Tick Questions

[Odd Man Out]

I have heard that DEET is pretty nasty as well, that it can eat through certain types of clothing etc. Have you heard anything about combining the two products or is that overkill?...

What about picaridin? This is an alternative to DEET that is supposedly nearly as effective, but is odorless and will not damage synthetic fibers. Anyone know if it have been tested against ticks?

http://equipped.outdoors.org/2009/06...of-buzzer.html

[Moose2001]

IMHO, the best tick prevention is a good tick check each evening. Ticks must be attached to you for at least 24 hours before the transfer of the lyme causing material begins. If you're checking yourself every evening, you can find the ticks before they cause problems. I look at every dark spot on my body. You'll be surprised how small some of the ticks can be. I take my fingernail and scrape anything dark. If it's a tick, it will move slightly as you scrape it.

As in most things, some common sense can prevent problems.

[Winds]

What about picaridin? This is an alternative to DEET that is supposedly nearly as effective, but is odorless and will not damage synthetic fibers. Anyone know if it have been tested against ticks?

http://equipped.outdoors.org/2009/06...of-buzzer.html

Hmmm, I'm looking into this now.
What I look at specifically:
1. Chemical fact sheets (toxicity reports, environmental data, effectiveness)
2. Field use studies (both here and abroad)
3. Independent user reviews

My initial understanding:
1. Much safer to clothing and gear
2. Effectiveness to certain mosquitoes in question (which means certain insects are not affected at all)
3. What concentrations to use, and effectiveness
4. Bi-polar reviews (this might be a body chemistry issue?)
5. Reports of skin irritations are very low

My thoughts:
IF this chemical can replace DEET, that's probably a good thing.
As with DEET, what really concerns me is the concentration level coupled with the amount of re-applications necessary to be effective for strenuous hiking.

This chemical like DEET works to deter an insect from staying on you in areas treated (skin, gear, etc.). Picaridin simply masks chemical signals from your body which doesn't enable the insect to know you are food.

I'll read more into this but with at rough glance, Picaridin may be a good replacement choice to DEET.

NOTE:
Permethrin is recommended for clothing and gear, which is highly effective against ticks. Picaridin or DEET would be recommended for skin applications.

[Cozy]

Thank you so much for this info!

[stranger]

I believe the best method for avoiding Lyme Disease is prevention, if you are really concerned about it I would wear long pants and treat your shoes, socks, pants and gaiters with Pemethrin, I think it would be extremely unlikely to pick up a tick wearing pants treated with Pemethrin.

As for tick checks, ticks go for warm areas, armpits, croch, head, etc... Tick checks are highly ineffective as far as I'm concerned, I wouldn't rely on a tick check as effective unless someone is going to go over you with a fine tooth comb...being realistic, keep the damn things off you, Pemethrin is the BEST thing out there right now.

People talk about going natural, no chemicals...oh yeah, well Lyme Disease is natural...you wanna play with that!

My father had Lyme for years...I don't think twice about Pemethrin, Lyme is a nightmare if you don't catch it early.

[MuddyWaters]

Deet will melt and mar a lot of plastics, take paint off things, etc. Never had an issue on fabric, but probably not good for it.

Just treat all your clothes and hat with permethrin, including shoes and socks
Wear tight fitting compression underwear prevents access to the nether-regions
apply some kind of repellent to exposed skin on arms/legs , really doesnt matter what, they all work to some extent.

No worries

[Don H]

During last year's thru-hike I treated my clothes with Permethrin every 4 weeks. Checked for ticks every night, never saw one on me, never had a rash, still got Lyme disease. Know the symptoms and get treatment ASAP.

[stranger]

During last year's thru-hike I treated my clothes with Permethrin every 4 weeks. Checked for ticks every night, never saw one on me, never had a rash, still got Lyme disease. Know the symptoms and get treatment ASAP.

Exactly...tick checks don't work, most people who get Lyme never see the tick. Sorry to hear you got Lyme hope all is well now. How did you know and what treatment did you seek?

[Don H]

I got real sick with flu like symptoms. Weakness, aching, fever.
Took 21 days of 100mg Doxycycline. I had a weeks worth of Doxy with me, prescribed by my Dr. and had a prescription for the rest sent to the next town.

[Winds]

I got real sick with flu like symptoms. Weakness, aching, fever.
Took 21 days of 100mg Doxycycline. I had a weeks worth of Doxy with me, prescribed by my Dr. and had a prescription for the rest sent to the next town.

Don, then I take it you were fine following the meds?

[ChinMusic]

Exactly...tick checks don't work, most people who get Lyme never see the tick.

That would be my guess too. These ticks are just so damn small. If they were the size of dog ticks you would have a fighting chance.

[Migrating Bird]

I live in an area with a lot of deer ticks. I have found 3 imbedded in me this year so far. I don't think this year is worse than years past only that due to the mild winter they have been active for much longer. It is my opinion that the only safe way to remove a tick is with this http://www.otom.com/tick-removal-que...#agressertique I just removed one from my dog just now with this tool. You have to be careful as when you remove them they a still alive. I would never let anyone use tweezers to remove a tick as this just squeezes the guts into the wound, or scrape it off with a knife as the mouth parts remain in the skin. Deer ticks are small when they first attach but swell to the size of a pea when fully engorged with the hosts blood.

[Connie]

I carry both the large and small OTOM.

I do not walk thru tall grass.

I avoid overhanging brush because deer and other large animals give ticks a ride up into branches like that.

I really appreciate the high quality information in this thread about using chemicals, although I personally do not use chemicals except the time I wore flea and tick collars at my ankles over my pants.

I am aware about how really bad it is to contract Lyme's Disease and Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever from ticks. It is the first I heard about that disease mentioned from "The Lone Star" tick in Central Virginia. That ranks right up there with really bad disease.

I have never had a tick. I wear loose-fit bicycle tights, elastic gaiters (like simBLISSity if biting flys), long sleeves, mock turtleneck shirts, and hats that cover my neck if I am in tick country in tick season.

I also have sensitive skin sensation, so much so, I felt a leech touch me in the water, once, in Alabama. I brushed it off. The leech did not get a chance to attach.

I think the clothing I choose to wear for hiking, as well as, avoiding high risk helps.

[lostinfflood]

Woods ticks are bad in NJ now. Did an hour hike yesterday I had 10 crawling on me. So far, for whatever reason, deer ticks have not been real bad yet. Two years ago my dog presented with anaplasmosis. This is caused by the bacterium Anaplasma phagocytophilum which is carried by the deer tick. People ask me if I'm concerned about bears when I hike. I tell them I'm mored concerned with deer ticks.

[Old Hillwalker]

Until I became a legal nomad a year or so ago I worked as an AT Corridor Monitor and Monitor Coordinator for about five years. Consequently I spent several days a week bushwhacking along beside the trail treadway inspecting and maintaining the survey lines for the AT Corridor in NH and VT. During that time I always treated my clothing with Permathrin every four weeks or so. Many times while walking through high grass and weeds I wiould see ticks clinging to grass tips waving their front legs in what is called "questing behavior", but never had any attach themselves to my clothing during my travels.On occasion I would not wear my treated clothing, and then would usually find one or two on my trousers after walking through swampy areas.My biggest problem was, since I am a widower and live alone, self-checking for ticks. Even at home with a dressing mirror it is nearly impossible to identify and remove an embedded tick. On the trail alone it is impossible to examine the reverse side of the human coin.So, here is my testimony that Permethrin does indeed work. Now, for long term effects on the body; at 72 I don't give a hoot.

[Greystroke]

Just finished a 105 mile hike from Eckville Shelter (PA) to High Point State Park NJ. Never seen so many ticks. They are everywhere, but some places are worse than others. There's a 2 mile stretch of grassy trail immediately north of Lehigh Gap that is heavily infested. Picked 28 ticks off my boots and lower legs as I passed through there. Picked off another couple of dozen sporadically during the rest of the hike, including two on the back of my neck. Fortunately, I got them all before they latched on.

I avoid putting chemicals on my skin and used frequent inspections to thwart them.

[cowpoke]

Something to try that has worked every time for me is to use dish soap and a cotton ball.....put the dish soap on the cotton ball and place on tick on your body......let stay for about 20 seconds or so...tick will back out and get stuck in cotton....has worked every time. I always carry a small plastic bottle of dish soap....about same size as small bottle of hand sanitizer...and some cotton balls.....plus I always soak my clothes in permethrin...cheers.

[ChinMusic]

Something to try that has worked every time for me is to use dish soap and a cotton ball.....put the dish soap on the cotton ball and place on tick on your body......let stay for about 20 seconds or so...tick will back out and get stuck in cotton....has worked every time.

This is NOT a recommended method and has been addressed to the CDC. I am not telling you not to do it. That is your choice. I am only posting so that others do not think this is a recommended method.

[Speer Carrier]

Slight correction: Permethrin is considered safe for humans and dogs. It is highly toxic to cats and fish. I would love it if I could use the stuff, but a lot vets say that permethrin shouldn't be anywhere in a household that has cats.

I think the label on the permethrin says it's only toxic to cats in it's wet state, but not after it has dried on one's clothes. Can anyone verify that?

[ChinMusic]

I think the label on the permethrin says it's only toxic to cats in it's wet state, but not after it has dried on one's clothes. Can anyone verify that?

Yes, you are correct. In the dry state cats are safe.