This here has to do with the weather. I just open up the tent. If it is really cold everything is frozen anyway,
Right you are Lemon b,It is nothing more than weather.I'd like to say that another way.No thing more than weather,a small little micro climate,our very own little micro climate that we get to experiment with,no thing more than that.Open the flap/close the flap /and wipe tent down when needed....No Thing to it. Wise Old Owl, has got it right..often right and seldom wrong.
I've read so many questions like this that I didn't read the responses to this point.
Has anyone mentioned covering the bare dirt (or whatever) floor in the vestibule with plastic sheeting? A lot of moisture comes up from the ground, more if there is grass or other plant material than if it is bare mineral dirt or sand. This moisture can add to your breath and insensible perspiration and condense on the underside of your fly.
As I live, declares the Lord God, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn back from his way and live. Ezekiel 33:11
yes, I have tested that many times.
I happen to set up tents in my backyard very often.
Because they are set up on grass at times even when there is no visible moisture on my garden furniture and the grass is relatively dry in the morning , tents that have a large vestibule will be wet under the fly.
Completely covering the exposed area under the fly overcomes that.
Note that tents that have a proportionally large vestibule will generally have more comments about condensation.
BTW, you cannot get rid of condensation by opening a door or with a larger vent if there is no air movement (wind..) or temperature differential. (chimney effect)
For an effective "chimney/stak effect " a smaller vent works better, same reason why a chimney can't be all that large.
Franco
Jack Stephenson explained that to me about 20 years ago. It was surprising to me at the time, but it makes a lot of sense.Originally Posted by Franco
Sure double wall tents have condensation but not near as much as single wall tents because of the airflow between the two layers. Just pull the fly off immediately in the morning, shake it off and let it dry as you take down camp and eat. On high humidity mornings you may have to pack a wet fly but not a wet tent....and making sure that your tent is "breathing" practically eliminates condensation on double wall tents....yes, venting works.
geek
Franco,most of us cant bring a chimney with us to install on our tents to take advantage of that effect,or can we?A chimney could be fashioned from maybe one of those insta fill things (for blowing up sleep pads) and guy it out to say a over hanging branch.Having worked in large boiler rooms and power houses,this chimney effect does in fact work on temperature difference you pointed out,but more over the difference in density(which is that whole temp over pressure divided by ect.ect or something like that)..While achieving a differential temp,the higher you go the greater the differnce.In the conditions we find out there,and all things being ambient for the most part,it is more likely that a air exchange would be the best bet as you pointed out,and since most folks might not understand the science involved,simply opening opposing flaps might be the first step in experimenting to achieve this air exchange,and swabbing the walls might be thought of as turning on the condensation pumps.It's a pretty cool thing that's going on there!I am going to experiment with that insta flow chimney effect and maybe some R&D feel free to incorporate into your tent....good muse! going on here at White Blaze again.What about locating flaps strategically,to take advantage of the venturi effect (lower pressure pulling on a body,i'd have to get out the old books)could be interesting.Self swabbing walls,where to stop?Okay,I'm done ...for now.One more,solar panel with battery back up,a small fan for draft induction on those venturi's
Learn to deal with condensation. Get a sham wow type cloth. You will have more condensation in single walls. Just the way it is. Its just a fact of life on the trail and in the climate on the trail.
I'm embarrassed that I mentally wrote off small vents as a foolish mistaken approach in the past.
people seem askeered of things they have never used...
What is the difference between airflow between a piece of mesh and air flow directly on the outer surface?
the whole perimeter of my TT is mesh that provides the same air ventilation as the mesh inside layered to a solid outside. Only I can wipe the inside of my tent down before getting up. and at 2lb i'm carrying less. Last time i used it temps got down to low 30s and had zero condensation.
LOL chimney EFFECT not actual chimney. Look at the pic of my TT contrail above and see the small vent over the "head" area.Franco,most of us cant bring a chimney with us to install on our tents to take advantage of that effect,or can we?A chimney could be fashioned from maybe one of those insta fill things (for blowing up sleep pads) and guy it out to say a over hanging branch.Having worked in large boiler rooms and power houses,this chimney effect does in fact work on temperature difference you pointed out,but more over the difference in density(which is that whole temp over pressure divided by ect.ect or something like that)..While achieving a differential temp,the higher you go the greater the differnce.In the conditions we find out there,and all things being ambient for the most part,it is more likely that a air exchange would be the best bet as you pointed out,and since most folks might not understand the science involved,simply opening opposing flaps might be the first step in experimenting to achieve this air exchange,and swabbing the walls might be thought of as turning on the condensation pumps.It's a pretty cool thing that's going on there!I am going to experiment with that insta flow chimney effect and maybe some R&D feel free to incorporate into your tent....good muse! going on here at White Blaze again.What about locating flaps strategically,to take advantage of the venturi effect (lower pressure pulling on a body,i'd have to get out the old books)could be interesting.Self swabbing walls,where to stop?Okay,I'm done ...for now.One more,
Again, I have used single wall tents...I don't like them. My double wall keeps me and my gear drier because if the condensation is heavy, it will run down the underside of my fly and drip to the ground. It also does not "mist" in heavy rain, and yes, it makes less condensation due to the air flow between the mesh and the fly. BTW, I don't mind the extra 1 pound of my tent due to the convience of it.geek
I have a better one. Stay in shelter!
Try a Lightheart Solo. Hybrid double-wall silnylon tent. Less than 2 pounds.
if its not free standing, I'm not interested, but thanks.Try a Lightheart Solo. Hybrid double-wall silnylon tent. Less than 2 pounds.
geek
Yea if you are going to thru, make sure you have something that can be freestanding esp up north, tent platforms. The good thing about my tarp tent is that I can slide poles between the corners. Most nights I have been out I carried either my Tarptent or Hubba Hubba. Love the Double Hubba with the wife, we split it up and its light. Great tent for the both of us. When I solo, I carry my Tarptent. In both, I have to deal with condensation. Just a fact of life. When we were in Vermont we slept in a field and the outside was a drenched. Dry as a bone on our stuff but the wall of the tent had water on it. Naturally its going to do better when we are in the woods and there is less grass and more tree cover. When I have used my Tarptent, very little condensation in the woods. If it rains, moisture from the humidity in the air and me sitting in it breathing, condensation is going to happen. I like this tent because of the vents up top. But when i sleep I usually won't have to worry about condensation because the vestibule sits up.
The contrail is on my "Wish List",and when ready to buy tent,pretty sure that'll be the one.Thanks for posting pic.
Oh, the terror of condensation (and sweat, rain, mud, etc.)!
Maybe we should all huddle at home near the thermostat.
Re: Freestanding - If you're a nobo, and there aren't many platforms down south (maybe there are, but the White Mts. get all the press re: platforms) -
Why carry a tent that can't help but be at least a) A pound heavier than a non-freestanding tent of the same size, or
b) So flimsy due to lack of pole support that it needs 10 stakes in a good wind (with the extra line, tangles, etc)....
just to haul that extra weight from Georgia to New Hampshire?
Getting a tent with fewer poles and minimal staking makes more sense. You can carry a few feet of extra line to tie your tent off to bushes around the tent platforms in NH, and you probably won't need that until you get there.
I'd like to see more double hooped tents with one stake at each end.
The tent I would use (as a solo hiker) would be the Tarptent Moment. One pole and two stakes and it's up. Can take moderate winds from any angle because it's aerodynamically designed. A second hoop would make it sturdier, but heavier by a pound.
Marmot makes a double hoop tent for two people, which sets up with the tent hanging from the fly. Here:http://www.backcountry.com/marmot-wi...-3-season-tent This is a prime example of how features can add up to the weight of a tent, but if you want solid, here it is (at less money than a Hilleberg - my favorite tent maker).
..............Off and running..........
Last edited by Tinker; 01-31-2012 at 19:36.
As I live, declares the Lord God, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn back from his way and live. Ezekiel 33:11
You can reduce condensations, and deal with condensation, but you can't always prevent it.
1. Reduce sources of moisture. (ground, clothing, sweating, heavy breathing, cooking)
2. Ventilate to better equalize moisture inside and outside.
3. Shelter from open sky, which increases condensation by cooling tent fabric.
4. Heat tent material from within, with bare skin if summer, and/or candle if safe.
5. Remove visible condensation with camp towel. Hang towel outside or bag it.
You can pretty much assume 100% relative humidity at night, most nights, so its a matter of trying to keep the inside of the tent a little warmer than outside, while adding as little extra moisture as possible, and this is the tricky part, doing what you can to try and keep the tent wall not much colder than the inside, and outside, of your tent. Yeah it can even be colder than the outside if exposed to a clear night sky.
A lot of people here don't know Jack. (Stephenson).
Information on condensation, vapor barriers, etc. (Jack is a retired aerospace engineer who first made a down air mat back in 1958). www.warmlite.com
Last edited by Tinker; 01-31-2012 at 19:23.
As I live, declares the Lord God, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn back from his way and live. Ezekiel 33:11
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