A couple questions about my gear list/opinions on picking a new pack.

[Firefighter503]

Alright ladies and gents. I am working diligently to decrease my base weight, and have hit a plateau, if you will. Current base weight is about 15.74 lbs (3 season) - here's the current list: http://www.geargrams.com/list?id=6164.

As you can see, I am currently using a ULA Catalyst, at a whopping 47 oz and 4600 cubic inches. My gear fits in there with plenty of room to spare. In an effort to lower my base weight, I am looking at picking up a new pack - probably either a ULA Circuit or a ULA Ohm 2.0 (I like their packs).

If I pick up the Ohm 2.0, that will save me 18.3 oz on pack weight, plus I am planning on picking up a Zpacks Cuben Fiber pack cover (large) saving me another 5.4 oz. I also am planning on replacing my Insulating Jacket with a Montbell U.L. Down Jacket, which will net another 6.7 oz or so. Thats a total of 30.4 oz give or take, bringing my base weight to about 13.8 lbs.

ULA recommends a max base weight of 12 lbs for the Ohm 2.0 (unless the website hasn't been updated for the Ohm 2.0, which has a slightly beefier frame system compared to the original as I understand it). Anyone else using an Ohm 2.0 with a compareable base weight care to chime in? Or should I go with the Circuit which is a little bit heavier, but has a frame.

Also, any other places that I can shave some weight? I know the crocs are heavy for camp shoes, and I can easily find something lighter, but they are comfortable and I am not ready to give them up yet. I also really enjoy the NeoAir, I don't sleep well on the closed cell foam pads. Other things I was thinking were to get rid of my mid weight thermal bottoms (9.2 oz) and I could switch out my utility cord for something lighter weight as well.

Thanks in advance for comments/suggestions.

[Marlow]

Okay, let me first say that I'm still kinda a NOOB when it comes to evaluating other's gear lists, but here are my two cents. Depending on when you are planning to start your thru, I would keep the thermal bottoms. I think you will want them. Since you are taking an I-phone, I would consider cutting the camera. The I-phone camera takes pretty high quality photos, plus you'd be able to post them as you go as opposed to them being trapped in your camera. Finally, and again depending on when you are planning to start, you may want to reconsider your sleeping bag. The 15 degree bag might be more than you need. Switching to the Hugger #3 would save you almost a full pound.

[brian039]

I've always kind of wondered how much the weight of your pack really matters. I mean, is a pack that weighs 1lb lighter than another pack exactly the same as carrying 1lb less of stuff inside of a pack? I'm sure it makes some difference but I'd think about that and would like to hear thoughts from people who could actually figure that kind of stuff out first before I spent another $200 on another pack. The Catalyst is a heck of a pack anyways. All your other ideas sound fine but you might want to keep the thermals to wear at night for the rainy days when all your other stuff is wet. I went without any type of camp shoe as I couldn't justify carrying something so single-use. I wore trail-runners and thought they made fine camp shoes as well, but I was definitely in the minority in that thinking.

[kennybrae]

Here's my take on pack weight. If you're carrying 25 lbs of body fat maybe a couple of extra lbs of pack weight is an issue. On the other hand, if you're only carrying 3 or 4 pounds of body fat a pound or two extra pack weight is nothing.

What I suggesting is to look at reducing your belt size as a way to reduce your total load. A heavy pack will still feel like a heavy pack but you'll be able to carry it farther with less energy expense.

[Firefighter503]

@Marlow - I actually attempted a thru last year, but it got cut short due to a family emergency. I am going to make another attempt in 2014 probably. I started in mid march last year, and barely wore my thermals (a couple of nights in the Smokies). Thats why I am torn on wether to keep them or not. I probably will though. As far as the iPhone/Camera thing, I thought about dropping the camera and using the phone only, but the iPhone's camera leaves alot to be desired. It was nice to take pictures and post them as I went last year with the iPhone though. In regards to the sleeping bag - I own a #5 and a #1. The combination of the two has worked out for me so far.

@Brian - The pack weight vs. weight in the pack thing - that is a good question. I am looking at switching up packs due to excess room and reaching a kind of plateau as far as gear goes, without getting really nit picky about an ounce hear and an ounce there. I love the Catalyst, I've just outgrown it in a sense. The old gear goes to one of my many younger siblings that might need gear. I wore boots last year, and had zero problems (1 blister in 650 miles - on a very wet 26 mile day into Damascus). I am looking into trail runners though, with the goal of eliminating the crocs eventually, or at least moving to something minimal like a sandal.

Thanks for the input so far. I think I know the answers to the questions I asked for the most part, but it is nice to have others perspectives.

[doritotex]

"I mean, is a pack that weighs 1lb lighter than another pack exactly the same as carrying 1lb less of stuff inside of a pack?" .....ummm...I think so..Why wouldn't it? Add the total lbs together, and that's what you get. 16 ounces is 16 ounces whether is inside your pack or part of your pack.

[brian039]

"I mean, is a pack that weighs 1lb lighter than another pack exactly the same as carrying 1lb less of stuff inside of a pack?" .....ummm...I think so..Why wouldn't it? Add the total lbs together, and that's what you get. 16 ounces is 16 ounces whether is inside your pack or part of your pack.

Yeah, just wondering though since the pack has straps, provides structure, and some force being lost to tension in the straps how much of that force is actually applied to your feet. I've only had one course in college physics so I know only enough to have this question.

[STICK]

Here is my theory on "pack" weight...or any other weight for that matter:

Cut weight where you can, when you can, but make sure it is appropriate.

In the OP case, it sounds like he needs a smaller pack anyway since he has "plenty of room to spare" in his Catalyst. So, not only is his pack heavier than needs be, but it is also too much volume. In this case, a smaller, lighter pack would totally be worth it...

However, I would suggest to the OP to get/swap all the gear that he plans to use before he gets the other pack though. Find out how much volume is actually needed and then decide on particular packs at that time. Trust me, it will save you some disappointment...

Cutting weight with your pack is one step closer to having a lighter pack. I went from 90 oz pack to an 8.6 oz pack, of course not all at once. But, in taking steps to cutting weight this is what I ended up with...and I plan to pick up a 4 oz pack for my summer gear... It's hard to cut weight if you don't cut weight.

Also, to help balance the weight and my center of gravity somewhat, I have taken to using a Multipack on the front of me. I keep items that I need to get to during the day as well as snacks/lunch for the day in the Multipack so I don't have to rummage through my pack to get at them. This also allows me to do away with hip belt pockets, and having too much extra stuff outside my pack. In the side pocket I have my fuel in one and some Dr B and germ'x in the other, so as you see, nothing much really, In the front larger mesh pocket I keep my rain gear which is less than 1 lb. So, my center of gravity is closer to where it should be. I am not an expert on the matter, but I gotta say that on my last hike my pack rode like a dream. Not pain or discomfort anywhere. When others were hauling their packs off to slack pack I kept mine on and continued to stay well ahead of the pack.

As far as the OP's list:

I agree, cutting out the camera since you have the iPhone would save weight, but I myself enjoy have a real camera. As far as pictures and video, the camera does better than my phone and I don't eat up my phone battery. But, I would bounce the charger...

Get rid of that cord and pick up some of Lawson Kline's Glowire. It is lighter, stronger and way easier to see, even at night. Plus, it is only $10 and last I checked he offered free shipping on orders of $10. I have some and it's good stuff.

Also, what are you using the biner for? If it is something simple like hanging food, get one of the mini biners from either Lawson or Joe at ZPacks.

I would say drop that Nalgene Cantene and just use a Gatorade bottle. It is lighter, easier/cheaper to replace and in my opinion more durable. (I have the cantene too and no longer use it.) Also, are you sure the weight is right on the Platy soft bottle? I have 2 of the 2L (70 oz) Platys, and they both weight 1.3 oz each. I find it funny that a smaller volume bottle would weigh 0.5 oz more...

I am not sure if you are or not, but just carry the part of AWOL's guide that you need.

I would say drop the camp shoes, but that is a personal thing. I know that some people love them. I myself find them dead weight and unneeded...

There are lighter headlamps which are inexpensive. My Princeton Tec Fuel weighs 2.5 oz with batteries. But, my hang up with it is it does not have a red light, or a friend light. (I hate it when people shine their bright lights in my eyes at night...IMO, it's a little disrespectful...)

If it helps you any, here is a list that I use that is good for me down to single digits comfortably. I could go lower, not as comfortably, and wouldn't want to do it more than a night or 2...

Stick's "Winter" Gear List

Anyway, hope this helps some and good luck on your hike!

[tuswm]

I have an OHM 1 and on the site for the OHM 1 it recommends 12 lbs base and 30 max. My base is prob more like 15 when going out with the GF.

22 OHM 1
34 sleeping bag
15 sleeping pad
36 kitchen
49 TT DR tent
7 steri pen
16 shell
16 down insulation layer
= 196 oz = 12.25 lbs + cloths, food, water, ods and ends, electronic, med kit,
I easily knock 4 to 6 pounds off of that when I go solo or with other guys.

and with food and water for a weekend or 3 days i still dont get anywhere near 30 lbs. I I figure I can keep it right around the 30 lbs mark with 7 days of food. but even at 25 pounds its still works fine. I dont think you need to worry about those one or two pounds killing the pack.

If you want a lighter base load to have a lighter base weight thats cool but the OHM can handle mid 20# comfortably all day long.

[Firefighter503]

@Stick - Thanks for the suggestions. I will have to pick up some of that cord. Also you are correct, the biner is for bear bagging - I'm using one of the medium ones, which is a waste of weight. The Nalgene is the 48 oz collapsible one, listed at 2 oz. I haven't actually weighed it, but I think you are probably right that it is not 2 oz. Do you recall what yours weighed? If the 70 oz ones are 1.3 oz, I might just pick that up instead for the extra capacity. Also, I like the collapsible containers because they save so much room when not in use (which I rarely carry more than a liter of water, usually less if there are a number of water sources listed for the day and there has been decent rain). I am only carrying part of the AT Guide as I go, and I was looking at picking up a nicer/lighter headlamp, but it will only save me an ouce or less, so I am not real pressed to do that right away. Also, I will stick with one with a red light mode as well. I am working on the camp shoes thing. Once I get a nice set of trail runners I am hoping to get rid of the crocs, but for now, I wear boots so its nice to have something comfortable to put on at the end of the day.

@Tuswm - I am looking at the Ohm 2.0, which supposedly transfers weight better to the hips, and has a slightly beefier 'frame'. The website states that it recommends a max base weight of 12 still, so I wasnt sure if that is correct. What kind of sleeping pad are you using, and I assume you are using it as a frame for the pack? I'm wondering if the NeoAir will be sufficient as a frame if folded to size.

[tuswm]

Well I have a neo air. the pack has a thin foam pad in the back, you don't need it. I think it makes the pack hot in the summer but you can use it as a sit pad. I think its less than one once. the frame on that pack is substantial. you dont need a pad. ill be glad to take you on a video tour if you find me on skype ocbpjohn.

[Feral Bill]

Re: pack weight
If extra weight of the pack itself goes to comfort features, your hips, shoulders, etc. might notice, so it would be different than extra weight in the pack, or added as non- comfort features (size, pockets, long straps). Of course, your legs moving it uphill wouldn't care at all.

[skinewmexico]

The Circuit is a great pack. You might also check out the Gossamer Gear Mariposa Plus or Gorilla. A smaller pack with certainly force you to optimize your gear. And how much weight would you save if you didn't use a pack cover, and used a trash compactor liner inside you pack instead?

[Wags]

i think your clothes are heavy. the rest of your list looks great.

if funds allow i'd:

-ditch the synthetic insulated jacket for some type of down sweater. save at least 6 ozs.
-ditch the rain jacket and get one of a dozen rain jackets under 7 ozs. save at least 5 ozs.
-will you be wearing both pairs of expedition socks? sounds heavy. why not just carry 1 pair of them for camp use, and thinner, lighter socks for hiking? save an ounce or 2.
-change your cord out like others have said. both lawson and joe at zpacks sell good, cheap, light cord and biners. so does arrowheadequipment. save an ounce or 2.
-agreed w/ others about dropping the camera if you have the iphone. no need for both. save 4.7 ozs.

that is like a pound. if you change your pack over to the ohm2 or a blast from zpacks or an exodus/prophet from mld, you're really starting to dip the weight down towards 11 lbs. i heard good advice here a long time ago. 6 and 6 rule. 6 lbs big 4, 6 lbs everything else.

[STICK]

@Stick - Thanks for the suggestions. I will have to pick up some of that cord. Also you are correct, the biner is for bear bagging - I'm using one of the medium ones, which is a waste of weight. The Nalgene is the 48 oz collapsible one, listed at 2 oz. I haven't actually weighed it, but I think you are probably right that it is not 2 oz. Do you recall what yours weighed? If the 70 oz ones are 1.3 oz, I might just pick that up instead for the extra capacity. Also, I like the collapsible containers because they save so much room when not in use (which I rarely carry more than a liter of water, usually less if there are a number of water sources listed for the day and there has been decent rain). I am only carrying part of the AT Guide as I go, and I was looking at picking up a nicer/lighter headlamp, but it will only save me an ouce or less, so I am not real pressed to do that right away. Also, I will stick with one with a red light mode as well. I am working on the camp shoes thing. Once I get a nice set of trail runners I am hoping to get rid of the crocs, but for now, I wear boots so its nice to have something comfortable to put on at the end of the day.

@Tuswm - I am looking at the Ohm 2.0, which supposedly transfers weight better to the hips, and has a slightly beefier 'frame'. The website states that it recommends a max base weight of 12 still, so I wasnt sure if that is correct. What kind of sleeping pad are you using, and I assume you are using it as a frame for the pack? I'm wondering if the NeoAir will be sufficient as a frame if folded to size.

My 32 oz Nalgene Cantene weighs 2.2 oz. Going by this I would imagine the 48 oz is a little heavier, it very may well be 2 oz, but that may be 2.9 oz too...

My 70 Platy Soft Bottle weighs 1.3 oz.

I carry a single 32 oz Gatorade bottle to actually drink from. I don't like drinking from flexible bottles such as the Nalgene Cantene or the Platy Soft Bottle. A Gatorade bottle weighs 1.3 oz so it is lighter than most other options, and considerably durable, not too mention easy to replace and cheap. YMMV on actual bottles to drink from though.

I agree with you about carrying collapsible bottles though for water collection. I carry one of my 2L Platy's unless I know water will be hard to come by and then I will carry 2 of them. I collect and treat my water in the Platy bottles. I use the tablets, but if I were to be out for a long thru hike I would go with AM drops probably simply due to lower costs over the tabs.

Here are some videos/blog posts on my water system.

I understand about the headlamp only saving an oz or so, but I just wanted to point out that even ounces add up...and at heavier weights they can add up fast, especially on small items like this.

As far as the OHM 2.0, from what I understand, it is simply an OHM pack with the same suspension that is on the Circuit. Also, I think that either of these packs will be great packs. However, it will come down to how much volume do you need. You don't want a pack that is way too big, but you also don't need a pack that will just fit your gear. Be sure to leave enough room in there for as much as 7 - 10 days of food. (They recommend carrying 10 days supply through the 100 mile wilderness.)

[Firefighter503]

@Tuswm - Thanks for the info. I use the NeoAir as well, and just worried that it wouldnt be substantial enough to act as a frame. Glad to hear I won't need it. Thanks for the video tour offer, but the internet is slow here in Afghan. I'll take your word for it!

@skinewmexico - I am sure I would love the Circuit, I just dont want to buy that, and then pick up an Ohm a couple more months down the line. I think I can skip over that one and go straight to the Ohm. I use a pack cover and a liner right now. I am going to trade the pack cover out for a cuben fiber liner at 1.1 oz.

@Wags - Bingo. I know my clothes are too heavy. The crocs dont help that at 13.7 oz. I am planning on picking up a Montbell EX Light Down Jacket that will save about 9 oz. I had 3 pairs of socks total, 2 lighter weight hiking socks for hiking in, and a heavier pair for camp/sleeping in. When I move to trail runners, I will switch to lighter weight socks. You make it sound so good - 'down towards 11 lbs' haha. I like the 6 and 6 rule. Haven't heard that before. With my changes I will be right about there.

@Stick - I hear ya on the ounces make pounds thing. The headlamp is on my longer term list of things to upgrade. I think my gear should fit the Ohm just fine with plenty of room for food. I use a bunch of stuff sacks for everything (had one for rain gear, one for insulated jacket, one for light weight thermals, one for mid weight thermals, one for hat/gloves/socks, etc.), and am going to consolidate to just a few cubin fiber stuff sacks (clothes, cooking, etc.) which will mean my gear will take up even less room hopefully.

[q-tip]

16 ounces is 16 ounces whether is inside your pack or part of your pack--OR ON YOUR BOD....

[TOMP]

Yeah, just wondering though since the pack has straps, provides structure, and some force being lost to tension in the straps how much of that force is actually applied to your feet. I've only had one course in college physics so I know only enough to have this question.

How you carry the weight does matter. Take this extreme example. Lets say you have a 20 lb pack and wear shoes that are 2 lbs total. Most people can go hiking with relative ease. Now imagine you have a 2 lb pack and each shoe weighs 10 lbs. Most people would not attempt to walk any distance with this setup.

The scenario is unrealistic but the point is that you want to put the weight on larger muscles rather than small ones. On your back the weigh is supported by your legs and back. On your feet its just the calves mainly.

But weight in the pack vs weight of the pack, well I doubt there is any difference, unless it was a heavy piece hanging of the side of the pack. If the weight distribution is balanced it shouldnt matter which object is actually heavy.

What I would worry most about with UL packs is how much weight can they carry. Most even say that they are designed for 25lbs or less. Which is fine but something to consider.

[TOMP]

16 ounces is 16 ounces whether is inside your pack or part of your pack--OR ON YOUR BOD....

16 ounces doesnt feel the same in your pack than when its apart of your body. Have you ever helped someone move and a friend asks you to help them lift something. And you ask is it heavy? He says no, its just akward. The item doesnt weigh more than the person can lift but it is distributed unevenly making it more difficult to move.

[Singletrack]

I have ordered 5 or 6 cottage industry packs, and either sold them or sent them back. I had rather use a 2 1/2 pound good suspension pack with an 8 pound load, than carry a 1 pound pack with the same load. Comfort means more to me, than weight. If I were to thru hike, I would use a Granite Gear pack. And would still have a 10 or 11 pound pack weight including pack.