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Thread: Giardia

  1. #41
    Garlic
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    Quote Originally Posted by bamboo bob View Post
    ...but most go away on their own or with a dose or two of Imodium....
    I agree with everything else in your post but this, and it's a technicality. As I understand it, Imodium simply stops the diarrhea, which can certainly be helpful sometimes (OK, most of the time). But if you're someplace near a toilet, I've heard you're better off letting the diarrhea go, so to speak, and get the baddies out of your system. The diarrhea is there for a reason, it's trying to do something helpful, and you don't want to stop it if possible. I don't think Imodium actually cures anything in the gut. But it sounds like it helps you get more hydration and nourishment out of your food and drink, if the diarrhea is really bad.

    Personally, I don't like taking the pills if I don't need to, and I don't carry any when I'm hiking. I've never had diarrhea on the trail. When I get back to town life, different story. I often get sick when I get back to civilization. I think it's being around public transportation, door knobs, school children--all the stuff we escape when we go hiking.
    "Throw a loaf of bread and a pound of tea in an old sack and jump over the back fence." John Muir on expedition planning

  2. #42
    PCT, Sheltowee, Pinhoti, LT , BMT, AT, SHT, CDT, TRT 10-K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spokes View Post
    Thanks for sharing Colter!

    Now I'm waiting for someone to read and misinterpret the one resource you included (shown under "The Cure") and start claiming that eating a diet high in bananas will prevent Giardia..........

    You know it's only a matter of time.
    I read that the master cleanse will prevent giardia....

  3. #43
    Registered User Mismatch's Avatar
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    I'm surprised nobody has referenced this article or similar backpacker articles -they have mentioned it quite a few times. http://www.backpacker.com/community/ask_buck/180

    I didn't treat any water for the last half of my thru-hike and never got really sick. I did get mild diarrhea every now and then, but I think it was probably due to mexican and chinese buffets or gas station resupplies.
    You must live in the present, launch yourself on every wave, find your eternity in each moment"
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    Registered User Papa D's Avatar
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    I drink untreated water from high rock springs or some piped springs and use aqua-mira from other sources and bring cooking water to a boil. This is probably overkill -- I agree with most that the chance of getting Giardia -- it's really rare if you practice more or less safe practices.

  5. #45
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    There is a one pill cure for giardiasis, Tinidazole. I plan on carrying a couple and also some doxicyclene for Lyme and anaplasmoisis.

  6. #46
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    As a hiker I have been infected by Giardia many times when I used to hike in Iran but more importantly I used to treat hunderds of Giardiosis as a medical doctor.


    New medications are very effective to treat the Giardiosis but the problem is not about treating the hiker that has all the symptoms of it. The probem arises when some of us acquire a subtle version of Giardiosis. in subtle Giardosis It is not a full force Diarrhea, it does not stop hiker from hiking but it take some steam off the hiker.

    The Most common sign of subtle Giardiosis is the foul smell of poop and subtle change of bowel habbits. My patinets used to complain that after their hike the smell of their stools has change to worse( ok I know that poop is not supposed to smell good!!! but Giardiosis make sit really foul).

    I am a siner here in north america, I don't treat water unless it is very suspicious( by boiling it) but for my next long distance I plan to use Aqua Mira. It is just playing safe.

  7. #47
    Registered User Wise Old Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kookork View Post
    As a hiker I have been infected by Giardia many times when I used to hike in Iran but more importantly I used to treat hunderds of Giardiosis as a medical doctor.


    New medications are very effective to treat the Giardiosis but the problem is not about treating the hiker that has all the symptoms of it. The probem arises when some of us acquire a subtle version of Giardiosis. in subtle Giardosis It is not a full force Diarrhea, it does not stop hiker from hiking but it take some steam off the hiker.

    The Most common sign of subtle Giardiosis is the foul smell of poop and subtle change of bowel habbits. My patinets used to complain that after their hike the smell of their stools has change to worse( ok I know that poop is not supposed to smell good!!! but Giardiosis make sit really foul).

    I am a siner here in north america, I don't treat water unless it is very suspicious( by boiling it) but for my next long distance I plan to use Aqua Mira. It is just playing safe.
    .

    But you say you are a doctor. Lets take a leap of faith here. The American Indian was here for 100,000+ years and survived - well and their immune systems were crap - when the whites occupied the area and brought all the bugs, viruses, and plagues to the early U.S.A. Giardia is way down the list of thing to worry about right? Really spews on the first bout, but you get over it... can one be immune after a few years?
    Last edited by HikerRanky; 12-19-2011 at 01:09.
    Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Old Owl View Post
    But you say you are a doctor. Lets take a leap of faith here. The American Indian was here for 100,000+ years and survived - well and their immune systems were crap - when the whites occupied the area and brought all the bugs, viruses, and plagues to the early U.S.A. Giardia is way down the list of thing to worry about right? Really spews on the first bout, but you get over it... can one be immune after a few years?
    If I am not wrong , you mentioned American Indians immune System is crap? any reference?

    Ps: Ameican Indians have not been in this land for more than 60,000 years( some say it began 12000 years ago) so again +100000 seems stretching the fact.

    Again , I really like to know what is your point. please in plain English.
    Last edited by HikerRanky; 12-19-2011 at 01:11.

  9. #49
    Registered User Wise Old Owl's Avatar
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    No American Indians were here for 100 k - by Scientific American - they came in three waves - I really don't care - it doesn't make my point Try this - They were here for a very long time and in this moment ... A long, long time ago in a land far away.... no mention of Giardia. Cus it wasn't a huge issue. Trots were " a small issue.

    That is it, in a nutshell - If the Indians were suffering from the trots - they would have made history/.
    Last edited by HikerRanky; 12-19-2011 at 01:11.
    Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

    Woo

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Old Owl View Post
    No American Indians were here for 100 k - by Scientific American - they came in three waves - I really don't care - it doesn't make my point Try this - They were here for a very long time and in this moment ... A long, long time ago in a land far away.... no mention of Giardia. Cus it wasn't a huge issue. Trots were " a small issue.

    That is it, in a nutshell - If the Indians were suffering from the trots - they would have made history/.
    Aids and small pox and Lyme's disease weren't big issues for the early Indians, either. These are different times. For those who get really sick with Giardiasis, and that is hundreds of thousands of people, it is a very big deal.

  11. #51

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    I would say that we really don't know what diseases the Indians had to deal with in the generations before Europeans got here. I think many have an idea of paradise, which is kind of naive. Everyone knows about the disease they suffed from us, but that's nothing new and it still happens today, not on such a large scale, thanks to modern science/medicine. I can't tell you how many shots I had to get in the Military everytime we went somewhere different.

    I also think it's not correct to say that the Indians immune system was "crap". They were simply exposed to bacteria/viruses that they were not use to -- and to exasperate the issue, they were introduced to these pathogens in an all-of-a-sudden manner and in relatively large quantities. The same would happen to any group. It's also not correct to blame the Europeans, no one really had a very good understanding of disease; we still blamed a lot on the devil back then.

    Diseases come and go (i.e. we adapt). Isn't that the case with Lyme disease? That hasn't been much of a problem until relatively recently. I'm sure the Indians suffered from diseases in waves, just like everyone else on the planet. Disease is just part of nature.

  12. #52
    Registered User Wise Old Owl's Avatar
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    Oh wait - my word choice was terrible - I am not going to correct it.... I was referring to this well known incident in American History....

    Blankets with smallpox On June 29, 1763, a week after the siege began, Bouquet was preparing to lead an expedition to relieve Fort Pitt when he received a letter from Amherst making the following proposal: "Could it not be contrived to send the smallpox among the disaffected tribes of Indians? We must on this occasion use every stratagem in our power to reduce them." [1]

    Bouquet agreed, writing back to Amherst on July 13, 1763: "I will try to inoculate the bastards with some blankets that may fall into their hands, and take care not to get the disease myself." Amherst responded favorably on July 16, 1763: "You will do well to inoculate the Indians by means of blankets, as well as every other method that can serve to extirpate this execrable race."[2]
    As it turned out, however, officers at the besieged Fort Pitt had already exposed the Indians in just the manner Amherst and Bouquet were discussing. During a parley at Fort Pitt on June 24, 1763, Captain Simeon Ecuyer gave representatives of the besieging Delawares two blankets and a handkerchief from the smallpox ward "out of regard to them" after the Delawares pledged to renew their friendship.[3] While the exact meaning of his phrase was unclear, a later invoice appears to clearly establish the purpose was transmittal of smallpox.[4]
    Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

    Woo

  13. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Old Owl View Post
    Oh wait - my word choice was terrible - I am not going to correct it.... I was referring to this well known incident in American History....

    Blankets with smallpox On June 29, 1763, a week after the siege began, Bouquet was preparing to lead an expedition to relieve Fort Pitt when he received a letter from Amherst making the following proposal: "Could it not be contrived to send the smallpox among the disaffected tribes of Indians? We must on this occasion use every stratagem in our power to reduce them." [1]

    Bouquet agreed, writing back to Amherst on July 13, 1763: "I will try to inoculate the bastards with some blankets that may fall into their hands, and take care not to get the disease myself." Amherst responded favorably on July 16, 1763: "You will do well to inoculate the Indians by means of blankets, as well as every other method that can serve to extirpate this execrable race."[2]
    As it turned out, however, officers at the besieged Fort Pitt had already exposed the Indians in just the manner Amherst and Bouquet were discussing. During a parley at Fort Pitt on June 24, 1763, Captain Simeon Ecuyer gave representatives of the besieging Delawares two blankets and a handkerchief from the smallpox ward "out of regard to them" after the Delawares pledged to renew their friendship.[3] While the exact meaning of his phrase was unclear, a later invoice appears to clearly establish the purpose was transmittal of smallpox.[4]
    And that's not the first account of Biological Warfare.

    On a different note, I recommend reading two books, pretty interesting: http://www.amazon.com/1491-Revelatio.../dp/140004006X AND http://www.amazon.com/1493-Uncoverin.../dp/0307265722

  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by john gault View Post
    I would say that we really don't know what diseases the Indians had to deal with in the generations before Europeans got here. I think many have an idea of paradise, which is kind of naive. Everyone knows about the disease they suffed from us, but that's nothing new and it still happens today, not on such a large scale, thanks to modern science/medicine. I can't tell you how many shots I had to get in the Military everytime we went somewhere different.

    I also think it's not correct to say that the Indians immune system was "crap". They were simply exposed to bacteria/viruses that they were not use to -- and to exasperate the issue, they were introduced to these pathogens in an all-of-a-sudden manner and in relatively large quantities. The same would happen to any group. It's also not correct to blame the Europeans, no one really had a very good understanding of disease; we still blamed a lot on the devil back then.

    Diseases come and go (i.e. we adapt). Isn't that the case with Lyme disease? That hasn't been much of a problem until relatively recently. I'm sure the Indians suffered from diseases in waves, just like everyone else on the planet. Disease is just part of nature.
    Here's another case http://news.yahoo.com/scientists-un-...-abc-news.html


    Scientists: UN Soldiers Brought Deadly Superbug to Americas


    Compelling new scientific evidence suggests United Nations peacekeepers have carried a virulent strain of cholera -- a super bug -- into the Western Hemisphere for the first time.

    The vicious form of cholera has already killed 7,000 people in Haiti, where it surfaced in a remote village in October 2010. Leading researchers from Harvard Medical School and elsewhere told ABC News that, despite UN denials, there is now a mountain of evidence suggesting the strain originated in Nepal, and was carried to Haiti by Nepalese soldiers who came to Haiti to serve as UN peacekeepers after the earthquake that ravaged the country on Jan. 12, 2010 -- two years ago today. Haiti had never seen a case of cholera until the arrival of the peacekeepers, who allegedly failed to maintain sanitary conditions at their base.


    "What scares me is that the strain from South Asia has been recognized as more virulent, more capable of causing severe disease, and more transmissible," said John Mekalanos, who chairs the Department of Microbiology and Molecular Genetics at Harvard Medical School. "These strains are nasty. So far there has been no secondary outbreak. But Haiti now represents a foothold for a particularly dangerous variety of this deadly disease."

    [Related: Haiti quake victims stuck in limbo]

    More than 500,000 Haitians have been infected, and Mekalanos said a handful of victims who contracted cholera in Haiti have now turned up in Venezuela, the Dominican Republic, and in Boston, Miami and New York, but only in isolated cases.


    How cholera landed in Haiti has been a politically charged topic for more than a year now, with the United Nations repeatedly refusing to acknowledge any role in the outbreak despite mounting evidence that international peacekeepers were the most likely culprits. The UN has already faced hostility from Haitians who believe peacekeeping troops have abused local residents without consequence. They now face legal action from relatives of victims who have petitioned the UN for restitution. And the cholera charge could further hamper the UN's ability to work effectively there, two years after the country was hobbled by the earthquake.

    Over the summer, Assistant Secretary General Anthony Banbury told ABC News that the UN sincerely wanted to know if it played a part in the outbreak, but independent efforts to answer that question had not succeeded. He said the disease could have just as easily been carried by a backpacker or civilian aid worker.

    Banbury said the UN, through both its peacekeeping mission and its civilian organizations "are working very hard ... to combat the spread of the disease and bring assistance to the people. And that's what's important now."

    The scientists say it can't be determined for certainty where it came from," Banbury said. "So we don't know if it was the U.N. troops or not. That's the bottom line."

    A UN spokeswoman repeated the answer when asked again last week: "The [scientists] determined it was not possible to be conclusive about how cholera was introduced into Haiti," said the UN's Anayansi Lopez.
    Scientists Trace Cholera Superbug to UN Peacekeepers

    But ABC News has interviewed several top scientists involved in researching the origins of the cholera outbreak, and each expressed little doubt that the UN troop was responsible. The reason: A genetic analysis of the strain found in Haiti matches identically the one involved in an outbreak in Nepal in August and September of 2010; The Nepalese peacekeeping troops deployed for Haiti at precisely that time; Two weeks before the outbreak, Haitians had reported sanitary breakdowns at the Nepalese encampment set along a tributary to the Artibonite River, about 60 miles north of the capital Port Au Prince. The next month, the earliest cases of cholera surfaced in the same remote area, from Haitians who had been drinking and bathing in the river.

    "The scientific debate on the origin of cholera in Haiti existed, but it has been resolved by the accumulation of evidence that unfortunately leave no doubt about the implication of the Nepalese contingent of the UN peacekeeping mission in Haiti," said French epidemiologist Renaud Piarroux, who conducted research on the outbreak for the Centers for Disease Control.


    Mekalanos agreed, saying the single strongest piece of evidence came from the genetic analysis of the strain, which he said was virtually identical to strains that caused cholera in Nepal around the time that the troops shipped out. Taken in concert with sanitation problems at the Nepalese base, which was located near the epicenter of the outbreak, he said "almost any other explanation I can think of is well behind in confidence to the likelihood that that strain was introduced by UN troops," he said.

    "It's outrageous for the UN to try to deny responsibility for bringing cholera to Haiti," said Mark Weisbrot, co-director of the Washington-based Center for Economic and Policy Research, whose group has been monitoring relief efforts in Haiti. "Was it gross negligence on their part? This is one of the questions they won't have to answer if they can sweep this whole thing under the rug."

    Experts said understanding the origin of the outbreak is important. Louise C. Ivers, an infectious disease specialist and professor of global health and social medicine at Harvard Medical School, published a paper this week that traced spread of cholera back to the first victim, a mentally ill man who ingested contaminated river water. She witnessed firsthand the destruction it caused as hundreds of villagers started dying from an unfamiliar malady.

    "It was overwhelming," she said. "There were no reported cases in Haiti before 2010, ever. Really people had no idea what was happening. To hear the fear and the suspicions and the lack of understanding about how this was happening is very, very sad. The outbreak put a huge stress on what was already a very fragile health system. I'm afraid it will be a problem for the foreseeable future."


    She said what has made Haiti so vulnerable was a lack of latrines and clean potable water. She said there have been small outbreaks in the Dominican Republic, but nothing on the scale of what hit Haiti because conditions are more modern and sanitary.

    Mekalanos said there are steps that the UN and other aid organizations can and should be taking if they are sending workers from an area where cholera is active into a region where it has long been absent. In the future, he said, the UN might consider giving troops a prophylactic dose of antibiotic before deploying. Or they could do more to insure proper sanitary conditions at UN encampments.

    With the likelihood that cholera will be part of the landscape in Haiti for decades to come, though, Mekalanos said his hope is that the missteps that brought the ugly strain of the disease from Asia to the west will not repeat and lead to its further spread.


    "Cholera is a disease of the impoverished," he said. "When the standards of living are already at the lowest levels, cholera is a killer of historic proportions. If it spreads to other parts of the world, in those kinds of settings, I fear there will be a very high rate of death."

    UN officials said Banbury is currently in Haiti, "actively discussing with the Mission what more the UN can do to help Haiti deal with the outbreak."

  15. #55
    lemon b's Avatar
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    Only came down with it one time. From my sons minnow water just on the north side of sages revine. Made me sick for a while.

  16. #56
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    hay, could you print that a little bigger

    Panzer

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