does a bear sh#$ in the woods? no he sh$%s in the road and kicks it in.....throw your shells into the woods and nobody will ever know except for u and the big guy....
Nothing should be thrown on the trail. Not orange and banana peels -- not even apple cores. Off the trail and out of sight, I can't think of any harmful organic matter, though somethings are bad for wildlife.
The reason for not tossing stuff on the trail, is that most hikers prefer to walk through leaves and pine needles, as opposed to walking through garbage.
BTW, I toss six or seven banana peels a week and an occasional orange peel into my midcoast Maine compost piles. When after a year or two I move the compost to my garden, I have never been able to identify any of the original ingredients except for an occasional bone that got deposited by mistake.
Most bones I burn in my woodstove in a hot wood fire. The ashes of the wood and bones are spread on my lawn and garden. I suppose bones eventually decay also. But I hear that scientists think they have recovered DNA from 10,000 year old bones which suggests the decay isn't very rapid.
Originally Posted by john gault
I'd say a lot of cigarette smokers would agree with Sly. Just toss 'em on the ground visible in public places.
Not "cool" at all.
Rain Man
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[I]ye shall not pollute the land wherein ye are: ... Defile not therefore the land which ye shall inhabit....[/I]. Numbers 35
[url]www.MeetUp.com/NashvilleBackpacker[/url]
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Hey is it possible to get bubblegum off your knobby boots?
Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.
Woo
It all depends, generally speaking, on the conditions, but for DNA to last in 10,000 year old bone, my first thought is that they're fossilized bones. However, there's always some weird surprise nature throws at us. Look here: http://www.detectingdesign.com/fossilizeddna.html#DNA
Excerpt:
One of the earliest published reports concerned DNA extracted from ancient materials (i.e., greater than one million years old) involved Magnolia leaves (with intact fragments measuring up to 820 base pairs) found in lake bottom sediments of Miocene age, supposedly 17-20 million years old.3 This find was quite interesting because the magnolia leaves were found in water logged clay deposits - i.e., they were still wet! Of course, DNA disintegrates fairly rapidly when in contact with water (complete disintegration in less than 5,000 years).33 Yet, this experiment was repeated with several scientists reporting the retrieval of authentic plant cpDNA in the 700-1500 bp size range.34,35
In commenting on the remarkably old DNA in the supposedly 17-million-year-old magnolia leaf, Svante Paabo exclaimed, "The clay was wet, however, and one wonders how DNA could have survived the damaging influence of water for so long." 24
Good question. However, most of the supposedly "ancient" DNA which has been recovered is from insects and plants preserved in dry amber, including a termite estimated to be 25-30 million years old,2 a Hymenaea leaf thought to be 25-40 million years old5 and a weevil estimated to be 120-135 million years old.1 The weevil DNA, in particular, was once thought to be 80 million years older than any other DNA specimen ever extracted and sequenced.Even more amazing than this though are the findings of Dr. Cano, a microbiologist at California State Polytechnic University. What Dr. Cano did was dissect a Dominican stingless bee trapped in amber, which was thought to be 25 to 40 million years old. What he found were very well preserved bacterial spores inside. In fact they were so well preserved that they actually grew when placed in the right environment. In other words, they were still alive! And, interestingly enough, their DNA closely matched the DNA of modern bacteria that grow inside modern bees.26 Also, fairly recently, viable bacterial endospores and proteobacteria were isolated from primary (halite) salt crystals dated at over 250 million years old.30,36 The experiments were conducted in dedicated clean laboratory facilities. So, contamination is thought to be unlikely in this case. So, of course, the age of the crystals was subsequently questioned.33,37 Logically, since it stretches the imagination that any form of living thing could remain viable for such long periods of time, perhaps the dating methods used to date the crystals were wrong? Good thinking! Also, it is interesting to note that the sequences from the study of Vreeland et al. [ref. 30] show only 13 substitution differences from contemporary bacterial sequences, whereas known mutation rates among related bacteria would have suggested 59 differences.33 In this same line, the DNA extracted from amber, even though it was maintained in a fairly dry environment, is also just as problematic as DNA sequences from ancient salt crystals. R. John Parkes commented in Nature concerning this and other similar phenomena by noting that, "There is also the question of how bacterial biopolymers can remain intact over millions of years in dormant bacteria; or, conversely, if bacteria are metabolically active enough to repair biopolymers, this raises the question of what energy source could last over such a long period." 29
I agree with the non native species line of thinking, but seeing as how most people eat roasted sunflower seeds, and a roasted sunflower seeds will never ever ever ever ever grow, this line of thinking does not apply to sunflower seeds.
Pack it in pack it out? LNT (leave NO trace)Cigarette butts or seed shells it's all trash. Keep it simple stupid!
Good thread to bring up important points such as those addressed. I was generally told that organic debris attracks flies and other bugs, but actually I think this is very limited to certain types of organic debris. Frankly I think American society is hyper-civilized--this doesn't mean that we should all let our hair hang out and throw caution to the winds when hiking. But it does help to loosen up when hiking with regard to judging others by the standards of rules, rules, rules. Common sense should rule.
The next time I run a trail race, I'm gonna drop my shells by some hikers.
I would think ( not know 4 sure) that birds will eat the sunflower seeds? If not, they're natural, tiny and dull colored and will probably decompose quickly. Deer love apples so that will be eaten. However, comma, nothing will eat the **** stained TP that some morons leave unburied or the candy wrappers, cans...etc..
How about the red pistachio nut shells, they're my least favorite thing to see on the trail. usually at some nice overlook.
That to me is one of the most egregious violations of common civility, tp out in the open, uncovered where someone took a crap. Urine at least is sterile, no one ever toxified the environment taking a pee in the woods, man or woman. If someone does not carry a trowel to dig a cat hole, he/she could try and find a shallow ditch, crap there, and cover it up with organic matter. There is usually something like moss, fern or other usable debris to wipe the butt, I hear that in much of the world they have perfected the use of the left hand in place of toilet paper.
Sunflower seed hulls in concentration prevent other seeds from sprouting. Look below your bird feeder and you may see this. One could argue that lining the trail with sunflower seed hulls would aid in trail maintenance or at least trail definition. One could also argue that sunflower seed hulls increase wildlife sightings because everything seems to like to eat them 'cept snakes but the snakes will show up to get the mice. Disperse off the trail or if gathered consider dumping at the next road crossing. Not a biggie. Orange peels PLEASE hurl or bury cause they seem to stick around. Still though they are part of nature and better than a leaky can of oil. Cigarette butts? NO TOLERANCE they are trash PERIOD. Pack em out.
Maybe you can trade them in for some extra special trail magic.
Yep, there's a name for that -- Mulch. And it leaves behind very fertile soil. And the entire pile does not need to disappear before stuff start growing, plants are very good at growing through stuff -- they've been doing it for millions of years. It would take a very, very thick layer of hulls to stop any growth.
It's easy to find the guy who left the red pistachios. Look at his fingers!
This reminds me of the story of the guy who went to see his doctor, because his private appendage looked like it was inflamed like a hooker's....well, you get the picture. The Dr. examined the man and could offer no explanation. Suspecting over-use, the Dr. asked the young man if he had a recent "change in lifestyle". "No" said the patient. "I haven't had a date in months. In fact, I usually sit home alone at night, watching TV and eating pistachios!"
Last edited by Roland; 12-11-2011 at 20:04.
Roland
I have a confession to make.
I was at a nice overlook in Bear Mountain Park in New York, enjoying the view of the Hudson and eating lunch. It was a dayhike, and I'd brought in a nice sandwich from home. A bit of tomato fell out, and before I even bent down to pick it up, the ants were all over it. I got fascinated with their activity, and sat for a while watching them. In short order, the little piece of tomato was gone. They'd carried off or eaten every bit.
I didn't try to track them down and get it back to pack it out. So, to what extent was I violating LNT?
Does your answer change if I'd, uhm, run the tomato through my digestion first and left what remained in a cathole? Remember that tomato seeds in mammal feces are often viable (although tomatoes cannot grow wild in the climate of New York!).
once i was hiking below bear mt and while having lunch a tomato fell out of the sky and laned on my sandwich it had ants all over it so i ate it.ain't life funny?
There are several compelling reasons not to drop seeds of any kind - especially sunflower but others as well - that go beyond mere "litter." If this has been covered before, I apologize...
First, and most importantly, seeds can germinate (grow) even after processing, unless it involves cooking enough to kill the seed (boiled peanuts are an example). Those seeds may represent invasive species in a particular area, and over time disrupt the local ecology. Sunflowers are particularly easy to grow, and because of their size they can affect other plants adversely.
Second, the seeds can draw unwanted animals, especially if salted. That's not good; animals learn to start feeding near human-used places (trails, shelters) and not every animal is desireable and, in fact, most aren't. Seeds like that are particulary attractive to mice, who are known carriers of Hanta virus, which is deadly and has been found in AT shelter mice.
Third, as noted, it's just plain ugly. Litter is litter; if you have to ask if it is, then it is. As said, "pack it in, pack it out.
TW
"Thank God! there is always a Land of Beyond, For us who are true to the trail..." --- Robert Service
Luckily most of the people who advocate discarding peels and shells on the trail spend more time in front of their keyboard than on the trails.
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