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  1. #1
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    Default List of waters sources with viruses on AT?

    By any chance has anyone accumulated a list of water sources on the AT where viruses have been encountered?

    Also, curious if there is a weighting of more in the southern states over the northern.

    Thanks much.

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    Punchline RWheeler's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if that information is readily available. It's more like, water sources that are sketchy. Based on wildlife and hiker use, water sources can become contaminated on a much shorter scale than it'd take to accumulate this data.

    I may be wrong in this, though. But I feel like this list may just give a false sense of security for whatever isn't​ on that list.

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    There are thousands of water sources on the AT. Each and every one would have to be tested on a regular and frequent basies. That is not going to ever happen. If someone does get sick from water, the incubation time is such that it is impossible to tell where one might have drank bad water, or if water was actually the source. For the most part, we are blessed with good water along the AT.

    Ya drink ya water and take ya chances..
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    Humm....this seems like a good opportunity for some budding environ engineers or such as that...run along and just do a quick water quality check to establish a baseline and provide some general guidance...having a baseline is always a good thing...especially if the only thing that exists is rules of thumb...

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    Punchline RWheeler's Avatar
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    Yes, but if the standard deviation for your baseline is so large that it includes safe and unsafe conditions, then it's useless.

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    it is always best to assume the water source is contaminated.the only times ive skipped the ritual is when a tentsite caretaker has told me hes been drinking the water all year without ill effect.
    why take a chance?

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    Your biggest concern for viruses will be your contact with other people like in shelters, lean toos and hostels. Its hard to stay away, but thats life. Majority of the filtering systems will not filter out viruses. There is one company, SAWYER, that makes a water filter claming to remove 99.99 % of all viruses. Always purify you water source on the trail. The chances of contacting a viruses source is rare when you use a standard water purifying system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrojoe View Post
    Your biggest concern for viruses will be your contact with other people like in shelters
    Ha!!! Funny!!!

    Yeah - was kind of interested if there had been any look at the viruses below 0.02 micron size in the trail water supply. I'm guessing what you say is true, i.e. easier to pick something up in the shelters, etc. but curious if there had been any informal analysis or formal analysis done by the "big" AT Conservancy or filter manufacturers or others out there just to have some big round (aggregate) numbers, or (with rose colored glasses on) down to the individual water source per section...of course this was just a dream...thought it would be interesting...food for thought...all those sorts of campfire type things...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustADude View Post
    By any chance has anyone accumulated a list of water sources on the AT where viruses have been encountered?

    Also, curious if there is a weighting of more in the southern states over the northern.

    Thanks much.
    Just curious, why do you specifically ask about viruses? Bacteria and Protozoa are the pathogens that are most common in bodies of water in the eastern US.

    It would be very hard to get a reliable list of good vs. bad water sources because most of the causes of contamination are temporary. Things such as a recent rains or human/animal activity are common causes of contamination and tend to cause an issue for only short periods of time. The presence of livestock in the vicinity should be a clear indicator to treat water before drinking.

    For the most part, if a water source looks clean and safe it probably is okay to drink, and if you find a spring or water bubbling up directly from the ground, it's almost always safe. The majority of sickness due to a "bad water source" is actually the result of a foodbourne or hygiene related illness that the victim has self diagnosed as waterborne-illness. Over the past couple of decades we've been made to fear drinking water that isn't out of a tap, but it's usually fine. At the end of the day it's up to you to decide if you want to take the risk or not.
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    Well - there's a huge question and all water is suspect - acid from coal run off, dead carcasses in the stream, viruses, and natural occurring poisons such as lead and arsenic.

    Take a peek here: http://water.usgs.gov/wid/html/pa.html

    What poison streams look like.....(if you could tell) Tailingspoison.jpg I took this photo near Johnstown PA of acid damage from coal mines - it will make you very sick if you drank even a little.

    On the other hand, inside Valley Forge National Park. The fish are not edible, nearby streams have Mercury, Arsenic, and Asbestos.

    Fishing reports are a good source about catch limits are areas of water that are not fit to drink... Sections of the Brandywine Creek are off limits, Yet the city of Wilmington DE has to draw from it and filter with huge settling ponds..

    On one hike near Indiantown Gap We were deep in the woods almost off trail and high up on a ridge.... the nearby pools were full of frog eggs and helgramites good indications of clean water, At one point Austin asked if he could take a drink from a point where it was bubbling right out of the ground.... I said ok - the next day - He had the squirts.

    Good luck......
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    Registered User Wise Old Owl's Avatar
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    Default Arsenic

    arsenic_map.gifNatural Arsenic Click on ImageMercury_map.jpgMurcury -click on image


    Radium (Natural above 5 picocurrie)








    I forgot agricultural chemicals - fecal material, phosphates, should I go on?
    Last edited by Wise Old Owl; 03-03-2012 at 00:50.
    Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

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    Registered User Wise Old Owl's Avatar
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    Hey I like this - this is RADON dissolved in Water!

    radon_fig4.gif Are you sure I should keep looking?
    Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

    Woo

  13. #13
    Registered User Wise Old Owl's Avatar
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    Default Ahh found it ....Gardia Lamblia! What a cutie!

    Giardiasis occurs worldwide but is more prevalent in areas with inadequate sanitary conditions and where water treatment facilities and procedures are sub par.1 Unbeknownst to some, giardiasis is also found among people living in developed countries where sanitation is adequate and water supplies are piped and purified.2 Worldwide, it is one of the most important non-viral infections causing diarrheal illness in humans.3 The highest prevalence of giardiasis occurs in the tropics and subtropics. In the United States, giardiasis is the most commonly reported pathogenic protozoan disease.4
    Giardia Incidence, 200210

    Reported incidents per 100,000 population.

    Prevalence rates range from 2-7% in developed countries and 20-30% in most developing countries. In 1987, U.S. state diagnostic laboratories found 7.2% prevalence in stool specimens. The CDC estimates that there are upwards of 2.5 million cases annually.571bfde102fc1d52f9d9852122ad60531a667bcc5_large.jpg
    Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

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  14. #14
    Registered User Wise Old Owl's Avatar
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    Default Roundworm in Georgia

    In the United States there is a reported prevalence of 0.8% of the total population as of 1987. Ascaris lumbricoides eggs are extremely resistant to strong chemicals, desiccation, and low temperatures. The eggs can remain viable in the soil for several months or even years.


    ascaris-map_70516_1.jpg Hmmm 1,812,366 known cases in the U.S.
    Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasm the elf View Post
    Just curious, why do you specifically ask about viruses?
    Well, I was specifically asking about viruses because most affordable general use pump action backpack-able filters alone don't remove viruses.

    (not looking to start a filter debate - just a layman's general observation - it is what it is not good or bad)
    Most of them claim to remove particles down to 0.2 microns (i.e., Giardiasis is most like removed) and not much below that size, and also chemical contaminates such as herbicides, pesticides, and volatile organic compounds (VOCs), but do not to protect you from high chemical concentrations or heavy metal contamination.

    As Wise Old Owl points out (and thanks for all the nation wide info!), the occurrence of heavy chemical concentrations may be another area of concern for those hiking on the trail.

    More and more, it is starting to sound like a go/no-go/maybe/etc. type stream/spring/water source list would be helpful, especially for cases where filtering/drops/tablets/pens would be ineffective and greater measures or all out avoidance of a certain area is necessary.

  16. #16
    Registered User Wise Old Owl's Avatar
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    One of the best stories I learned was testing a filter.... get a glass and put food coloring in it and pump it to another glass.... much of the dye should not get through... I have never tested it but some swear by it for finding a good filter.
    Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustADude View Post
    Well, I was specifically asking about viruses because most affordable general use pump action backpack-able filters alone don't remove viruses.

    (not looking to start a filter debate - just a layman's general observation - it is what it is not good or bad)
    Most of them claim to remove particles down to 0.2 microns (i.e., Giardiasis is most like removed) and not much below that size, and also chemical contaminates such as herbicides, pesticides, and volatile organic compounds (VOCs), but do not to protect you from high chemical concentrations or heavy metal contamination.

    As Wise Old Owl points out (and thanks for all the nation wide info!), the occurrence of heavy chemical concentrations may be another area of concern for those hiking on the trail.

    More and more, it is starting to sound like a go/no-go/maybe/etc. type stream/spring/water source list would be helpful, especially for cases where filtering/drops/tablets/pens would be ineffective and greater measures or all out avoidance of a certain area is necessary.
    No worries about starting a debate with me, I don't bring my filter along very often, but it certainly has its place. When water is plentiful I usually only carry aqua Mira and treat the water only when I think the water source is questionable. When I am hiking in drought conditions I usually bring my filter since it does a good job of removing nastiness from more stagnant water sources, and the suction tube is good for getting water out of puddles and low water sources.
    Some filters also have a carbon core which might help with pesticides or chemical/heavy metal contamination, however I don't know enough about the subject to speak about it in detail.
    Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.

  18. #18
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    Yeah...was looking more for info on the condition of the water on the trail...kind of along the lines of what Wise Old Owl was providing...looking for info on which streams/springs/water supplies are known to be virus contaminated or have been in the past...kind of a snapshot of the condition of the water on the trail...

  19. #19
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    to me it's all good. i've never treated or filtered any water

  20. #20

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    1. Prefilter: for sediment, then...

    2. Bacteria: a filter (ie: Sawyer water filter), then...

    3. Chemicals (hopefully most, but the best you could do as a layman) = carbon filters (theres a youtube video on how to jury-rig Katadyn carbon filter onto a Sawyer water filter), then...

    4. Viruses: steripen.

    Yep, its involved, sadly.

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