Convince me to buy a tarp!

[q-tip]

I used a Tarptent Contrail on my AT 1/2 hike and bought a Six Moons Wild Oasis for my Colorado Trail Thru hike starting in July. In a three day rain storm testing it on the AT in NY, the condensation was so bad my down sleeping bag got soaked. Hence, back to the Contrail. I just can't see taking the chance of getting soaked in a 35 d rainstorm in the mountains of Colorado. But the good news I will probably use it on any of my East Coast hikes going forward. It is all about tradeoffs....

[Connie]

A typical A-frame tarp configuration is much like a pup tent. I cannot stand spending any time in a pup tent or a tube tent for that matter. It is a miserable way to hike and camp, as far as I am concerned.

If you are going to have a tarp, I recommend a catenary-cut tarp at least with one end that may be pitched higher.

The catenary-cut tarp may be pitched taut. A straight-cut tarp will have deep wrinkles along the lines of stress where pulled out that will hold the rain, if not channel rain to the ground. That is why I prefer a catenary-cut tarp.

A beak is good, if you want enclosure. I don't.

For me, the tarp is best because it is not enclosed.

The small tents are too confining for my taste, and, miserable if stuck in the rain.

The more spacious tents are usually much heavier than a spacious tarp, and, if you touch the sides or top of the tent inside the rain will wick thru the material getting you and your gear wet.

Of course, a tarp will wick if you touch the sides or top inside. However, every tarp I have had provides more room inside than a lightweight tent.

I can pitch a tarp in a number of configurations. The flying diamond, for example, is a fast-pitch to get out of the rain. 1. Secure one end to a tree, 2. get under, 3. stake out the other corners from the inside.

I can do that with my GoLite Shangri-La 3 "tent" which is most like a tarp. I like it.

But my Oware AsymTarp1 is my favorite. It pitches up and out to the air with the most practical protection from rain as far as I am concerned. I especially like the pitch because I rig a reflective surface on one side or on one side and the end to reflect heat from a small fire.

Floorless works for me. The bug bivy keeps flying insects and crawling critters away from my bed.

I can tie-up one end to keep the bug net off my face. If biting flying insects are thick, I use a no-see-um headnet over a baseball hat outside the bug bivy. I wear long-sleeves and loose-fitting tights for ticks, anyway, so if I add gloves I am protected.

Floorless works for me. I especially like not having a tent floor because I prefer to take off and put on my boots sitting on a ground sheet and bedding in one part of my shelter. I don't like dripping clothing on my sleeping gear, either. That is why the floorless area serves me well.

I put my boots in plastic grocery bags inside my bivy at the corners to keep my bivy pulled out away from my sleeping quilt. I also put my pack inside the bivy at the foot.

If I want to hammock, the tarp will serve. My gathered-end hammock will also serve as a kitchen tarp for camping more than overnight.

If I install a rubberized waterproof zipper and wear a wide-brimmed hat, my tarp can be a poncho.

With the Oware AsymTarp1, Ti-Goat Bug Bivy, Gossamer Gear polycro ground cloth and an 800-fill or 900-fill sleeping quilt or half bag, I have all the room for the food and food preparation I need with only a 40-liter backpack.

I can't do that with any tent I have had, not even the GoLite Shangri-La 3 because the plastic hoops for the three vents take up too much space.

I use a ridgeline under the tarp or the poles to hang gear.

What is not to like about a tarp?

I was considering fixed length (130 cm) poles, but am now worried they may not work for tarping.

Tarps may be rigged with the poles outside the tarp.

Fixed length trekking poles will also work well if used to rig a tarp you know you like.

I would work that out, first, by taping painter's drop cloth plastic to fashion the tarp design to be sure.

I prefer adjustable trekking poles so I can pitch the tarp close to the ground or high.

[Miner]

Another Tarp Q. Assuming I use trekking poles, it looks from the pictures that they are set rather low to the ground for an A-frame type tarp set up. Are adjustable poles necessary. I was considering fixed length (130 cm) poles, but am now worried they may not work for tarping.

They can work. Instead of putting your poles under the tarp's ridgeline you place them next to the tarp ends. Run your line from the end of the tarp to someplace on your poles that won't allow the line to slide and wrap it around a few times and then run the line to your stake on the ground. For a tarp end pitched high, you usually can just run the line to the basket area of the pole (assuming the handle is the part on the ground). For a tarp end pitched low, you can wrap some duct tape around the pole a few times in a convient spot and wrap your guy line around the top of that.

Silnylon sags when wet (one of the reasons I like cuben fiber as it doesn't sag) so if in heavy rain, some people want to readjust their guylines to tigthen the tarp up due to wind. Instead of going out in the rain and moving the stakes around, there is a better way. You put your poles upside down so the handle part is facing down and the pole tips are pointing up. You initially set the tarp up so that you pole has a bit of angle between the top and the ground rather then being straight up. As your tarp sags, you reach out with your hand and move the pole bottom towards you so that its more upright which tightens the tarp pitch up.

[Odd Man Out]

They can work. ... As your tarp sags, you reach out with your hand and move the pole bottom towards you so that its more upright which tightens the tarp pitch up.

Good tips, thanks. Yes, I did see pics of the "outside pole" pitch on some of the manufacture's web sites.

[Mountain Mike]

In many places you don't need poles. I never did on AT. Or if I did I could find a suitible branch nearby.

[Feral Bill]

Connie mentions the flying diamond configuration. It's my standard rig with a flat 8x10 tarp. A tree or such gives you a high point. You 130cm poles would give you some extra space and less wrinkling. Give it a try and you'll see how, faster than I can explain it. You can try out all of this with a cheap black plastic tarp from the hardware store, with add on grommets, duct tape, or loops around small pebbles tucked in the sheeting as fasteners. Worst case, you're out <$10. Convinced?

[Mountain Mike]

Best part of tarp is freedom. You can set it up where you want where tents won't work. End of a long day & there is a perfect spot to lay down between two bushes/rocks where a tent wont work, a tarp can.

[JJJ]

Great Post, Connie.

[Wags]

trekking poles are for the tarp awning! heheh.

[English Stu]

On my three AT section hikes I have used a Golite Cave tarp, a HS TT Contrail and a HS TT Moment.There is no doubt a tarp is very versatile I also used the Cave for 400mls on the GR5 in the European Alps Geneva to Nice-fairly high up,odd snow. However I like the Moment and disagree about a smaller space needed for a tarp. The Moment has a smaller footprint than most tarps especially when the guyline area is added in; it has just two stakes, quick to set up. I also stealth camp in the UK and often think I would never get my tarp in this area.The Moment is better to sit in than the Contrail and the Tarp unless you set that up really high. No issues with bugs and crawlers,although you cannot set it up over rocks etc. My Moment has been modded so you can unzip the whole front to increase the good tarp experience of being able to see out a lot.I accept the weight penalty for the extras provided by the Moment.

[Odd Man Out]

Thanks All. You are doing a fine job of educating me on the tarp thing.

My most recent thoughts have centered around keeping my sleeping area dry. On some of the manufacturer's web sites, I have read about water proof (or water repellent) bivys for tarp sleepers to keep their bags dry from rain that may blow into an open tarp, especially for those using a minimalist shelter. This might be my biggest fear. We all know that keeping your bag dry is job#1. I think I would be happier using a ground sheet/bug bivy for protection (such as the MLD Bug Bivy) and not have to rely on a waterproof bivy to keep dry. Is this reasonable? If so, how large of a tarp is recommended (assuming 3-season AT hiking)? Would something the size of the MLD Grace Tarp be adequate (this seems to be one common size). Or would a larger 8x10 tarp be safer (another size I see mentioned often).

THANKS!

[rocketsocks]

I was following the tarp thread in the Straight Forward forum. I thought I would take my follow-up question here so as to not hijack the other tread and get my hand slapped by the very nice moderators.

I have been shopping for a tent, but I would really like someone to convince me to try a tarp for extended three-season US hiking. I am willing to recognize that so many happy campers can't be wrong. But this posts brings up my two biggest questions/concerns. Once you add the bug net and ground cover (or bivy), it seems I get a sleep system that isn't substantially different, lighter, or cheaper than an ultralight tent, but possibly more cramped (assuming I am in the bug net or bivy) and complicated (three separate parts rather than one integrated piece of gear). Also, where do you store your gear when it's raining? Does you ground sheet have room for your bag and pack?

Odd Man Out,I too have asked myself this very question,and have come to the conclusion that with tents coming in at a meager 24oz.(for an affordable one,much lighter for a much more expensive one)I see no reason to not go with a tent that suits all my needs,No rain,No wind,No bugs.With each of those same component parts,I'd always have to be fiddle fudge-in around as apposed to just pitching and crawling in,although a hammock is not out of the question either,but thats a whole nother thread,so as not to Hi-jak your thread there by giving you the same respect as you gave when starting this one,will put that topic on the back burner.peace

[Odd Man Out]

Odd Man Out,I too have asked myself this very question,and have come to the conclusion that with tents coming in at a meager 24oz.(for an affordable one,much lighter for a much more expensive one)I see no reason to not go with a tent that suits all my needs,No rain,No wind,No bugs.With each of those same component parts,I'd always have to be fiddle fudge-in around as apposed to just pitching and crawling in,although a hammock is not out of the question either,but thats a whole nother thread,so as not to Hi-jak your thread there by giving you the same respect as you gave when starting this one,will put that topic on the back burner.peace

Thanks - If all this convincing isn't convincing enough for me, I'll probably be back shopping for tents!

[sbhikes]

I don't think tarps are worth it as far as weight savings. Get one if you think it will be a fun experience. Otherwise a single-wall ultralight tent like the Gossamer Gear One will give you bug protection, rain protection and lots of room without having to fuss with a separate bug net and bivy sack. Plus simplicity: just toss in your tent and you're ready for anything.

[Miner]

We all know that keeping your bag dry is job#1. I think I would be happier using a ground sheet/bug bivy for protection (such as the MLD Bug Bivy) and not have to rely on a waterproof bivy to keep dry. Is this reasonable? If so, how large of a tarp is recommended (assuming 3-season AT hiking)? Would something the size of the MLD Grace Tarp be adequate (this seems to be one common size). Or would a larger 8x10 tarp be safer (another size I see mentioned often).

I use a MLD Grace Solo Tarp and either with nothing, a MLD bug bivy or a MLD Superbivy depending on the time of year and where I'll be traveling. While I can stay dry in wind blown weather without a bivy, doing so means staking the tarp lower down and being more cramped than taking a bivy. But even with a bivy, I'm still carrying less than a pound including stakes and cord (24 oz seems heavy to me after being sub-1pound for 6+ years ). But as I mentioned, for me the bivy is the main part of the shelter since I use it almost all the time while the tarp is used rarely for bad weather. If you desire to tarp without a bivy and still feel like you have room under the tarp when it rains, than I would recommend going with a larger tarp than the Grace Solo Tarp. The Grace Duo tarp or the Gossemer Gear SpinTwin Tarp would be a better match and would give you plenty of protection. You may also consider a shaped tarp like MLD's Cricket Tarp or Trailstar shelter and Z-packs Hexamid Shelter which offer good protection.

[Odd Man Out]

... If you desire to tarp without a bivy and still feel like you have room under the tarp when it rains, than I would recommend going with a larger tarp than the Grace Solo Tarp. The Grace Duo tarp or the Gossemer Gear SpinTwin Tarp would be a better match and would give you plenty of protection. You may also consider a shaped tarp like MLD's Cricket Tarp or Trailstar shelter and Z-packs Hexamid Shelter which offer good protection.

Thanks - I was just checking those. The Grace Duo is slightly larger than the SpinTwin and comes in silnylon and cuben. So among the three there are multiple choices of size, weight and price. I have looked at the shaped tarps you mentioned. I guess the pyramid style of these seem to defeat the openness of the tarp. If I went this way, I would probably just opt for the tent equivalent of these. It seems that moisture is always the issue. In a single wall tent (or shaped tarp), it is condensation. In a minimal tarp, it is rain blowing in from perimeter. In a bivy, it is trapped perspiration. A duo tarp for solo use is looking attractive for me.

[Connie]

I haven't experienced trapped perspiration in a bivy. Of course, I select bivy's with a waterproof bottom and combination breatheable and mosquito mesh top.

Keeping your sleeping bag dry includes not sweating inside your sleeping bag.

I never use a top and bottom waterproof bivy.

The inconvenience, I experience, is drying the tent to pack it up. It must not be mildewed. It is ruined then, unless you like mildew.

In contrast, I can shake off a tarp then shove it in the big mesh pocket outside on the back of my pack.

If you pack doesn't have a big mesh pocket on the outside back of the pack, you can add one as the big mesh pocket is also sold separately.

I have a no-see-um mosquito head net, much like that made by MLD, I wear over a baseball hat. If there is no better campsite than where there are biting insects (ridges are better) I wear gloves. I always have long sleeve shirts and long leg pants. The pant shave elastic at the ankles or zippers at the ankles. If really nasty biting insects are about, I wear short elastic gaiters as well. (Some black flys can bite thru socks.)

Since I don't want to hide inside a bug proof tent, I do this instead.

I need to be up and about for hiking and campsite chores. I can't hide in a tent.

[Smooth & Wasabi]

Fixed length are fine for tarping. As pointed out earlier I too don't use a tarp soley for the weight. I like the ventilation and most of all I like setting it up and getting out of the rain without exposing my sleeping area to rain (unlike many tents) and taking it down last after everything else is packed. 15 years ago my only shelter was a mid and if I had to get rid of all but one now I'd stick with the design but in moder materials. Most of the benefits of the tarp (less ventilated) but more protection, 4 season, and modular. Take a net inner, breathable bivy, or groundsheet depending on conditions.

[Miner]

Oh, I just remembered an advantage to tarping that many don't consider. Its possible to do your business under it when its raining as you pack up in the morning, providing it isn't an established campsite.

[Odd Man Out]

...Keeping your sleeping bag dry includes not sweating inside your sleeping bag...The inconvenience, I experience, is drying the tent to pack it up. It must not be mildewed. It is ruined then, unless you like mildew. In contrast, I can shake off a tarp then shove it in the big mesh pocket outside on the back of my pack....I have a no-see-um mosquito head net, much like that made by MLD, I wear over a baseball hat. If there is no better campsite than where there are biting insects (ridges are better) I wear gloves. I always have long sleeve shirts and long leg pants. The pant shave elastic at the ankles or zippers at the ankles. If really nasty biting insects are about, I wear short elastic gaiters as well. (Some black flys can bite thru socks.)...

I hope to get a quilt as I have tended to use a bag unzipped for years, mainly to keep from perspiring in the bag. I learned this from my dad. When going to bed I lie on top of my bag until I start to get a bit chilled, and only then do I get in the bag. On a warm night I might fall asleep on top of the bag and wake up in the middle of the night cold. I just pull the opened bag over me and I warm up very quickly (no perspiration problem). Packing the tarp on the outside is also a great idea. I think I need to consider my bug strategy a little more. Never been a fan of gaiters, but I am partial to long sleeves and pants. I know all about flies biting through socks!

Fixed length are fine for tarping. As pointed out earlier I too don't use a tarp soley for the weight. I like the ventilation and most of all I like setting it up and getting out of the rain without exposing my sleeping area to rain (unlike many tents) and taking it down last after everything else is packed.

Agreed - this isn't just about weight! The idea of being able to pack the tarp last is also a good point.

Oh, I just remembered an advantage to tarping that many don't consider. Its possible to do your business under it when its raining as you pack up in the morning, providing it isn't an established campsite.

Not something I had thought of. I would probably use dispersed camping when possible so this could be a big help. Thanks!