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Thread: why no privy's

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miner View Post
    I suppose these people having difficulty making a deep cathole are the same ones that talk about how easy it is to dig one with just their shoe heel?
    Bingo, you got it, many have given up carrying a few extra oz with the hopes of digging through a mat of duff, and then finally all agreeing that "When in Rome" type attitude, discusting really, I'd like to rub the offendings nose in it. Just dig the dam hole people, not that big a deal. Quiz wiz even sells light weight trowels, buy one if you don't want the weight off the plastics, that way you can save a couple grams, flipping ridiculous.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miner:1314264
    Quote Originally Posted by jigsaw View Post
    all around the shelter perimiter there is a pile of crap. you have to real careful where you set up your tent.
    I suppose these people having difficulty making a deep cathole are the same ones that talk about how easy it is to dig one with just their shoe heel?
    I had to chuckle at this one! Very insightful.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hikes in Rain View Post
    Unfortunately, seriously. Yet another example of bureaucracy overpowering common sense.
    You gotta love them bureaucrats http://www.usnews.com/news/world/art...-london-curfew


    All in the interest of: "in the interest of the public's health and safety." Freakin' Bureaucrats

  4. #24
    Registered User theinfamousj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pony View Post
    I started a thread about this a few years ago. I can't remember exactly what was said, but I asked Bob Peoples when I stayed at Kincora and all he said was "we just don't". I'm sure someone involved with the TEHCC will chime in.
    I have the same recollection as you. I remember a quite lively discussion about why a wheelchair ramp needed to be built for a privy that is not wheelchair accessible, and then it evolved into a discussion about all the different types of disabilities that are not "wheelchair". That was back when Ma Dino was moderating as Rock was out hiking, IIRC.

  5. #25

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    When we (TEHCC) moved, and dug a new pit for the privy at Overmountain Shelter last month, this topic was discussed through out the day. There are alot of reasons that there is only one privy on this section of the AT, but the biggest reason (in my opinion) is maintenance and accessibility. The 137 miles of trail between Spivey Gap and Damascus are maintained by a small but dedicated core group of men and women from TEHCC, and our priority is maintaining and improving the trail, shelters and water sources.

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    I was there when the new Overmountain privy was completed and yall left.

    Saw many piles of human crap on the stretch from Erwin north, even next to water sources, and right off the trail on balds.

    Bathrooms at Carvers were locked, may cause some of it. But if Im greeted by a cloud of flies when I lift a seat on a privy, Im probably going to go dig a hole somewhere without flies attacking me.

  7. #27
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    A simple throne on a hole can be ADA compliant. It doesn't need a ramp or grab bars to be accessible.

    And why no privies? Because hikers should be able to handle their own sh%t!

  8. #28

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    I'm kind of astounded about the lack of cat hole digging that I'm hearing about on the trail. On my local trail, we have dog crap everywhere and I get disgusted by the, A. Smell, B. Laziness of people. I realize it gets a ton of traffic, but it's kind of crummy that people are doing it on the AT. Aforementioned, just dig a freaking hole.

    Attachment 16719


    People shouldn't complain about weight...

    Do the top half all the way around if you want something more sturdy.
    Last edited by Half Note; 07-24-2012 at 17:51.

  9. #29
    Registered User weary's Avatar
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    Building a shelter, without building a privy, is an act of vandalism. Allowing a shelter to remain, without a privy is irresponsible. A privy can be as simple as an upside down wooden box perched above a hole, with an opening at the top. Yes. Federal regs that require handicap access, are silly. But neither are they hard to follow. If you insist on housing your privy box in a building, handicap access requires only a wider door and enough space to turn around a wheel chair.

    The tiny Maine Appalachian Trail Club, which manages a couple of hundred miles of the AT trail system, goes beyond the minimum requirements for its new privies. We build them mostly above ground, to encourage better decomposition of waste matter, which complicates the construction. But they are routinely built by small groups of maintainers over a weekend or so.

    Even if every hiker followed good waste disposal practices, the practice can't work over time. Quickly good nearby soil is used up and it becomes cat holes being dug into cat holes. But every hiker won't dig a cat hole. Most don't know any better. It's just walking, remember. Only a tiny percentage read anything before heading to the hills with their lunches and packs.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by weary View Post
    Building a shelter, without building a privy, is an act of vandalism. Allowing a shelter to remain, without a privy is irresponsible. A privy can be as simple as an upside down wooden box perched above a hole, with an opening at the top. Yes. Federal regs that require handicap access, are silly. But neither are they hard to follow. If you insist on housing your privy box in a building, handicap access requires only a wider door and enough space to turn around a wheel chair.

    The tiny Maine Appalachian Trail Club, which manages a couple of hundred miles of the AT trail system, goes beyond the minimum requirements for its new privies. We build them mostly above ground, to encourage better decomposition of waste matter, which complicates the construction. But they are routinely built by small groups of maintainers over a weekend or so.

    Even if every hiker followed good waste disposal practices, the practice can't work over time. Quickly good nearby soil is used up and it becomes cat holes being dug into cat holes. But every hiker won't dig a cat hole. Most don't know any better. It's just walking, remember. Only a tiny percentage read anything before heading to the hills with their lunches and packs.
    I agree with some of what you say and imply concerning shelters and privies (lets get rid of the shelters and be done then right?), but think that we should still expect folks to "know better". I do not think the message has been offered to the "goofer" public effectively. Go to extra 200 yards or start taking a dump before you get to the shelter. That said, given the current state of the goofers out there, privies are usually a necessary evil as you suggest.

    Federal regs that require a uniformity for persons with disabilities aren't silly. They provide blind, deaf and mobility impaired persons with a little uniformity in man made structures which are built in an environment (the woods), that has its own and very different set of regularities. Your point that the regs are not hard to follow is the important point here. Best solution: don't build anything, it will be ADA compliant.

  11. #31
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    Well I will bring something to the table you haven't thought of, Crap will bring unwanted infestations. Not to mention e coli and other nuciences. Bugs - roaches love crap and shelter mice will eat the roaches.

    I dont see the problem with thunder boxes except when others do a code brown and miss the box.

    thunderbox.jpg
    Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

    Woo

  12. #32
    Registered User Tennessee Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digger'02 View Post
    And why no privies? Because hikers should be able to handle their own sh%t!
    Quote of the day.

    I also love some of my club's sayings on privies..."Who wants to carry in a heavy rock bar to knock down a poo pile in a privy..." and "Its a wilderness experience...deal with it."

    I never found any troubles finding a tree 50' off trail to hide behind, digging a cathole, and filling it in with dirt and covering with rocks or leaves in the TN/NC area.

    And privies usually mean more maintenance.
    ''Tennessee Viking'
    Mountains to Sea Trail Hiker & Maintainer
    Former TEHCC (AT) Maintainer

  13. #33
    Registered User ChinMusic's Avatar
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    I often tent near shelters. If there is no privy, my plan is to socialize, water-up, and move on. The thought of setting up my tent over crap is one thing I don't want to deal with.
    Fear ridges that are depicted as flat lines on a profile map.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spokes View Post
    Setting up your tent in a cat field is dumber.
    LOL, When i left Erwin i had a broken ankle, i had broke it on a slack pack from uncle jonneys 6 days before and at this point was still hopein it was just a bad sprain, well i went about 2 miles and the ankle was killing me, i thought about turning around, but i thought nah i would just find a spot and set up camp. well i found a SWEET little spot right by a streem, that was just big enough for my tent. that day was pretty windy and looked like it could rain at any min.... well the next day rolls around and i wake up to clear skies, and almost no wind.... so im setting there reading my kindle and a get a wiff of something.... get out and look and there is 5 or 6 little ***** pilles around!! my sweet little spot turned out to be the sweet *****ting spot by the river. lol

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tennessee Viking View Post
    Quote of the day.

    I also love some of my club's sayings on privies..."Who wants to carry in a heavy rock bar to knock down a poo pile in a privy..." and "Its a wilderness experience...deal with it."

    I never found any troubles finding a tree 50' off trail to hide behind, digging a cathole, and filling it in with dirt and covering with rocks or leaves in the TN/NC area.

    And privies usually mean more maintenance.
    You don't need a rock bar, a 2" fallen limb will do.
    For better or worse, it's not a wilderness experience. The load (as it were) of users is far too high. Let's face it, popular sections like Erwin to Damascus just gets too much use (and inexperienced use at that). Even if every hiker made a perfect cathole (and managed to hit the target) you'd sill have a mess.
    I'm with Weary--if you are going to concentrate use by building shelters and campsites, then you need to deal with concentrated waste as well. People don't poop in the middle of their hiking day, they poop at the shelter. It's just not that hard to build and maintain a privy or thunder box. If MATC can do it so can TEHCC.

    Cosmo

  16. #36
    Registered User ChinMusic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmo View Post
    You don't need a rock bar, a 2" fallen limb will do.
    For better or worse, it's not a wilderness experience. The load (as it were) of users is far too high. Let's face it, popular sections like Erwin to Damascus just gets too much use (and inexperienced use at that). Even if every hiker made a perfect cathole (and managed to hit the target) you'd sill have a mess.
    I'm with Weary--if you are going to concentrate use by building shelters and campsites, then you need to deal with concentrated waste as well. People don't poop in the middle of their hiking day, they poop at the shelter. It's just not that hard to build and maintain a privy or thunder box. If MATC can do it so can TEHCC.

    Cosmo
    this.............
    Fear ridges that are depicted as flat lines on a profile map.

  17. #37
    Registered User Wise Old Owl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Half Note View Post

    Attachment 16719


    People shouldn't complain about weight...

    Do the top half all the way around if you want something more sturdy.
    That's an interesting Idea - but I am guessing its for flinging poo, are able to dig with that?
    Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

    Woo

  18. #38
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    The thought of setting up my tent over crap is one thing I don't want to deal with
    .

    Another reason to be a hammock hanger
    Hammock Hanger by choice

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  19. #39

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    I have no idea what goes on to build a privy on the trail most of the time
    But counties, often will have sewer and sanitation laws that have to be followed.
    It is not necessarily legal to just dig a hole and let people start crapping in it. Even if that happens in lots of places.
    Laws are in place to protect water sources and prevent spread of disease.

    Im actually quite amazed that any privys exist at all. Constructing an unnapproved, uninspected waste treatement facility in what amounts to a national park sure seems like it would be difficult.

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pumba View Post
    ADA compliant? Seriously?
    My memory may be failing me, but I remember the ADA backing off a little on this. If the shelter is not accessible, then the privy doesn't have to be. But you have to remember, a lot of shelters are accessible via a dirt road of some sort. On the other hand, I find accessible privies to be a lot easier to use than the other kind, plus they aren't that much more difficult to build than a regular privy. For some reason a lot of clubs build their privies with doors that are too small even for a short person like myself - not enough leg room to close the door.

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