Safety on the AT?

[tophatxj]

I carry a pistol.

[NorseWoman]

New Rule on Guns in Parks Takes Effect February 22

Tuesday, February 09, 2010

On February 22, a new law on guns in national parks takes effect. The law repeals a National Park Service rule that has long prohibited Americans from lawfully possessing firearms in national parks for self-defense. The new law, passed last spring by an overwhelming bipartisan vote in the U.S. Senate, will allow people to possess, carry and transport firearms in national parks, in accordance with state law. However, many details remain to be worked out. Reports indicate that National Park Service officials are debating issues such as the definition of “federal facilities,” where firearms will remain prohibited under a different federal law. NPS officials are expected to issue further information as February 22 approaches, and some parks have already published information on their new policies. Because state laws vary greatly, before you visit a national park, you should check the park’s website or call the park headquarters for more information. NRA will also provide updates as they become available.

[MuddyWaters]

Dont tell anyone what they should and shouldnt carry, its none of your business.

If you even take an objection to something someone else carries, then YOU have a problem.

You are, however, free to debate the need for certain items endlessly.

[Ladytrekker]

Younger hikers have grown up in a time when conflicts are handled violently. Growing up the worse I ever saw was a fight or two that were not serious no one in my high school was killed by violence. Now that is the norm so their concerns are real I am glad that they are asking and preparing and getting information on keeping them safe and this forum has more information about this than any other resource. I appreciate all the advice that the seasoned are giving to these young hikers. What I hope happens is that these young hikers have a great experience on any trail and that they get to meet the good in people and the unity and comradery of the hiking world.

[Grits]

Beware images.jpglight-saber-squirrels.jpg

[atmilkman]

Wow, it took this thread longer to start talking dogs than it did guns.

Hammocks are better than tents. No. Trail runners are better than boots. No. It's the other way around on both and just for the sake of argument yes the moon is made of cheese.

[MaybeTomorrow]

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Amendment III
No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

Amendment VII
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

[Wise Old Owl]

thanks Spokes - all kidding about safety aside, people SHOULD NOT carry guns, big knives, pepper spray, swords, or any other weaponry on the trail (except maybe light sabers)

that's your opinion but if folks want to they have a right to

Sure glad I don't give a crap what the majority of folks think.

i said folks have a right to protect themselves. i said nothing about a gun specifically

Papa D, folks can choose to carry all sorts of things - the AT is not an airport where carrying something puts others at risk. Just because you see a knife as a weapon; and I see it as a tool and my survival. I do not have the right to threaten others. If I follow your take - Hiking sticks should be outlawed on the trail.

As for the beaten to death WB subject of guns - If you have taken the time to understand the safe handling, state laws and have a CWW almost all states now have right to carry laws on the books - there may be an additional license that you may need. I am OK with it.... I don't really care what you carry.

Someone in an above post mentioned states frowning on guns - got it wrong - and either I misread it or they goofed - licensing & taxes is a moneymaker for states.


For example, Florida has issued 2,031,106 licenses since adopting its law in 1987, and had 843,463 licensed permit holders as of July 31, 2011.Reported permit holders are predominantly male.


Turns out one cannot use the word gun in search.... that's a new one....

[RetroGear]

It's unfortunate that most "discussions" about carrying (whether on the AT or in your hometown) so quickly deteriorate into shouting matches between nutcases who think that the Second Amendment means that anyone can carry anywhere at any time (it doesn't) and soccer moms and dads who think, ewww, all guns are baaad things (they aren't).

One of the very (very!) few intelligent statements was made several posts ago:

If you don't carry concealed on a normal daily basis, then danger while hiking is probably a poor reason to start, at least statistically. One, you likely aren't trained in defensive shooting; two, you just aren't used to carrying all the time; three, the trail is relatively devoid of bad guys; and four; you'll most likely be attacked when sleeping or with your back turned, etc. The flip side of that is that the victims who made up those stats can't tell you what they would have done if they had a chance to do it over again. I regularly carry concealed. Do I on the trail? I'll never tell. Would I if on a thru-hike? Likely not - too much trouble and flat out illegal in many states (get caught in NJ or NY and you'll do 3 years minimum on a life-ruining felony). Would a rare crime like Merdith Emerson's murder have been prevented if she had been carrying? Possibly. Would it have increased her odds? Sure. But like any other hypothetical question, we'll just never know the final outcome answer.

Carrying a weapon is not just a right - it's a huge responsibility as well. The weapon has to always be under your supervision. That means having it in your sleeping bag if sleeping in a shelter, on you when going for water, to the privy, locked up somewhere or with you in a plastic bag when you shower or bathe, swim, etc, etc, etc. It also means keeping it out of view at all times but still quickly accessible in a concealed holster of some sort (a gun buried in a pack is pointless), because you will freak people out if they see you're carrying a weapon. It isn't always as easy as it sounds.

Add that unless you are an active LEO or allowed otherwise to carry everywhere under LEOSA, you'll need to be legal permit wise in whatever state you are in, and that precludes carrying in many states where you simply can't get or will have difficulty getting a permit or having a permit honored reciprocally (MD, NJ, and NY especially come to mind as no way states - WV, CT, MA, and ME are also problematic as they honor few if any other state's permits reciprocally).

If you (a) haven't had professional training (Thunder Ranch, Gunsite, Suarez, etc. -- no, your brother-in-law doesn't count) OR (b) don't have a CWP, OR (C) don't practice regularly (e.g., by regular participation in IPSC, IDPA, etc. (if you don't know what those are, don't bother to ask), OR (d) don't carry regularly (whether open or concealed), then you have no business carrying on the AT. If you have had training, are appropriately licensed, practice regularly, carry regularly, and feel the need, then you might consider carrying (except in places such as the People's Republic of New Jersey).

Those who are qualified to carry know who they are. And for them, ill-considered statements from those who don't "get it" are irrelevant.

[swjohnsey]

Only professional race drivers should drive. I only carry a switch on the AT.

[Sarcasm the elf]

I was recently awoken at home, in bed, by an unknown intruder(who stole a ton of stuff btw haha). It got me to thinking about the safety of thru-hikers on the AT. How safe do you experienced hikers consider the trail to be? Is tenting more risky than staying at a shelter or is it the other way around? Also what are some ways that you can make yourself more secure?(other than hiking in groups as opposed to alone)

Any other general safety tips would be appreciated!

Since the last four pages of comments are mostly the usual ranting and raving about guns, I decided to re-read the opening post (posted in the Straight Forward forum). I still don't see where the question makes any mention of guns, firearms or weapons of any sort.

Am I missing something?

[Wise Old Owl]

Not at all Sarcasm - the thread usually gets answered in the first page - after that - its pot luck.... swerves somewhat on topic are allowed until someone say's nazis then it all has to be cleaned up professionally by a mod.

And Retro gear is still on target - I got into a high minded discussion about the saftey of the Brandywine River which goes over several rock formations and dams and people have died on the river paddling on it... without backing my statement, I said they were villiage idiots for the accidents... and I was speaking from experinece. What I didn't mention, was a year going to night classes learning the water the moves working in pools learning the flips and going out with trainers. Then going for my state cert for life guard. IF you are going to get a weapon... get the degree or licence. Its like getting the dog from the pound and not doing some reading and videos on training... Many forget that boys are required to learn knife saftey (Totin Chip) and then get the survival Skills....

[Wise Old Owl]

Hey Sarcasm - how would you answer his first post?

Put another lock on his door or get a free alarm system....

or learn guerrilla warfare techniques and put them around your tent? - he's new its his 4th post - everyone here gave me a huge break when I started here and thank you for those that did. Later I learned folk here are from all walks of life and he's going to get the same break from me...


The trail is safe... try not to pink blaze.

[KimberVa]

All I will say is, if I was woken up at home by an intruder in my house, he wouldn't have taken anything but his last breath.


And a wise person told me once, better to be tried by twelve than carried by six.

[Wise Old Owl]

if you understood what the past decisions from the 9 have affected this great country - you would understand you need a new quote.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Hey Sarcasm - how would you answer his first post?

Since you ask, I would first stress that the A.T. is statistically much safer than almost any town or city in country. Bill Bryson had a passage in A Walk in the Woods that was something to the effect of: Draw a line that is 2080 miles long through any part of the eastern United States and it is almost always bound to intersect with the scenes of more crimes than have occurred on the 2080 mile long A.T.. If staying safe on the trail is a concern, it is much more important to worry about avoiding deer ticks and not walking off the side of MT. Race while night hiking than it is to worry about other people intending to harm you.

In the context of self defense, I would stress that you need to know where you are, pay attention to your surroundings, keep an eye on who's around, and size them up. I was lucky enough some years back to take martial arts classes with a highly regarded instructor who also worked with police and military forces. One of the things that he constantly reiterated was that our gut instinct is usually right, and that it's much more effective to identify a potentially dangerous situation and avoid it than it is to try and fight your way out of it. On the trail this translates to such things as avoiding sketchy folks at road crossings, not sleeping too close to the road, and having the common sense to move on when someone makes you feel unsafe.

Personally I don't care either way if someone wants to carry a weapon in order to make themselves feel safe, but I'm sick of it dominating the trail safety debate. After re-reading the opening post it was clear that user was asking for common sense tips for avoiding trouble while hiking, not looking for opinions on the a 9mm vs. 45acp debate.

[C Seeker]

I asked the same question last year before my hike http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/show...rail&highlight= I can say that now thru hiking keep your gaurd up but don't freak out.

[SassyWindsor]

If you're someone who is comfortable with and knowledgeable about firearms take one. I prefer to pack a light semi-auto .380 w/hollow points. I refuse to ever be put in danger and not have protection. You'll have better luck talking someone into not taking their dog on a hike than talking me out of taking my weapon.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Since the last four pages of comments are mostly the usual ranting and raving about guns, I decided to re-read the opening post (posted in the Straight Forward forum). I still don't see where the question makes any mention of guns, firearms or weapons of any sort.

Am I missing something?

I give up...

[KimberVa]

if you understood what the past decisions from the 9 have affected this great country - you would understand you need a new quote.

Can't get a new quote if you don't make it back upright. I'll take my chances with a flawed judicial system than with some a@#hole off his meds in the woods. And just for your information, I didn't vote for the jewel we have in office so I am just floating along the big turd filled river he is creating along with the rest of us.