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  1. #21
    Registered User Wise Old Owl's Avatar
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    once you meet someone that has it.... its no joke.


    Last edited by Wise Old Owl; 04-13-2012 at 20:44.
    Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

    Woo

  2. #22

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    that is awesome! thanks for sharing
    2-G

  3. #23

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    i meant the u-tube video
    Quote Originally Posted by grego View Post
    that is awesome! thanks for sharing
    2-G

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Old Owl View Post
    once you meet someone that has it.... its no joke.


    Wow....and there's the reality!

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by sterling98 View Post
    I'm doing a section from damascus to fox creek in a week. Will a 35* bag be sufficient? The weather for Damascus says the lows will be in the 40's...
    I would use the forecast for Whitetop, Virginia, rather than Damascus. Whitetop is closer to the elevation of the section you will be doing. Having said that, the overnight lows don't look too bad right now. You could probably get away with a 35* bag, but I would bring along a down coat and hat to use along with your bag just in case. Personally, I would take my 15*, but I am very cold sleeper.
    Some people take the straight and narrow. Others the road less traveled. I just cut through the woods.

  6. #26
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    There's no saying if a 35* bag will be enough when the forecast is 40*. I heard this piece of wisdom years ago: "A XX* bag doesn't mean it'll keep you comfortable at XX*, it'll keep you alive at XX*". I carry a 20* bag in the spring/fall. My last section had nights in the low 30s, and my feet were cold.
    …speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee… –JOB 12:8

  7. #27
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    Those frostbite pictures are gruesome! According to the expert lectures as the 2008 Wilderness Medicine conference in Big Sky MO - the WORST thing you can do to frost bite is thaw it, then RE-freeze it. If you're truly frostbitten and you get yourself warmed - KEEP yourself warmed - the thawing and refreezing leads to those black necrotic digits and tissue death. I don't know how useful that can be on the trail - you never MEAN to get re-frozen...but if you're in a bad place, you HAVE to get off the trail.... Just what the Wilderness Medicine doctor's say.

    They also recommend good old (cheap) paper tape for blister care. Leaves less residue. I find it works well when your blister's been properly drained and you have a CLEAN foot to adhere tape to (any dirt or sweat prevents it from sticking) -- which is likely why everyone uses duct tape.

    And 4 days worth of lectures on other stuff. Was an awesome conference if anyone is into that kind of thing. I got extra lucky since I expensed it as my annual "educational CME lecture".
    …speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee… –JOB 12:8

  8. #28
    Registered User sterling98's Avatar
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    Default Worried about thru hikers dropping cold weather gear too early

    Shoot. The weather just went off a cliff in The Grayson Highlands. Rain 5 out of 7 days, temps in the low 30s. Looks like I'll be hauling the old three pounder.... I was so pumped to use my new bag. :P
    On a different note, all the thrus who have dumped their warm stuff already will be in for some cold and wet nights...

  9. #29
    Registered User Wise Old Owl's Avatar
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    Well ya got rain nothing up here.
    Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

    Woo

  10. #30
    Registered User Papa D's Avatar
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    I think that cold weather gear should be dropped in a couple of stages - - even in July, I have a wool or fleecy sweater, stocking cap and rain jacket. These items along with some hot tea should prevent hypothermia whether it's a cold rain at 50 degrees or even when the mercury dips lower. You should never be without some coldish weather protection.

  11. #31
    Registered User Papa D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Old Owl View Post
    once you meet someone that has it.... its no joke.



    these are frostbite photos - - and they are not pretty but this is not going to happen at Thomas Knob Shelter on the AT in April - - probably not even in January. The danger is hypothermia which should be preventable of you are mindful and have some basic stuff to keep you dry and warm.

  12. #32

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    yep! nice to have a fall back position. it is not frostbite that worries me its hypothermia!

  13. #33
    Registered User Wise Old Owl's Avatar
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    Yep Papa D... and Hypothermia kills too... it was to make a point... and I did not use the worst case - I actually toned it down here at WB, well because I would like to keep friends close....

    IF you would like to see the worst..https://www.google.com/search?q=wors...ient=firefox-a
    Last edited by Wise Old Owl; 04-16-2012 at 21:28.
    Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

    Woo

  14. #34
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    I was hiking south through Va to Damascus finishing just a few daysago, I knew better to not send my winter gear home even though there wasmultiple HOT weather days. A week or so ago we had a cold snap and everyonewoke up with their water bottles frozen (just outside of Atkins.) Since I washiking south I heard all about those hikers who sent there cold weather gearhome because of weight, needless to say multiple people went to the thriftstore and got fleece pull over, blankets, and other (heavy) gear to stay warm.

    When I got to the Highlands yes the sun was shining and it was hot whilehiking, as soon as your stop and the breeze blows you freeze. Rule of thumb forany hiker, have a little extra clothing and warmer bag when going through thehighlands...Elevation plays a rule out on the east coast just like the westcoast.


  15. #35
    Registered User Papa D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wise Old Owl View Post
    Yep Papa D... and Hypothermia kills too... it was to make a point... and I did not use the worst case - I actually toned it down here at WB, well because I would like to keep friends close....

    IF you would like to see the worst..https://www.google.com/search?q=wors...ient=firefox-a
    I totally agree - - I treated a friend who ended up only loosing a small piece of his toe for frostbite in Wyoming in 2003 when we were caught on a mountain overnight. Hypothermia can certainly be a killer and it would be the most appropriate worry to highlight here on WB (not frostbite). It should be noted that the "prime time" temperatures and conditions for hypothermia are between 30 and 50 degrees when it is wet and when people are un-prepared. Interestingly enough, when the temps are well below freezing, it is not as common - folks are dryer and more prepared, I suppose.
    I'm sure that there must have been cases of frostbite on the AT at rare times suffered by winter hikers but this post was about ditching your winter gear too early in the spring - - you will die of hypothermia at 40 something degrees long, long, before you get frostbite on the AT.
    Last edited by Papa D; 04-18-2012 at 08:29.

  16. #36
    Registered User Papa D's Avatar
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    Hypothermia is caused by a drop in core temperature and the body's attempt to compensate. Typically, the signs you want to look for in cases of mild hypothermia (stage 1) are uncontrolled shivering, confusion and disorientation, shallow breathing and pale skin. The treatment is to immediately identify the situation, and warm the victim. This can be accomplished with warm dry clothes, warm liquid beverages like hot tea. Stopping what you are doing, getting into a tent in a dry sleeping bag and making some tea or hot chocolate can solve the problem very quickly. If appropriate, vigorous activity (like jumping jacks) might also provide some quick warmth. Stage one hypothermia can sneak up on you and so you should be watchful - - it is also usually fairly easily treatable on the trail. A good re-warming and a good nights sleep would typically be all you need.

    If the person has stopped shivering and is not reacting to voice stimulus, you have a much more serious problem of "stage 2" hypothermia or and must carefully and completely warm the patient without any delay - just as you would in stage 1 but with a much greater sense of urgency and care. This person needs you to save their life right then and there. This person should get out of the woods and to a warmer place as soon as possible. You might encounter a situation where someone by-passes stage one and goes straight to stage 2 - - falling into a cold river in winter and being soaked to the bone comes to mind. Treatment in the field would be difficult.

    Encountering a stage 3 hypothermic patient on the AT would be rare. This person is near death - organ failure is imminent - they would be very pale, bluish, and barely alive - - this person needs to be transported to critical care immediately but very carefully as their body may be in a fragile "metabolic icebox" - - rewarming should be performed by medical professionals in a hospital very, very slowly and carefully. A stage 3 hypothermic patient can easily be mistaken for dead as they will have the faintest of vital signs. Stage 2 / 3 can almost always be avoided in backpacking settings by immediate attention to mild hypothermia.
    Last edited by Papa D; 04-18-2012 at 08:37.

  17. #37

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    Papa D, thanks for posting that,most have read these type treatments at one time or another,and thank god we don't have to use them if at all.So it is important to read this every once in a while to keep it kind of fresh.Been so long ago that I learned CPR not sure I could do it today,so time for me to re-read that as well.

  18. #38
    AT 4000+, LT, FHT, ALT Blissful's Avatar
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    Sending gear home early happens all the time with newbie thrus who think they are tough. (i recall in '07 hikers shivering in 40 degree bags)
    They'll get a wake up check...







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  19. #39
    AT 4000+, LT, FHT, ALT Blissful's Avatar
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    Hypothermia is a real issue in the Whites. My son had it, thank goodness my hubby recognized it. I never forgot it.







    Hiking Blog
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  20. #40
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    It has snowed in the NC mountains as late as May.
    Hammock Hanger by choice

    Warbonnet BlackBird 1.7 dbl


    www.neusioktrail.org

    Bears love people, they say we taste just like chicken.

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