Tipping and Donations

[Lone Wolf]

Giving a waitrees a tip or whomever thats how they support themselves, but when a hostil askes for a donation you don't have to give anything, its a donation thats it.

oh really. how do the electric, water, sewer, mowing and upkeep bills get paid? if you use the hostel and don't pay the the $6 you're pretty much a sad excuse for a hiker and a human being. just my opinion

[Lyle]

To me, a donation is voluntary.

As a consumer, we must understand that there are expenses associated with running any type of public service. If we are able (and if we are out hiking for an extended time, we should be able) it is our obligation to help defray those costs. A suggested donation tells me this is the minimum average needed to cover expenses - so I give more since I can. On the other hand, calling it a donation implies to me that they do not wish to turn individuals down if they are short right now, and can't leave the SUGGESTED donation.

I guess that is the problem for those facilities that choose to use ambiguous terms when communicating with their patrons - everyone gets to apply their own definitions and meanings.

[Lone Wolf]

and to most hikers it means FREE HOSTEL.

[rocketsocks]

and to most hikers it means FREE HOSTEL.

Tipping the jar does not always mean the same to all people, or the direction it tips....shame!

[Lyle]

Didn't mean the above to be specifically targeted at The Place. If the sign states, as LW says "$6/night - Honor System" Then it should be assumed that that is a charge, and if you don't have it - tent.

Many other places, however, are still asking for donations, or suggesting donations, and complaining when they don't get them. Partially their fault, especially since they know the entitled attitude that seems to take over too many long-distance hikers.

[Lone Wolf]

it's disturbing to think a hiker would not even pay the minimum to use a facility and not feel bad about it yet spend cash on beer, dope, tobacco and restaurant food in town.

[rocketsocks]

yeah, I don't get that. If you don't have the money to go hiking....don't go! simple...

[atmilkman]

I blame a lot of it on MTV.

[Lyle]

Ok LW, honestly, do MOST hikers not leave anything? I know this is a pet peeve of yours and TOW's, so it looms large in your mind. Is it really true that MOST do not leave anything? Not trying to challenge you on it, but is that accurate or are you maybe exaggerating a bit because you are so close to it?

If this is true, then hikers, as a group, should be ashamed of themselves for not policing themselves better. Where is the peer pressure? Other hikers have to see this. Would everyone just stand by while another hiker bathed in a spring, or broke planks off a shelter wall for firewood? I doubt it.

[Lone Wolf]

Ok LW, honestly, do MOST hikers not leave anything? I know this is a pet peeve of yours and TOW's, so it looms large in your mind. Is it really true that MOST do not leave anything? Not trying to challenge you on it, but is that accurate or are you maybe exaggerating a bit because you are so close to it?

If this is true, then hikers, as a group, should be ashamed of themselves for not policing themselves better. Where is the peer pressure? Other hikers have to see this. Would everyone just stand by while another hiker bathed in a spring, or broke planks off a shelter wall for firewood? I doubt it.

TOW and I don' have access to the donation box. the caretaker, during the busy season comes every other day or so to collect the money. we tell him how many hikers were there and how many nites they stayed. the box is always short. last fall 8 SOBOs stayed 2 or 3 nites. they left nothing. that's just one example

[HikerMom58]

Well guys, I will have an opportunity to judge what a free-loader hiker appears to be like, myself, I guess. I'm not sure what conversation we will get ourselves into- BUT if the subject comes up? Yeah, it will be hard to hide the true self. It has to do with a person's character, that's what it's all about. I'll be sure to give you MHO of the character of this person. It's a learned behavior. They won't change for anyone, really. As long as it keeps on working for them, there's no reason to change.

[Wise Old Owl]

TOW and I don' have access to the donation box. the caretaker, during the busy season comes every other day or so to collect the money. we tell him how many hikers were there and how many nites they stayed. the box is always short. last fall 8 SOBOs stayed 2 or 3 nites. they left nothing. that's just one example

wow that's sad...

[Wise Old Owl]

Software fail

[JohnWayne]

Giving a waitrees a tip or whomever thats how they support themselves, but when a hostil askes for a donation you don't have to give anything, its a donation thats it.

Well sir, with a notion like that, you and the Care Bear Family must have gotten along mighty well! Seems like you two have more in common than we thought.

Sometimes honor means a heap lot more than being a freeloader. It means not taken advantage of the good graces of others. Running those hostels ain't free and when you stay at a place knowing they kind of need $6 or more to cover you it is mighty low to make others pay your share.

[JohnWayne]

Well guys, I will have an opportunity to judge what a free-loader hiker appears to be like, myself, I guess. I'm not sure what conversation we will get ourselves into- BUT if the subject comes up? Yeah, it will be hard to hide the true self. It has to do with a person's character, that's what it's all about. I'll be sure to give you MHO of the character of this person. It's a learned behavior. They won't change for anyone, really. As long as it keeps on working for them, there's no reason to change.

But if you yourself are helping them, no offense, but in your own words - there's no reason for them to change.

[HikerMom58]

But if you yourself are helping them, no offense, but in your own words - there's no reason for them to change.

I understand what you are saying. The kind of help I'm giving them, IMHO, will fall far short(understatement) of the real help that is needed here. I don't want to enable but more of a reaching out, in a situation, that is way "too much" for anyone of us to understand or expect immediate change.(or change of any kind) I totally understand where you are coming from, John, and I agree with what you are saying... what would you do? I'm really interested to hear your opinion.

[ChinMusic]

Giving a waitrees a tip or whomever thats how they support themselves, but when a hostil askes for a donation you don't have to give anything, its a donation thats it.

I swear I just saw the Aflac Duck...........

[Kryptonite]

Giving a waitrees a tip or whomever thats how they support themselves, but when a hostil askes for a donation you don't have to give anything, its a donation thats it.

I hope that you do not stay in any of these hostels then. Because that is simply being a freeloader. And I will say it if no one else here will - you are the very kind of hiker who gives the rest of us a bad name if you leave nothing or less than what it costs to help run these hostels. It is a mindset like that which has caused so many hostels to close.

[Bronk]

A donation is charity or a gift, and thus voluntary. That's how the word is defined. I think its pretty tacky for someone to tell someone else how big of a gift they should give them. If you don't want to get stiffed, charge a fee and collect it upfront. If you ask for voluntary donations, don't complain when when some people don't volunteer. Seems pretty simple to me. If you're operating a business, you're in it to make a profit. Charge a fee. Donations are for churches and charities. Don't confuse people into thinking you're not a business by asking for donations. Churches, charities and individuals operate on donations because they are motivated by something other than the money...if they break even money wise they are getting for free what motivated them in the first place...seems like a pretty good deal to me.

[Lybarger]

The word "donation' is used so that a hostel is not considered a business and subject to so many regulations, fees, taxes. It may sound shady, but otherwise most every hostel on the AT would have to charge $40 or $50 a person + tax. How many hikers would be able to pay that amount.

Several posts here have recommended that hostels get legit. If that happens, be ready to spend alot more time in the woods...and smell a little worse.