And those people are NOT long distance hikers because sooner or later you will be cold, tired and in pain and having a fantastic time.Originally Posted by moongoddess
Well I must admit that I do have a sizeable gear closet at home. However much of my older gear from the 70's has been going on consignment at Ragged Mountain (& selling). Started making the conversion to lighter weight gear about 7 years ago afetr getting blisters in my heavy high boots dayhiking in the Smokies. Picked up Ray Jardines book & Ryan Jordan's Backpacking light book for free (I was working in retail for the AMC at Pinkham, got sample books in & my boss could care less about backpacking so he gave them to me). Now I go into my local stores in North Conway with a kitchen scale, weigh everything to a tenth of an oz. I never think twice about what I carry for a day hike & even in the summer I carry 8-10lbs dayhiking. Nothing like living in the Whites to make you aware of safety. Working front desk & trail info at the AMC at both Pinkham & Crawford Notches, well I can tell plenty of stories. & don't even get me started about stories after working for the MT. Wash. Auto Road for the last 7 years. You talk about carrying 2 much; I don't even try to lecture people hiking up Tuckerman's dressed all in cotton, already soaked. No pack, already drank their 20oz dasani but they have their cellphone ready to call for help. I used to backpack with 40-45 lbs. but am starting NOBO on the 24th. My wife & I are baseweight at 15 each. We could go lighter but don't want to give up our neo's & air pillows. Or 2 jackets each. or lots of other things. & yes, I am thinking of carrying a few mouse traps, I figure I won't make a dent in the population but think I will wake up in the morning feeling better after nailing a few of the little suckers.
Forgot to mention that more than one friend has been surprised to hear that I am not packing a gun on my hike!
[QUOTE=Maren;1266884]I came from a family of avid indoors people. /QUOTE]
Thank you for this, just perfect.
As for why I choose to bring a number of luxuries:
I enjoy the camp as much as the hike.
I measure my hikes based on the number of hours in the forests rather than the number of miles walked or peaks bagged.
I like to cook in the backcountry.
I want to enable UL hikers to feel superior to me.
It provides an excuse for walking slowly and stopping to take lots of pictures.
I have learned a lot from reading UL and LW hiking blogs and from that I have learned to reduce my pack weight significantly which does make for a more enjoyable hike.
BUT UL fanatics are as borish as the packmule fanantics and the hammock fanatics.
Whatever you do, don't buy your hiking gear from Goldman Sachs.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/15/bu...ll-street.html
Because you NEED all that extra gear. I need that double headed axe and my hobnail boots...to go where the timber is tall, and tack on the 12 pack of beer in your pack too. Anyone have a pack ox handy...preferably in blue.
No message.
[QUOTE=Tom Murphy;1266922]I agree completely! I learn a lot here but geez Louise! "Boorish" is the word!
"You're a nearsighted, bitter old fool."
Fanatics of any stripe are boorish (and boring as well). No one needs to apologize for carrying luxuries! But there's a difference between thoughtful packing (of any type) and the sort of loads the OP was commenting on. Most of those folks simply hadn't given any consideration to just how much weight their bodies can reasonably be expected to carry over a long distance, and what things they REALLY need/want on their hike. And (as I said in my first post on this thread) I think that's because they just didn't realize that pack weight was something they seriously needed to think about before they set off on their adventure.
No one has mentioned that those big, heavy packs from Dana, Gregory, etc. make it possibe for very heavy loads to feel totally comfortable on your back. Moving it uphill is, of course, another matter. I suspect average loads for experienced people peaked sometime after the introduction of padded waistbelts and before the introduction of UL gear.
"It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how." ---Dr. Seuss
Well I have been on the trail severly under weight and paid a high price with froze bitten fingers, hard cold raw noodles, and wet clothes because I had no stove and only 1 pair of clothes which I was wearing. Even experienced hikers buy gear and mail stuff home at or after Neel's Gap.
Most of it is due to anxiety on part of hikers whom think they NEED the items. You tend to rationalize the need for an object even though you may only use it a few times like a hatchet or laptop computer. You then lose sight of the weight and it adds up.... I tend to think a pack shakedown is a good thing before you leave on a hike or on a NOBO thru its almost a crime not to get one at Mountain Crossings...a second set of eyes really helps.
Number 1 reason is ignorance. I had always wanted to hike the AT but didn't make my decision until about 3 months ago. Until then, I had been in Boy Scouts for 7 years, been backpacking on 2-3 week trips 6 or 7 times, and have gone on weekend trips at least 100 times. Carrying a lot of weight was always a given. I'm 6'4" and weigh 275 lbs. Carrying 40 or 50 lbs. was never a problem.
When I decided to do this, I knew I had to do research. But it wasn't about the weight. It was about getting supplies on the trail, maps, etc. Along the way, I learned that in order to increase my odds of making it to Maine, I had to go lighter. I switched out my sleeping bag and tent for a down bag and tarp tent. Right there, I saved over 5 lbs. My base weight w/o food is 18.5 lbs. Three months ago it probably would have been 40 lbs.
When you go camping and backpacking 5 or 6x a year, it doesn't really cross your mind that you need to go lighter. It's ingrained in your head that you will carry weight. I'm sure if you ask the random person how much weight a thru-hiker carries, you'll hear them say 50 or 60 lbs. if not more.
My question isn't why people carry so much stuff. It's why don't they educate themselves before doing a hike like this? I mean even if you are just looking up where the trail starts and ends, you can't really miss out on learning something basic as carrying less weight. So when people show up on a hike like this w/ that much weight, I want to ask why they didn't do research. Because had they done so, they wouldn't be carrying so much weight.
My coworker is preparing to hike the GA section of the AT and he even has read Mike Cleeland's book, talked with me about my 10-12 lb base weight and still went out and bought a 3 lb sleeping bag, a 5 lb 2 man dome tent (for just himself), and a 6lb Gregory backpack. His pack will be 40-50 lbs before it is over. His logic is to save money and he just likes haing a bigger tent, he wants a supportive pack, and he wanted the extra room of the 2 man tent, he just likes dome tents better. He also mentions that he wants to buy gear that will last so no skimpy TarpTent is gonna do.
I think it all sounds good until you put it on your back and go hiking.
When I frist started I had an old Gregory 7lb pack. I started buying (luckily all from REI) and when I got to 35 lbs at about 75% of what I wanted to bring (no food or water) I decided to load it up and put it on my back. I went to lift it up and said WHOAAAAAA NOW! I need to stop here a second this ain't gonna be fun. I had heard of light backpacking so I googled it, came upon www.backpackinglight.com, ended up returning most of what I had bought, sold that old pack, several spreadsheets later here I am at 10.7lb base weight for my next trip and a lot happier when I go.
One argument that convinced me is that you don't see hardly anyone that goes lighter and regrets it, only people that have never gone light sticking to their guns and you have to figure they are defending their positions not wanting to admit they are wrong, have to buy all new gear, etc. I see a lot of this 'man-up' attitude but to me that is like doing something the hard way for the sake of doing it the hard way which amkes zero sense to me. At 10.7 lbs I gaurantee I will be warm, comfortable, sleep well with a pillow and a nice pad, I will have fire, stove, pot and warm food...why would I want to carry more? What do you have that I don't (except maybe a chair
The mistake I made, twice, was to assume that simply because they sell the stuff for backpacking, that I must need it for backpacking. First time was when I was 24 years old, 6' 160 pounds, and didn't really notice the weight. I actually lent the pack and gear to a girlfriend that was only 5 feet tall. Boy was she pissed, and I still didn't clue in. Second time was when I was about 38, 200 pounds or so, on a winter trek. After getting snowed in misdirected a little and trudging an extra 2 days something was starting to sink in. Then a friend mentioned this idea of going lighter, and with my engineering background, and competitive sailing background, finally, LIGHT BULB !!! I still haven't taken it to any extreme. What I have done is left an extreme behind. I'm also alot more skeptical, even cynical, about _anything_ that people try to sell me, and anything I decide I want to buy. I look for simpler, cheaper, solutions, and they are usually very light.
Well, if the machete and gun carrying, cotton and boot wearing hiker makes it to Katahdin, who cares. HYOH
BTW, one of my friends has this macho attitude of 'who cares, just load it up and lets go' or 'what difference does 5 or 10 lbs make?'
Now that I am down to about 10lbs base weight I plan to ask if he would carry my pack for me since 10lbs "does not make a difference"
I'm starting my through hike attempt around May 1, and I've been reading this forums for a bit and have gotten some good advice as well as some bad(for me) advice. It took me a while to realize HYOH also means, GGTFY(Get Gear That Fits You). I started out buying some really ultralight stuff, then went and did some test hikes and just wasn't comfortable AT ALL! So after more research I realized that I would have to go up in weight to get gear that fit me. And after I made some new gear purchases, went on more test hikes, I realized that while yes it was a bit heavier, when I do need to sleep/rest I will get a much better quality of sleep/rest which will allow me to keep hauling those few extra lbs for miles each day. So I view it as an overall quality of life. I respect the people who can go UL with tiny pads and barely there shelter...that's not me. My best chance to finish my through hike attempt is to be able to get good quality sleep/rest at night, and to do that I will carry a little extra weight. And before you say, "You need to do more research!!", I promise you, I've done my research. I'll be leaving with my pack weighing in around 25lbs base weight, and 35lbs with food and water. That's heavy to some, not really that heavy to me. And if I feel like I can do it, I may tack on more food and skip a few trail towns because I'd rather spend more time on the trail. Just my 2cents.
I will never understand why experienced hikers flock to Georgia during such the crowded start season to meet and greet. I guess if you are lonely and feel a need to "share" with the newbies it might make sense.
I don't re-visit that section in the early spring, I leave the crowds to the crowds.
The trouble I have with campfires are the folks that carry a bottle in one hand and a Bible in the other.
You never know which one is talking.
I really don't care what someone else had in their pack, but I do feel sorry for them when carrying too much weight negatively affects their journeys.
Can anyone here honestly say that they never made a wrong gear choice? I know I have.
Some people take the straight and narrow. Others the road less traveled. I just cut through the woods.
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