Convince me to buy a tarp!

[Odd Man Out]

I was following the tarp thread in the Straight Forward forum. I thought I would take my follow-up question here so as to not hijack the other tread and get my hand slapped by the very nice moderators.

I have been shopping for a tent, but I would really like someone to convince me to try a tarp for extended three-season US hiking. I am willing to recognize that so many happy campers can't be wrong. But this posts brings up my two biggest questions/concerns. Once you add the bug net and ground cover (or bivy), it seems I get a sleep system that isn't substantially different, lighter, or cheaper than an ultralight tent, but possibly more cramped (assuming I am in the bug net or bivy) and complicated (three separate parts rather than one integrated piece of gear). Also, where do you store your gear when it's raining? Does you ground sheet have room for your bag and pack?

[jimmyjam]

If you can sew or know someone who does- check out the Bilgy tent from www.questoutfitters.com. I made one and really like it- it's a tarp with the net tent permanently attached. I think it's the best of both worlds. My one man version weighs in at 22 oz with guy lines and stuff sack.

[Feral Bill]

I was following the tarp thread in the Straight Forward forum. I thought I would take my follow-up question here so as to not hijack the other tread and get my hand slapped by the very nice moderators.

I have been shopping for a tent, but I would really like someone to convince me to try a tarp for extended three-season US hiking. I am willing to recognize that so many happy campers can't be wrong. But their needs and wants can differ from yours But this posts brings up my two biggest questions/concerns. Once you add the bug net and ground cover (or bivy), it seems I get a sleep system that isn't substantially different, lighter, or cheaper than an ultralight tent, but possibly more cramped (assuming I am in the bug net or bivy) I find they sleeping with a bug net under atarp is very airy and spacious and complicated (three separate parts rather than one integrated piece of gear). AKA versitile (leave the net home when not needed) Also, where do you store your gear when it's raining? Acres of space, Does you ground sheet have room for your bag and pack? Your choice, I like a largish ground sheet.

........................

[QiWiz]

For years I used a Gatewood Cape (11 oz), adding a NetTent (8 oz) inside in bug season. With a polychro ground sheet (1.6 oz) and 6 ti skewer stakes (1.2 oz), my shelter weight was 13.8 oz in non-bug season and 21.8 oz in bug season. I've now gone to a similarly shaped cuben shelter with built in netting, the Zpacks Hexamid with beak (9.8 oz). With a polychro ground sheet and 8 skewer stakes, I'm now at a total weight of 13 oz, year round, with full bug protection. I would be hard pressed to match this in a tent. I've got hundreds of trail miles and months of trail nights in four seasons using these two systems, which I recommend to anyone to try (other than those over 6 feet tall, who might need a bit more length in their shelter). Setting either of these up is simple and quick, especially the Hexamid. I am never be the last one ready to hit the trail.

[1azarus]

For years I used a Gatewood Cape (11 oz), adding a NetTent (8 oz) inside in bug season. With a polychro ground sheet (1.6 oz) and 6 ti skewer stakes (1.2 oz), my shelter weight was 13.8 oz in non-bug season and 21.8 oz in bug season. I've now gone to a similarly shaped cuben shelter with built in netting, the Zpacks Hexamid with beak (9.8 oz). With a polychro ground sheet and 8 skewer stakes, I'm now at a total weight of 13 oz, year round, with full bug protection. I would be hard pressed to match this in a tent. I've got hundreds of trail miles and months of trail nights in four seasons using these two systems, which I recommend to anyone to try (other than those over 6 feet tall, who might need a bit more length in their shelter). Setting either of these up is simple and quick, especially the Hexamid. I am never be the last one ready to hit the trail.

you are now my ground dwelling hero!

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

[Odd Man Out]

... I've now gone to a similarly shaped cuben shelter with built in netting, the Zpacks Hexamid with beak (9.8 oz). With a polychro ground sheet and 8 skewer stakes, I'm now at a total weight of 13 oz, year round, with full bug protection...

I've considered the Hexamid (maybe the Solo+). I am not over 6' tall, but I'm not under 6' either. Of course one could call that a tent (ZPacks does on their web site), but of the "tarp-tent" products, this one is on the tarp end of the spectrum, I guess.

[Franco]

recently I shot a video addressing just that question.
Is the weight saving worth for me ?
For me it isn't , but here is the long and boring video to explain why...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=my5Mj...1&feature=plcp
Franco

[dla]

I was following the tarp thread in the Straight Forward forum. I thought I would take my follow-up question here so as to not hijack the other tread and get my hand slapped by the very nice moderators.

I have been shopping for a tent, but I would really like someone to convince me to try a tarp for extended three-season US hiking. I am willing to recognize that so many happy campers can't be wrong. But this posts brings up my two biggest questions/concerns. Once you add the bug net and ground cover (or bivy), it seems I get a sleep system that isn't substantially different, lighter, or cheaper than an ultralight tent, but possibly more cramped (assuming I am in the bug net or bivy) and complicated (three separate parts rather than one integrated piece of gear). Also, where do you store your gear when it's raining? Does you ground sheet have room for your bag and pack?

The following is horrible looking tarp setup - "horrible" only because it just got hammered by a mountain storm at 8000' (there's just too many pretty tarp pictures anyway). This tarp, the Golite Lair 2, which is no longer made, had one end closed off and I attached bug netting to the front with paper clips. I rode out a few storms in this and I can say it was a very good tarp. Plenty of room for me and 3 labs, or two people and gear. Easier than a regular tarp to pitch. Approximate equivalent space to an 8'x10' tarp. Gave it to my son when I went to a hammock.

I've also tarped using the A16 bug bivy. It's a good bug net but the netting will stick to poly-pro tops and tangle you up if you toss and turn.

I now have a nice 10'x11' sil-nylon tarp for my hammock, in case I ever have the need to go to the ground.

My backpack was usually my pillow.

The tarp tent series are the only "tents" I might consider instead of a tarp for 3-season. That's just my opinion. If I was sleeping someplace with scorpions and snakes I might think differently

Lookup and learn the "Ray-Way" of pitching a tarp as it will save you some time.

[dla]

The following is horrible looking tarp setup - "horrible" only because it just got hammered by a mountain storm at 8000' (there's just too many pretty tarp pictures anyway). This tarp, the Golite Lair 2, which is no longer made, had one end closed off and I attached bug netting to the front with paper clips. I rode out a few storms in this and I can say it was a very good tarp. Plenty of room for me and 3 labs, or two people and gear. Easier than a regular tarp to pitch. Approximate equivalent space to an 8'x10' tarp. Gave it to my son when I went to a hammock.

I've also tarped using the A16 bug bivy. It's a good bug net but the netting will stick to poly-pro tops and tangle you up if you toss and turn.

I now have a nice 10'x11' sil-nylon tarp for my hammock, in case I ever have the need to go to the ground.

My backpack was usually my pillow.

The tarp tent series are the only "tents" I might consider instead of a tarp for 3-season. That's just my opinion. If I was sleeping someplace with scorpions and snakes I might think differently

Lookup and learn the "Ray-Way" of pitching a tarp as it will save you some time.

soggy.JPG

Forgot the picture.

[Malto]

I'm not sure I would use a tarp strictly for the weight savings because there are now options getting close or even to the 1 lb weight of a bivy and tarp. But there is a very big benefit to this setup especially if you hike is low rain areas such as the Sierra, you can chose to use the bivy only. This is the main reason I went to tarp/bivy, the opportunity to cut down and setup and tear down.

I find that a lightweight bivy is a great Parton a UL system because it removes the need for a ground cloth, allows a draft free usage of a quilt, provides bug protection and some protection from blowing mist.

One other reason you may like a tarp is the feeling that you're more in the open. you can see out all sides and it feels like you are part of the environment vs in a man made shelter.

Having said all this, I just moved to PA and it will be interesting to see if my love affair continues in the wetter environments of the central and northern AT.

[fiddlehead]

I use an Integral Design "sil-shelter" which is basically a tarp but can be fully closed off in a big storm (windy )
Here's a picture of me "stealth camping" on the CDT (one tent stake "on the trail") DCP01432-1.jpg

So, a few advantages of this type of shelter over a tent not mentioned above:
1/ can pee without getting out of your bag (just roll over to the very edge (guys only))
2/ can set up shelter over a rock, or cactus or, like I did in Nepal one time: in the middle of a pot field and used the plants as my mattress that night)
3/ Much more "Leave No Trace" than a tent. When you leave in the morning, you can only see where your body actually laid, not the whole tent imprint.

[JJJ]

You'll need it for when you start to hammock camp.

[Miner]

Tarping is more of a system in which you use only what you need. Many of us like just sleeping outside or in a lightweight water resistant bivy sack and only use the tarp for bad weather. So often it isn't used (used only 9 times on my PCT thru-hike). Camp setup is thus quicker (with a bivy sack, stuff sleeping bag and pad into bivy sack and throw on ground). Bivy sack is also part of sleep system since it adds warmth, provides wind protection, and can double as a lightweight sleeping bag when its too hot for your sleeping bag. Sleeping without the tarp allows using a very small camp spot. Even with the tarp, you can sleep in a spot smaller then a tent since the sides can overlap rocks, logs, or bushes. You may need bug protection which is why I use a bivy sack, but you can somtimes just use a headnet over a baseball cap if your sleeping bag is cinched up tight.

When unpacking a wet tent, every surface inside is wet and has to be dried off before you get in. Not an issue with a tarp. Condensation isn't really an issue either. Then there is the whole visibility and feeling like you are one with nature rather then isolated from it inside a tent.

Tarping does require more skill to stay dry in bad weather (but is completely doable) and camp sites have to be more carefully picked since no bathtube floor to deal with pooling water.

If comes down to the person. Some people love them but others never will. If you want to try it, get a cheap tarp and see if you like it first before spending any significant money.

[MuddyWaters]

Shaped tarps are the best of both worlds.

Shaped tarps with bug netting are especially nice.

[Tinker]

Buy a tarp.

Buy a tarp with bug netting.

Buy a tarp with a floor.

Oh, I guess that's a single walled tent .

(Or a hammock ssssssssshhhhhhh.....................). I've had small streams flowing underneath and small ponds forming - no wet floor to worry about (but my boots - it was a number of years ago - nearly floated away ).

[Mountain Mike]

It's another piece of cool gear! If you have only one tent/shelter option, one sleeping bag, pack, stove, etc imagine how boaring planning a trip would be. When you have a bokoo amount you have to think about conditions you will hit & what will work best. OK it may be a lame reason but it's my justification for the closet full of outdoor gear in my spare bedroom. Besides, in those times when I can't get out hiking it helps me to just think/dream & plan about them.

[Odd Man Out]

... Many of us like just sleeping outside or in a lightweight water resistant bivy sack and only use the tarp for bad weather. So often it isn't used (used only 9 times on my PCT thru-hike). Camp setup is thus quicker (with a bivy sack, stuff sleeping bag and pad into bivy sack and throw on ground). Bivy sack is also part of sleep system since it adds warmth, provides wind protection, and can double as a lightweight sleeping bag when its too hot for your sleeping bag. Sleeping without the tarp allows using a very small camp spot. Even with the tarp, you can sleep in a spot smaller then a tent since the sides can overlap rocks, logs, or bushes. You may need bug protection which is why I use a bivy sack, but you can somtimes just use a headnet over a baseball cap if your sleeping bag is cinched up tight....

Never shopped bivy sacks. Can you point me to a few of your favorites?

[Miner]

Never shopped bivy sacks. Can you point me to a few of your favorites?

My current bivy sack is by MLD though I use to use a cheaper one from Titanium Goat. The following make <8oz bivy sacks. I'm sure theres more out there.

Mountain Laurel Designs
Titanium Goat
Oware
Six Moon Designs

[Odd Man Out]

My current bivy sack is by MLD though I use to use a cheaper one from Titanium Goat. The following make <8oz bivy sacks. I'm sure theres more out there.

Mountain Laurel Designs
Titanium Goat
Oware
Six Moon Designs

Thanks - The pictures of the bug bivy on the MLD site are great. I was thinking they would be more like a coffin.

[Odd Man Out]

Another Tarp Q. Assuming I use trekking poles, it looks from the pictures that they are set rather low to the ground for an A-frame type tarp set up. Are adjustable poles necessary. I was considering fixed length (130 cm) poles, but am now worried they may not work for tarping.