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  1. #21
    Registered User C-Stepper's Avatar
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    FYI, my post was more to generate discussion as to why it is different for women than men to solo hike, not a diatribe on my marriage/family, as both are in order as much as a marriage/family can be (sorry, I may have been unclear to some readers. It was not my intention to indicate my husband is domineering or the like, as one poster sort of took it...Jim has actually made a valiant attempt to be very supportive of his very "not interested in normal girl stuff" wife and he is a great husband and dad...all other women should be jealous!). My husband's comments didn't instigate this post, as that happened many months back. What started me thinking about this issue was yet another woman posting on the backpacker forums that her FEMALE hiking friends scared her into posting a question about the safety of her hiking solo.

    But, I've noticed that I've NEVER seen a man post something like "all my buddies think I'm crazy for going alone and that I need a partner" kinda thing. Because I don't see men posting the same "concerns", I don't really buy the buddy system thing, but I do think the buddy system has its place, depending on where and what season you are hiking. This issue may lead to another type of discussion, maybe not this one (for now).

    Maybe both BA Turtle and I are weirdos not to be "scared"...but, with her at my side, and a name that includes the words "bad ass" I think we'll be OK!

    I'll have to look over the two links later...I'm at work and won't have a chance to read the articles for a couple of hours, but, from what Wookie wrote, there may be some good stuff there!

  2. #22
    Addicted Hiker and Donating Member Hammock Hanger's Avatar
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    I did my first solo hike on the AT as post rape "therapy". The rape had been in my younger days, in a busy part of town, and I wasn't alone. -- Years later when my husband and I would section hike and I would see a solo male it would really get me angered that HE could hike alone but I couldn't. My husband said I could if I wanted to but I said yeah if I wanted to be in constant fear of rape. In reality it was just the fear and anger from having been rape coming out.

    So, one brave year I just decided to deal with the issue and go, solo. I had the time of my life. Unfortunately the down side to that was, an addict was born and my husband lost a hiking partner as I move on to another level of long distance hiking without him.

    Does he worry about me, of course. He knows, however, that I use good judgement. Does he miss me, terribly and I him. Just because we are married does not mean we have to do everything together. He has the "Grateful Dead" and I have the "AT".

    As for men on the trail... I now have numerous Big Brothers. Ninety nine percent of the guys I met out on the trail were just great, super great actually. Since my rape I had had very low respect for the male population over all. I thought that their brains were located midway between the head and the feet! After hiking I found that men really aren't so bad and I shouldn't be judging the whole lot by the bad actions of a few.

    So hike solo, use common sense, hope your husband will understand. (BTW, like BAT said take him out on the trail with you so he can see you in your element and maybe he will understand more. My husband use to hike with me a lot so he knows I know my stuff out there, it gives him a comfort level.)

    Just some ramblings from me.... SUe/Hammock Hanger
    Hammock Hanger -- Life is my journey and I'm surely not rushing to the "summit"...:D

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  3. #23
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    It seems to me there are two parts to the issue brought up here. First, is hiking alone safe and second, why the difference in standards based on gender. As for the first, I always hike alone for three reasons: I enjoy the solitude of not having to talk all day, no one can put up with my personality for long stretches, and after a few days hiking no one can put up with my odor very long. As for the gender issue, I would think that is fairly obvious. There are many things a woman cant do at the same level as a man. A woman cant seem to hit the toilet seat while a man will splatter it with great skill. When a woman cant find her way alone in a car she will do things like ask directions or check a map while a man will keep going and eventually hope to get there. These are just a couple of examples. Is it any wonder that us big strong guys feel the need to watch after and protect those poor defenseless ladies? On a serious note, even at my advanced years my kids still insist I check in whenever I reach a town and that I carry a cell phone. I have encountered some strange folks on the trail and once or twice moved on because I wasnt certain of the mental stability of someone. I have heard stories from other hikers about scary rides to town and some where the ride offers were declined because of the looks of the driver. You never know whats out there, and regardless of gender, sometimes its good to have a hiking buddy.

  4. #24

    Default Men Are In Greater Risk of Danger

    Ok, ready your wit and threats of retribution as I tell you what you do not want to hear:
    As a culture we care more about women as victims than we do about men as victims. I am not just claiming this, rather peer reviewed research bears this out. Here is the best short proof:
    A study of the 7 major leading Canadian newspapers' front pages (over 7,000 front pages analyzed) found that women were reported to be the vicitims of crime at a rate of 21 to 1 for each man. This study was replicated in Israel and the same conclusion was reached: women are more likely to be reported as victims of violent crime even though men are 3 times more likely to be a victim of a violent crime.
    A pleathora of studies since 1975 have continued to contradict our cultural viewpoint that women are the ones who are in the greatest danger:
    <!--StartFragment -->When the first scientific nationwide sample was conducted in 1975 — by Suzanne Steinmetz, Murray Straus and Richard Gelles<SUP class=Superscript> 11</SUP> the researchers could hardly believe their results. The sexes appeared to batter each other about equally. Dozens of questions arose ("Don't women batter only in self-defense?"; "Aren't women hurt more?"). Over a hundred researchers during the next quarter century double-checked via their own studies. About half of these researchers were women, and most of the women who were academics were feminists. Most expected to disprove the Steinmetz, Straus, and Gelles findings.
    To their credit, despite their assumptions that men were the abusers, every domestic violence survey done of both sexes over the next quarter century in the U.S. Canada, England, New Zealand and Australia — more than 50 of which are annotated in the Appendix — found one of two things: Women and men batter each other about equally, or women batter men more. In addition, almost all studies found women were more likely to initiate violence, and much more likely to inflict the severe violence. Women themselves acknowledged they are more likely to be violent and to be the initiators of violence. Finally, women were more likely to engage in severe violence that was not reciprocated. The larger and better-designed the study, the more likely the finding that women were significantly more violent.
    Beyond human dangers, keep in mind that men are more likely to be attacked by bears (over twice as likely in parks where both men and women frequent in like numbers).

    There are many books which attempt to explain the discrepancies between the cultural focus on females as victims and the reality that men are the greater number of victims. I am going to end this challenging post with a statistic that will force one to consider how deep this bias goes; this is something that was explained to me in a woman's studies class that blew my mind when I first heard it. It attacked my own prejudice against men. I share this with you in the interest of creating discussion.
    First, I am going to tell you that more men are raped each year in the US than are women. Your gut reaction is, "no, that can not be true." Turns out that it is.
    <!--StartFragment --> In fact, in the USA, there are far more male rapes every day in prisons alone than there are rapes of all females in the USA.
    In class when this was pointed out someone said, "yea, but they are in prison, so that is not the same." To which the female professor asked of the questioner, "so, you justify rape in certain contexts?".

    I don't care who you are, violence is something to fear and something that should not be justified. As a women, keep in mind that you are much less likely to be a victim of a violent crime than is a man. I am prepared to defend this position and expect it to be attacked: the bias to ignore men as victims is deep and the bias is well documented. I suggest for further readings to check out Christina Hoff Sommers, Who Stole Feminism?
    -----
    Ready, aim, return fire!



  5. #25
    Getting out as much as I can..which is never enough. :) Mags's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The#Is10
    But, I've noticed that I've NEVER seen a man post something like "all my buddies think I'm crazy for going alone and that I need a partner" kinda thing.

    You are right...I personally have never posted a "my buddies think I am crazy for going alone". However, I have posted many, many times "My family thinks I am crazy for going alone"... (esp. this tiny, 5 foot tall woman I call "Mom" )


    Yes, the concerns do seem a bit more pronounced for women going solo in terms of family/friends reaction.

    But going solo in the woods is not something most people are comforable doing. So our friends and family tends to project their fears upon us. Your not taking a gun?!??! You are going alone?!?!? What..no cell phone??!?

    They would never do it...so YOU should be scared.

    Male, female. Young, old. Something in our society conisders the solo quest to be scary. There be dragons...better bring a cell phone.

    At this point in my hiking "career", you'd think my family (and to lesser extent friends) would not worry about me going solo. Nope... every time I lace up those shoes and throw on the pack for a solo adventure the instinct kicks in. "There be dragons...are you going to be OK?"

  6. #26

    Default Risks

    Quote Originally Posted by Mags
    Male, female. Young, old. Something in our society conisders the solo quest to be scary. There be dragons...better bring a cell phone.
    Mags, you hit it well. You remind me that whatever our gender, we all share a similar statistical risk of injury or violence. We naturally fear the unknown, and the woods is in a way the unknown; especially unknown to our family and friends who hear about our adventures.

    Does anyone have the statistics for bodily injuries on the trail? My intuition tells me that our greatest fear should be that we slip and twist an ankle; we may be our own greatest risk? Also, does anyone have any statistics about towns and violence rates in the small towns around the trail (our resupply points) versus the violence rates on the trail. Could the biggest danger be in leaving the trail? I have read a lot of anecdotal evidence suggesting that the danger is in the culture we live in, not the culture that exists on the trail. Danger lurks everywhere, it is clearly not unique to the trail. Still, does anyone know of a good source for the claim that the trail is less dangerous than almost anywhere else?

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by The#Is10
    Maybe both BA Turtle and I are weirdos not to be "scared"...but, with her at my side, and a name that includes the words "bad ass" I think we'll be OK!
    Thanks for clarifying, I may have misunderstood If I did, sorry about that! As for the quote above....you wouldn't be alone then would you

    You'll be fine, and have a great time!
    The Wookie - yes! you are right, it is a much smaller risk on the AT for a woman out there.

    I guess if you are questioning this at all, there is some doubt in your mind somewhere, but the only way to know for sure is to hike the hike, and let everyone deal with it as they will. Nothing more you can do once you take that first step into the woods.........
    ad astra per aspera

  8. #28

    Default Several thoughts...

    1) YerbaJon, that was one of the best posts I've seen you make on WB. I would only add to your post that most marital physical abuse occurs in mutually abusive relationships, that women make greater use of surprise and weapons than do men, and that women are far more likely to get others to attack men than the reverse (by misleading cops into assaulting men, hiring legbreakers and hitmen, even siccing relatives on men). Also, homosexual relationships average multiples as violent as heterosexual relationships.

    2) HH, whenever I encounter a woman who says any version of "men are all the same" or the like, I like to point out to them that we men differ from each other as much as individual women do from each other. When you hear of a woman committing a crazy, dumb, or evil act, and think with certainily "I would never do that", well, so it is with the vast, vast majority of men, when they hear of a man doing such things.

  9. #29

    Default Violance in relationships

    Quote Originally Posted by minnesotasmith
    Also, homosexual relationships average multiples as violent as heterosexual relationships.
    Minor clarification: Male homosexual relationships have the least number of violence, heterosexual relationships slightly more violent, and the most violent relationships are seen in female homosexual relationships. Studies of abuse in homosexual relationships provide some of the strongest evidence for the claim that women are more likely to become physical in relationships.

    However, I would like to add that the differences between the above three groups is not significant. I would like to add a few pieces of data that best summizes the problem and explain why it is hard to show a significant difference in violance potential of either gender.....

    From what I recall in womans studies classes, there are only 0.04% of women who commit repetative violent acts against others. By a landslide, the majority of women do not have a "problem" with commiting violent acts. For this reason, one can trust almost all women to be reasonable.
    On the flip side of this, there are only 0.08% of men who commit repetative volent acts against others. By a landslide, the majority of men do not have a "problem" with commiting violent acts. For this reason, one can trust almost all men to be reasonable.
    Of all the violent acts commited, men are 3 times more likely to be the victim.

    Minnesotasmith: I am glad you found value in my post. Personally, I think my other posts show more wit and clarity.

    So, here is some wit to add to this one:
    "There is a gender war, problem is that only women showed up."

  10. #30
    Registered User The Cheat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The#Is10
    But, I've noticed that I've NEVER seen a man post something like "all my buddies think I'm crazy for going alone and that I need a partner" kinda thing.
    Don't know their gender, but a quick search came up with these:

    http://www.trailforums.net/index2.cf...&entryID=41262

    http://www.trailforums.net/index2.cf...&entryID=31892

    http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/show...highlight=solo

    http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/show...highlight=solo

  11. #31
    Springer - Front Royal Lilred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The#Is10
    What started me thinking about this issue was yet another woman posting on the backpacker forums that her FEMALE hiking friends scared her into posting a question about the safety of her hiking solo.
    The first time I ever put a backpack on my back and went into the woods was Nov. '03. Hit the AT with Rain Man, but he hiked too fast for me so I finished the 7 day trip by myself. It never crossed my mind to be scared. I was cautious, especially towards injury, but I never considered that I would be raped or mauled by a bear. I was quite taken aback when I returned and everyone kept asking, "weren't you scared?" After a while, I started thinking, gosh, should I be scared? I love hiking solo and continue to do so. Of course, I've learned to always refer to myself as 'we' when talking on the trail, just in case.
    "It was on the first of May, in the year 1769, that I resigned my domestic happiness for a time, and left my family and peaceable habitation on the Yadkin River, in North Carolina, to wander through the wilderness of America." - Daniel Boone

  12. #32

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lilredmg
    I've learned to always refer to myself as 'we' when talking on the trail, just in case.
    Great idea; fundamentals.

    I am thinking of adopting this and modifying it a bit to refer to my wife and I as "part of a larger group".
    Us? Alone? Just for a bit, we are waiting on the rest of our group to catch up; were part of a Forest Ranger's reunion...

  13. #33
    Addicted Hiker and Donating Member Hammock Hanger's Avatar
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    Default I agree... now!

    Quote Originally Posted by minnesotasmith

    2) HH, whenever I encounter a woman who says any version of "men are all the same" or the like, I like to point out to them that we men differ from each other as much as individual women do from each other. When you hear of a woman committing a crazy, dumb, or evil act, and think with certainily "I would never do that", well, so it is with the vast, vast majority of men, when they hear of a man doing such things.
    Minnasotasmith: I agree that "stereo typing" of any kind is wrong. I also agree that we are all different. I no longer have such a "dislike" for the male population as a whole. When I did you must realize it was trauma induced.

    HH
    Hammock Hanger -- Life is my journey and I'm surely not rushing to the "summit"...:D

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  14. #34

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammock Hanger
    I no longer have such a "dislike" for the male population as a whole. When I did you must realize it was trauma induced.
    Word! When we are wronged in any way then we are changed by it; often we have fear of things we did not have a fear of before. I can only imagine that when trauma is involved in the equation that the fears explode to an astronomical level. As a counselor, I see everday how traumatic events percalate into all aspects of a persons life; even on a hike the memory of trauma influences the thoughts that go thru the mind.

    I think it is reasonable to consider ways in which we can lessen lives risks. My hope is that the trail is the safest place with the least amount of risks. Could it be the best place left in the US to avoid risk of violent crime; no safer place to live?
    To that end, I repeat the following questions:
    Does anyone have the statistics for bodily injuries on the trail?
    Also, does anyone have any statistics about towns and violence rates in the small towns around the trail (our resupply points) versus the violence rates on the trail?
    Does anyone know of a good source for the claim that the trail is less dangerous than almost anywhere else?

  15. #35
    Registered User Nightwalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklooper
    Trail life is cool. I can't wait to get this stupid tooth out and get back out there where I belong..
    Tooth is out. I'm a bit sick, but a lot better than yesterday when I was hurting so bad.
    Just hike.

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tha Wookie
    "More than half of all female sexual assault victims and nearly 75 percent of their male attackers were under the influence of alcohol or drugs at the time of the incident."
    Why does this statistic not surprise me?!! If women stay away from alcohol and from males with beer and other alchoholic "beverages," they've eliminated over three-quarters of their potential attackers right there? Worth thinking about?

    Rain Man

    .
    [I]ye shall not pollute the land wherein ye are: ... Defile not therefore the land which ye shall inhabit....[/I]. Numbers 35

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    .

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rain Man
    If women stay away from alcohol and from males with beer and other alchoholic "beverages," they've eliminated over three-quarters of their potential attackers right there? Worth thinking about?
    Dude! You can't have fun unless you are drinking. Everyone knows that.
    Yellow Jacket -- Words of Wisdom (tm) go here.

  18. #38
    Getting out as much as I can..which is never enough. :) Mags's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YerbaJon
    Mags, you hit it well. You remind me that whatever our gender, we all share a similar statistical risk of injury or violence. We naturally fear the unknown, and the woods is in a way the unknown; especially unknown to our family and friends who hear about our adventures.

    Yep. Our family and friends project their fears upon us. That is why so many people caution us to go solo in the woods. Our family and friends are afraid. Why aren't we?

    I've been on solo thru-hikes of the LT(x2),AT,PCT and Colo Trail. The family still gets nervous when I talk about a weekend backpacking trip...never mind the CDT.

  19. #39
    First Sergeant SGT Rock's Avatar
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    Everyone still asks me about bears, snakes, and hillbillies when the truth is the biggest danger is hypothermia. Of course they worry about it double with the so-called helpless females. We do get at least one question from a new woman hiker every year worried about her safety.
    SGT Rock
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    BMT Thru-Hikers' Guide
    -----------------------------------------

    NO SNIVELING

  20. #40
    Getting out as much as I can..which is never enough. :) Mags's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=SGT Rock. Of course they worry about it double with the so-called helpless females.[/QUOTE]


    "so-called helpless" indeed.

    Many of the most accomplished people in the outdoors are women. A friend of mine is making plans to do her first 8000m peak. Wish I was so "helpless".

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