Think I am back to the drawing board on solo shelter.....

[10-K]

.
(I packed up my SS2 in heavy rain so the fly was wet . It was about 14oz heavier than when dry about 8 hours later at home)
Franco

I can believe it. When my Lunar Duo is good and wet it feels like a cinder block.

[rp1790]

Lightheart solo, as light as you can possibly get for a double wall tent, about 27oz. I used a Lunar Duo for two months and really got sick of condensation and misting on the AT.

[stranger]

- Big Agnes Fly Creek
- Big Agnes Copper Spur
- MSR Hubba
- Tarptent Notch
- Lightheart Solo
- Terra Nova Laser Competition
- Aarn Pacer
- Sierra Designs Light Year (argubly the most accomplished long distance tent ever)

[Marta]

As 10-K said, watch where you pitch it. Under trees is good. In open meadow, not so good. Basically any place where the air will be still and damp, and where cool air will pool during the night, not so good. Places where the air will be moving, and where there is something between you and the open sky will be good.

That said, if you are addicted to pitching in damp places, getting a double walled tent will help you avoid rubbing your sleeping bag up against the wet walls.

[George]

I reason I prefer a bivy breathing/condensation is usually outside the system

[sbhikes]

Can't you just pitch it in better places and/or leave a door open? The condensation is the trade-off for the weight, you know. And to trade it back you have to pitch it in better places and/or leave a door open.

[grateful 2]

Have the Big Agnes, MSR, and the sierra designs. Just went to the NEMO obi- lightest and biggest of the group

[grateful 2]

Have the Big Agnes, MSR, and the sierra designs. Just went to the NEMO obi- lightest and biggest of the group

I meant 2nd lightest and biggest

[Wise Old Owl]

nawlunz - well what did you decide?

[Tinker]

I reason I prefer a bivy breathing/condensation is usually outside the system

In rain I fold the bottom back inside and try to breathe out the end. Rain splash gets me once in a while. Using a tarp helps, but bugs and heat are a problem, so I switched to the hammock/bug net for summer. My bivy is now for emergency winter use only.

[Tinker]

I would want to be able to separate the inner tent from the fly in high condensation conditions and the SS1 or SS2 fits the bill. You can then pack the fly away separately if it is wet.

Re: the lightheart, you can't separate the inner from the fly, correct?

You are correct.

[Tinker]

Another way to minimize condensation in your tent is to cover the floor of your vestibule with plastic sheeting or something else that's non-breathable. That way moisture from the damp ground won't rise to condense on the underside of your vestibule. This has been a problem for me in just above freezing temperatures while camping on snow. Snow, of course, is mostly water with a couple of particles of dust thrown in, so when it's melting the humidity is nearly 100%. If you have a heavy fog (common under such conditions) you will absolutely have condensation, no matter what you do. In such cases it's practically a necessity to wipe down the inside of your vestibule with a bandanna or you will certainly wipe it off with your back!

[TyTy]

Tell me again why silnylon is a good tent material? It can mist, it absorbs 20-25% of it's original weight in water, and kneeling on it can cause water to come through it. Seems to me that it's only two advantages are that it is cheap it light, everything else is a compromise.

[nawlunz]

nawlunz - well what did you decide?

Well, I LOVE the Rainbow!! To me, the ease of setup, weight, and space are all keepers...I am going to try to do a better job of selecting my spots to set up...but, again, the condensation was a hassle, but perhaps may be worth the hassle given all the other positives of this tent.

[Franco]

From TyTy
"Tell me again why silnylon is a good tent material? It can mist, it absorbs 20-25% of its original weight in water, and kneeling on it can cause water to come through it. Seems to me that it's only two advantages are that it is cheap it light, everything else is a compromise. "

All of the above have been debated for years but for the benefit of the new ones I will attempt to explain.
First, where did you get the idea that silnylon absorbs water?
As far as I can see, for me at least, the weight of the water I reported was ON not IN the fabric. It was simply impossible for me to wipe the water off because it was raining hard as I took the tent down. On the other hand there are tent fabrics that absorb water, 40% weight increase is not all that unusual...
(I have done several "water tests" in my backyard comparing tent materials)

Silnylon is neither cheap nor inexpensive. If you compare the price of a tent made with polyester or PU coated taffeta nylon and the same in silnylon the latter one will be up to twice the cost.
(that would leave only "light" from your list as a plus for silnylon)
So why is it been used since the late 70's as tent material?
Because it has great tensile strength for the weight, it does not delaminate nor does it get mould if badly stored. So to some the benefits outweigh the disadvantages (sagging, DIY seam sealing...)
(keep in mind that most cottage manufacturers are “a gay/girl that hikes and started making a shelter for themselves using the material they think works better for them…)
As I mentioned at BPL, there isn't and there will not be at least in the near future a tent fabric that works best for most in most/all situations.
This is exactly the same for clothing fabric, and that is the reason why there are so many varieties.
BTW, not all silnylon is the same anyway…just like not all wool is the same.

Franco

[skinewmexico]

Another way to minimize condensation in your tent is to cover the floor of your vestibule with plastic sheeting or something else that's non-breathable. That way moisture from the damp ground won't rise to condense on the underside of your vestibule.

My Moment was bad about condensation when I picked a bad spot to pitch it. Extending my ground sheet (mostly) over the vestibules solved a lot of that.

[Franco]

Since I am at it...

Misting
You can get, on rare occasions, misting from penetration.
You need big raindrops for that; often they come from blobs dropped by a tree branch above the shelter. (Basically it’s kinetic energy)
This is not a silnylon exclusive, it can and does happen with many types of fabric, however, because silnylon has been a very popular single wall tent material it gets more comments than others.
You need to remember that we don’t get many comments in the forums from the thousands of people that buy Eureka! (no offence…) and the like tents so what you read are comments from a very small group of people, typically gear freaks not representing the “average” hiker.
(for example I can supply tent/mat/sleeping bag/pack/stove/pots to another 4 walkers from my arsenal, however I have not had less than 10 tents for over a decade)

The most common form of misting is in fact condensation dislodged from the underside of the fabric. That can and does happen with any fabric, however (again) if you have a double wall tent particularly with a full fabric inner, you may not be aware of that.

You need to remember that all too often it is simply the case of location and aptitude.
So “I always get cold wearing shorts” and “I never get cold wearing shorts” can be both true depending of where you are just as “I always get condensation” and “I never do” can be true describing exactly the same shelter…

BTW, last night I had two Moments drying out (post seam sealing) in my backyard.
For some reason I had one taut the other was not.
It rained in the evening and at around 3AM the wind woke me up.
So I went down to have a look at the shelters.
One was steady as a rock, the other was wobbling all over the place.
So next time we read about bad experiences with tents, let’s think about possible “user error”.


Skinewmexico
What you describe is a common situation with that type of design (single hoop) but does also affect other shelters with a large/ish vestibule.
(check comments on the British forum (OM) about the numerous shelters there that employ that design, mind you the Brits seem to favor condensation over air flow…)
A mate of mine almost always sleeps with the door of his Moment fully open, when it rains on that side then he lifts up the other side and leaves the ends open.
But yes, ground evaporation is great for condensation .
Franco

[TyTy]

From TyTy
"Tell me again why silnylon is a good tent material? It can mist, it absorbs 20-25% of its original weight in water, and kneeling on it can cause water to come through it. Seems to me that it's only two advantages are that it is cheap it light, everything else is a compromise. "

All of the above have been debated for years but for the benefit of the new ones I will attempt to explain.
First, where did you get the idea that silnylon absorbs water?
As far as I can see, for me at least, the weight of the water I reported was ON not IN the fabric. It was simply impossible for me to wipe the water off because it was raining hard as I took the tent down. On the other hand there are tent fabrics that absorb water, 40% weight increase is not all that unusual...
(I have done several "water tests" in my backyard comparing tent materials)

Silnylon is neither cheap nor inexpensive. If you compare the price of a tent made with polyester or PU coated taffeta nylon and the same in silnylon the latter one will be up to twice the cost.
(that would leave only "light" from your list as a plus for silnylon)
So why is it been used since the late 70's as tent material?
Because it has great tensile strength for the weight, it does not delaminate nor does it get mould if badly stored. So to some the benefits outweigh the disadvantages (sagging, DIY seam sealing...)
(keep in mind that most cottage manufacturers are “a gay/girl that hikes and started making a shelter for themselves using the material they think works better for them…)
As I mentioned at BPL, there isn't and there will not be at least in the near future a tent fabric that works best for most in most/all situations.
This is exactly the same for clothing fabric, and that is the reason why there are so many varieties.
BTW, not all silnylon is the same anyway…just like not all wool is the same.

Franco

I understand your points but from reading about it I am convinced at a minimum the silnylon used in TT's absorbs some water, it may allow misting, kneeling on the ground cloth can cause water to come up through it, and pads slip on it. The solution (again all this from reading, no personal experience) is to possibly spray silicone spray on the fly, paint diluted silicone on the floor in stripes or possibly the whole thing, both sides (accepting that this will probably hold dirt and wear off over time), and/or use a ground cloth or not kneel directly on the floor. I love TT designs, price points, everything about them really EXCEPT these things. It just irks me that I have to compromise on so many points to get a lighter, more affordable tent. I don't like the idea of buying something then going to town on it with sprays, diluted silicone and seam sealer. It just irks me. I wish I could have a TT design in a material that did not absorb water, and was not slipery for pads. I know I would still have to deal with condensation.

Maybe I am just to picky. Probably so.

[Tinker]

Franco: “a gay/girl that hikes"................

I don't miss much

We know what you mean.

[skinewmexico]

Skinewmexico
What you describe is a common situation with that type of design (single hoop) but does also affect other shelters with a large/ish vestibule.
(check comments on the British forum (OM) about the numerous shelters there that employ that design, mind you the Brits seem to favor condensation over air flow…)
A mate of mine almost always sleeps with the door of his Moment fully open, when it rains on that side then he lifts up the other side and leaves the ends open.
But yes, ground evaporation is great for condensation .
Franco

I will admit user error played a big part. I camped on damp ground (canoe trip), next to a river, still night 32-33 degrees.