Alcohol Stove and Below Freezing Temps

[ljcsov]

Hey all,

Today I did a little day hike up to Clark's Ferry Shelter. After reaching the top of the ridge I noticed that the temperature hovered around 20F this morning. I attempted to make myself some lunch after arriving at the shelter but the fuel would not burn. With me, I carried the denatured alcohol you find in hardware stores in the large square tin containers at the hardware store. I believe it's used for for boats and whatnot. Anyway, I wonder if it was just the low temperature that affected my less than successful lunch today? Perhaps a different type of alcohol works better below freezing?

I picked up some HEET in the yellow container. It seems a lot of people use that stuff so I hope that'll solve my problem. It was kind of disappointing hauling back a ziplock bag filled with frozen noodles and tuna. Fail.

By the way, I have tested my stove set up. I have a stove from www.bottlestoves.com (sweet deal) that has worked fine on test runs. It couples nicely with my Optimus Terra weekender cookset ordinarly.

Thanks!

[Papa D]

I think that alcohol stoves have their place as a "fast and light" tool for solo, "seasonal" backpacking - they are (in my opinion) woefully inadequate for winter camping use -- I use an alcohol stove (home-made) some and also use a pocket rocket but in winter, the liquid fuel whisper-light usually gets the call.

[ljcsov]

I think that alcohol stoves have their place as a "fast and light" tool for solo, "seasonal" backpacking - they are (in my opinion) woefully inadequate for winter camping use -- I use an alcohol stove (home-made) some and also use a pocket rocket but in winter, the liquid fuel whisper-light usually gets the call.

Perhaps the low temps messed with the alcohol. I could get it lit for short periods of time but it wouldn't stay for long. Also, it was a pain to even get started for the short duration the flame lasted. Normally, any slight spark near that future ignites it instantly. I even had a wind screen around it as well. Oh well.

I guess esbit works fine at low temps?

[Storm]

I have used my alcohol stove down to about 12 degrees. I carry the alcohol in my jacket pocket and also keep a little baggie of dryer lint handy. I usually light the stove with a fire steel and sometimes have to put a little piece of dryer lint on top and light that to get the fuel going.

[Papa D]

Previous posters have much more knowledge about alcohol stoves than me - so, I guess they WILL work when it's super cold - I still think of it as more applicable in warm weather given the choice

[Spokes]

Denatured alcohol doesn't vaporize well in freezing temperatures. Like Storm mentioned in his post above, a simple solution is to warm your fuel bottle before using. Toss it in your pants or under your shirt next to your skin for a bit just before using your stove.

No worries.

[Toli]

Hey all,

Today I did a little day hike up to Clark's Ferry Shelter. After reaching the top of the ridge I noticed that the temperature hovered around 20F this morning. I attempted to make myself some lunch after arriving at the shelter but the fuel would not burn. With me, I carried the denatured alcohol you find in hardware stores in the large square tin containers at the hardware store. I believe it's used for for boats and whatnot. Anyway, I wonder if it was just the low temperature that affected my less than successful lunch today? Perhaps a different type of alcohol works better below freezing?

I picked up some HEET in the yellow container. It seems a lot of people use that stuff so I hope that'll solve my problem. It was kind of disappointing hauling back a ziplock bag filled with frozen noodles and tuna. Fail.

By the way, I have tested my stove set up. I have a stove from www.bottlestoves.com (sweet deal) that has worked fine on test runs. It couples nicely with my Optimus Terra weekender cookset ordinarly.

Thanks!

I was in Slaughter Gap last weekend, temps below 20 degrees, and with a windscreen and 1oz. of fuel was able to boil 12 oz of H2o... I was using Smokeater908's Rollover Stove(TOTALLY BAD A$$) and a TiGoat 450ml cup with the Carbon Fibre lid... I have never had a problem boiling water with SLX fuel... Granted it took an ounce of fuel, when normally it takes half that...

[Papa D]

I was in Slaughter Gap last weekend, temps below 20 degrees, and with a windscreen and 1oz. of fuel was able to boil 12 oz of H2o... I was using Smokeater908's Rollover Stove(TOTALLY BAD A$$) and a TiGoat 450ml cup with the Carbon Fibre lid... I have never had a problem boiling water with SLX fuel... Granted it took an ounce of fuel, when normally it takes half that...

I was out last weekend too - between Hot Springs and Erwin - good snow - I boiled two hot water bottles each night and had plenty of fuel for coffee, hot chocolate and dinners - glad to know someone else was out

[ken209]

never had a problem with my homemade wick stove and using yellow heet.

[ljcsov]

Hopefully using the yellow HEET along with warming my fuel up with my body heat will solve the problem. Thanks!

[Toli]

I was out last weekend too - between Hot Springs and Erwin - good snow - I boiled two hot water bottles each night and had plenty of fuel for coffee, hot chocolate and dinners - glad to know someone else was out

Believe it or not, Woods Hole Shelter was full PLUS there were 5 more tents besides mine when I woke up Sunday morning... Including an REI rental tent... Pretty cool...

[QiWiz]

Denatured alcohol doesn't vaporize well in freezing temperatures. Like Storm mentioned in his post above, a simple solution is to warm your fuel bottle before using. Toss it in your pants or under your shirt next to your skin for a bit just before using your stove.

No worries.

I've used alcohol stoves down to -5 degrees F. May even work lower than that, but I've not had the opportunity to try. I backpack all winter and always take an alcohol stove, unless I will need to melt snow, in which case I'd recommend a woodburning or white gas stove.

The colder it is, the more you have to be clever lighting your alcohol stove. Once the stove and fuel are warm, the alcohol will continue to vaporize and no problems. Warming fuel in your pocket helps. If you put something under the stove to insulate it from cold ground or snow, that will help as well.

Some stove-lighting techniques that I've used: [1] dip a thick twig in alcohol and light the twig with your lighter and use the flaming twig end to light your stove (thanks to Handlebar for teaching me this one); [2] wrap your stove in fiberglass wick material (at home) and drip alcohol onto the wicking wrap and light that (I got my fiberglass wick from Tinny at MiniBull Designs); [3] put a small foil or flashing square with a turned up edge under your stove and drip some alcohol into this and light with soaked twig method (some stoves like the Caldera Cone stoves I use have a basin like this permanently attached to the stove); [4] when all else fails, use part of a cotton ball with some vaseline in it right next to your stove, light it and the flame from the cotton ball should get everything going; [5] especially in high wind, don't forget a good wind screen.

[Spokes]

Yep, good points.

[Tinker]

I hiked with the "Parade of Fools" from Pen-Mar north a couple of years ago in winter. I used a Supercat stove and kept my fuel bottle either in my jacket pocket or sleeping bag. I had no trouble lighting it (the stove), and it boiled water (which I also slept with) nearly as fast as it does in the warmer months.

I think that non-pressurized stoves are easier to use, generally. They don't need priming pans or wicks, which add weight, and the Supercat doesn't need a pot stand, which adds weight and requires the use of a taller wind screen.

So, 1) Keep your fuel and water warm, and

2) Try a Supercat stove.

Btw: I use SLX denatured alcohol.

[Franco]

ljcsov
For me the easiest way to light an alcohol stove at below freezing temps is by using a small bit of cotton impregnated with petroleum jelly (Vaseline)
You put that over the rim and into the burner so that it reaches the fuel. It will light at any temp heating up the burner and the fuel and the fuel will light up and remain lit up.
I find that many alcohol stoves work best if you start with more fuel than you need.
And that is why I use a snuffer to put the flame out and recover fuel once done.
See this video on how I do that :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX9j7...4&feature=plcp
I am using there the Caldera Cone stove and a White Box very similar to yours.
(Yes, have some insulation under the stove. A silicone pad of the type used as a pot lifter can work)
BTW, I don't use alcohol if I know I will need to melt snow...
Franco

[kayak karl]

never had a problem, but i've only been down to zero (heard you need to keep fuel warm below that) . i use a Caldera from anti-gravity and whatever denatured the hostels are selling me.

[rocketsocks]

never had a problem, but i've only been down to zero (heard you need to keep fuel warm below that) . i use a Caldera from anti-gravity and whatever denatured the hostels are selling me.

A small copper wire placed inside the fuel chamber and extruding to the outside then bent toward the flame may keep the fuel warm.This is how a sunshine miners lamp I have works,and pretty well.These lamps in the 1800's used bacon fat and tallow as whale oil was very expensive,though any fat will burn and the fuels most definitely varied.

[Lyle]

Same problems as the SVEA white gas stove has in extreme cold. You need to warm the fuel prior to lighting, and keep it warm while burning. My suggestions:

- as others have said, keep fuel in a jacket pocket where your body heat will keep it warm
- pre-heat the stove with some kind of primer, Colin Fletcher used to use his teabag wrapper held underneath the stove
- insulate the stove from the ground, I use a small square of closed cell foam. Wrap it in foil if you fear it will ignite (never has in years of using it with my SVEA
- use a good wind screen, maybe a Caldera Cone would be best. This reflects heat back to the stove during a burn

[Spokes]

A small copper wire placed inside the fuel chamber and extruding to the outside then bent toward the flame may keep the fuel warm.This is how a sunshine miners lamp I have works,and pretty well.These lamps in the 1800's used bacon fat and tallow as whale oil was very expensive,though any fat will burn and the fuels most definitely varied.

I'd like to see a picture of that. Any chance you could post a close-up?

I suspect Zelph will start cranking out stoves based on that description any day now..... :-)

[rocketsocks]

To expand a (little).You can use a bic lighter or glowing ember to heat the little copper wire,which transfers heat very well do to it's....(explained better by others),and then when fuel is warmed (and it won't take long 15-20sec or so)light stove.Hope this helps.