poster is): If you're trying to lose weight, the LAST thing you ever want to do is cut fat out of your diet. When you go long enough without fat, you get the benefits of a slowed down metabolism and slim down, but be prepared never to have fat again, or your body will hold onto any bit of fat you put in afterwards (our bodies are programmed to store fat after not having it for periods of time for 'hibernation', and fear that it won't get fat again for a while).
The secret to a healthy body weight is balance, not abstinence.
Need to go NOBO.
What would you do with them?
I don't believe in the "cleanse" nor would I suggest anyone do it while backpacking for obvious (to me, anyway) reasons.
However, if the OP wants to try it I'm going to give him a pass on all those lemons and maple syrup he's going to carry. Why? Everyone carries something that "stupid" - at least thats what others hikers think. I carried 3 books at all times on my thru (in additon to maps, state guidebooks, and a handbook.) I hiked for a while with a guy who carried a chair. Not one of the light thermarest convertable jobs. A deck type chair with an aluminum frame and nylon webbings. Someone else carried a plastic pink flamingo to "guard his tent" at tight. The lemons are the OPs stupid item.
For hiking LD ( I think you were considering 80 miles or so), I'd seriously consider upping your juice. Keep in mind the tea and the morning flush - without this, you can get seriously ill without the flushing action - you'll have no food to move thing along ( as you know now how it feels this many days in) and the weight loss could really do some damage when you're body starts using it's own protein (muscle) to feed itself.Actually I'm only using 4 lemons per day right now for 6 glasses of lemonade, the minimum recommended ammount.
So you're well into it now, and you know that you can be completely uninterested in drinking the liquids and that hunger can be almost non-existent at this point. I really would have to think that adding the physical stress of a hike during that long of a fast could damage you, and out there, you need your strength for so many factors you did not plan on. Hypothermia being your #1 enemy even when you're eating a regular diet, and without some real food this could escalate that danger.
Enjoy your cleanse, be careful and stay home for now, it's chilly out there!!
ad astra per aspera
I think the only responsible thing would be to carry them out. But of course that would add a certain amount of weight to your pack. But I thik the whole idea is not practical for long distance hiking.
You can loose weight just by hiking. You don't need any fancy diets on the trail. You just need to hike.
Panzer
I've actually been on a few week long backpacking trips, and have come to the strange realization that I eat LESS than I would sitting around the house. There is a thread going now about this. For some reason, it takes a week or so for that ravenous appetite to show up. I think it is because when you begin a hike, your body starts burning all those fat reserves in your body. I think in that respect fasting and backpacking have some commonalities. What I'm afraid of, is that I have already burned alot of those fat reserves off since fasting. I have a very nice six-pack going right now
What ever happened to the thousand year old diet of eating whatever the hell you want, as long as you get the needed nutrients, and using the excess as energy for working out / hiking?
Trust me, It's still out there. Just look around at all the overweight and obese people that are everywhere.
Tell me, where have you heard bad things about fasting? Is it from people who have fasted? Or is it from people who just like to knock anything that is different than what they are used to? People used to think the world was flat too. I've heard the thing about, "oh, it will mess up your metabolism and you will gain a bunch of weight when you stop" Baloney! I did a 21 day master cleanse about 2 years ago and lost 13 pounds. Went from 175 to 162. I gained back exactly what I lost. It was if I had never done it from a weight standpoint. I felt renewed and energized.
I doubt the overweight/obese people are using the excess as energy for working out like I said above.
And I heard bad from my nutritionist when I was trying to figure out how to change my metabolism to put on weight (I've been in the 150-155 range for about 8 years). That, and when my sister's friend tried doing a master cleanse and ended up at the doctors with gastro-intestinal problems after a 6-day stretch of following the diet to a T, I wrote it off.
But again, trying to be at least somewhat respectful, you forgot to quote me on the part where I said that I obviously hadn't done enough research on it to pass accurate judgement.
If you'd like to educate me, please do. I'll try to be more respectful in my next post and more open-minded. I just get turned away from all these posts about how great cleansing is where it sounds like an infomercial very vaguely talking about all the benefits, but no one can tell me why a diet of only cayenne peppers, vitamin c, ascorbic acid, and sugar is a healthy choice. And why were those chosen as the best cleansing materials (for toxins or fat)? It just sounds like intentional starving to me, but again: you know much more about it than I.
I'll never turn down a free education. Change my opinion and I'll change my diet; I promise.
Need to go NOBO.
Let's see,
A diet deficient in calories, proteins, amino acids, vitamins, minerals, fiber, and fat. So since the body requires-make that demands these nutrients-it starts converting what it has. It will convert some fat stores. But in other than low exertion situations, the body can't covert fat fast enough to keep up with demand, so it starts converting lean muscle as well. So if you are hiking (high exertion) and only supplying the body with a nutrient deficient diet, you will be converting not only stored fat but a lot of muscle mass as well to supply the body's need for nutrients. Add to that the additional demand for proteins and amino acids for muscle recovery / cell repair due to strenuous nature of hiking.
Yeah, this sounds healthy.
"That's the thing about possum innards - they's just as good the second day." - Jed Clampett
Yes it's very common; it actually took ~two weeks for my appetite to start to shoot upward. No, it's not because your body starts buring all those fat reserves. I still had ample fat when my appetite started climbing rapidly. It's the shock to your system of going from a sedentary lifestyle (relatively speaking) to hiking hours a day, day-after-day, not to mention going up and down hills with weight on your back.I've actually been on a few week long backpacking trips, and have come to the strange realization that I eat LESS than I would sitting around the house. There is a thread going now about this. For some reason, it takes a week or so for that ravenous appetite to show up. I think it is because when you begin a hike, your body starts burning all those fat reserves in your body. I think in that respect fasting and backpacking have some commonalities. What I'm afraid of, is that I have already burned alot of those fat reserves off since fasting. I have a very nice six-pack going right now
The ravenous appetite comes from basically starving yourself, much like fasting, except in this case you're tearing up your body, so it's even more important to get as many calories and nutrients in your body. So yes in sense hiking is much like fasting for most because every day is usually (I know it is for the way I hike) a deficit in calories, i.e. I always burn more calories than I take in. That's what leads to the hiker appetite.
Ok, I never said it was the best diet for backpacking. That's why I'm on here asking about it. I really would rather just drink nothing but water, but I get so weak. That's how I found out about the master cleanse. I was doing some research on fasting and came across it. Don't believe in fasting? Fine, join the majority. I knew when I posted this that the majority of people would be against it. One thing I've learned over the years though, is just because the majority of people believe one way or another, doesn't make them right. I know for a fact that fasting helps me. I can't describe exactly how, and I don't really want to. I feel lighter, calmer, more peaceful, healthier, more flexible, sleep better, more relaxed. My senses are sharper, my skin feels healtier, my eyes are bright and the whites are whiter than ever, my hair is softer and shiny. It's not just in my head either, because I've got a few compliments lately. I feel like I'm giving my body a rest and my mind becomes more clear. I love to eat too, and have been dreaming of eating a big steak and a lobster tail, or some hotwings, or some mexican food!!!! It all sounds so good. But I know it will still be there in 10, 20, 30, or 40 days. I suppose I'm like everybody else. I like what I like, and I don't what I don't. I enjoy taking a break from food and all the cooking, cleaning, shopping that is involved. Fasting is Biblical, so all the atheist can attack me now, but if you call yourself a Christian as I do, you should try to fast. Jesus and Moses both fasted for 40 days, and fasting is mentioned like 50 times in the Bible. It is scientific. Show me some negative studies. I'm sure I can come up with just as many positive studies. Just do a google search "benefits of fasting" You will see countless pages praising the benefits of it. I've been 21 days on lemonade, and some days I just drink water if I don't have much to do that day (like on my days off) So it's not gonna kill you to go one day without eating. Try it for yourself, you may be surprised. Or you can just continue to eat three meals a day, day after day, for the rest of your life. What's so great about that?
I've been waiting and watching to see where this goes.
Here is my medical opinion
Cleansing is BS yes you clean your colon which happens naturally anyhow if you have some fiber in the diet. Read the label on these products "not intended to diagnose or treat any condition" that is on there because there is not one study in a peer reviewed journal that shows any health benifit.
Now to debunk some of the reasons from earlier. Early medicine believed fasting was good........they also believed in blood letting and bad humours.
The Bible says it is good that i agree with but only for spiritual reasons.
Do I believe you feel as good as you say you do? absolutely. The placebo affect is between 20-50 percent with any drug or therapy. If you convince your brain you feel good then you do. For example numerous studies of high blood pressure medicine versus placebo. In the placebo group about 20 percent will have a drop in blood pressure with taking a active drug at all.
Now before you start discounted what I've said I've seen the insides of lots of colons (hundreds) and haven't seen a large pile of toxins or anything that needed cleansed.
Thats my .02
Doc Mike
Lead, Follow, or get out of the way. I'm goin hikin.
not to mention a whole new generation of new, improved placebos.I swear by them.
I'm indifferent about fasting; it's the claim by this "cleansing program" that one can only cleanse the system through the use of lemon juice, maple syrup, cayenne pepper, and water. That's simply just false. I can eat the biggest, fattest juciest steak and I guarantee it's not going to be in my system for 10 plus days. Both because of my active lifestyle and the abundant fiberous foods I eat. I know the "John Wayne" stories, but they're false http://www.snopes.com/horrors/gruesome/fecalcolon.asp. However, that's not to say that foodstuff does NOT get caught in the colon, it does. However, nature already has a cure, a simple diet of fiber and yes, less red meat, but not zero.
If you think that cleansing program is working for you, keep up with it, but don't try and cut calories on the trail. I think that pretty much sums up what others are saying. Personally I think too much is put on eating and diets and not enough of the other integral part of a healthy body -- exercise.
Try again.
as I was thinking "I'll take chinese medicine over greek medicine any day" i got curious as to "Chinese fasting", so I googled it, and found a very interesting link, which may even help explain why one loses appetite the first few weeks on the trail:http://www.yinyanghouse.com/practiti...fasting-theory.
Fasting isn't healthy. Neither is gluttony. People just need to eat a balanced nutrient rich diet and exercise, and burn the same number of calories than they take in if weight maintenance is the goal. It's really quite simple in theory - it's doing it that is the challenge. Regardless, going on starvation diets isn't healthy even for just a few days. It screws up your electrolyte levels, your blood sugar, your digestive tract, and the general chemical balance in your body - including your brain. The only healthy way to diet to lose weight is to run just a slight calorie deficit so that the body slowly converts fat stores.
There are many instances of the results of prolonged fasting / malnutrition on humans throughout history. Perhaps the most notorious in recent history occurred in the Nazi concentration camps - the prisoners got between 600 and 1200 calories a day from 1943 on once rations were reduced - more than the Master Cleanse diet. We've all seen the pictures. There is no question as to the outcome. For more recent examples of starvation level diets, just google "Ethiopian famine".
Fasting for a day for religious or medical purposes is no big deal. But for any extended period, it's just the beginning of slowly killing the body.
"That's the thing about possum innards - they's just as good the second day." - Jed Clampett
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