Time to fire AMC

[Chaco Taco]

Just got back a little while ago. Stayed at Ethan Pond last night. My hat is off to the caretaker at this site. He was working on the compost and getting ready to start another drying batch of the privy. I did not envy his job. Saw him out cutting over hangs and moving rocks this am, and we leave out early This particular guy was very friendly. We had a great group. Slamander, from this site was there. Saw a good many thru's. Saw a couple of SOBO's. Anyway, I just want to comment because this came up in discussion. The number of young people going to work at the AMC has dropped in recent years. This particular caretaker said many of them go back to school, so the numbers drop even more. I was also glad to see much of the Willey Range is not blazed. There is no need to. Blazes are where blazes need to be. There are some difficult parts that you have to navigate. Thats part of it. People forget the AT is but a small piece of The Whites. The signage is everywhere and new signs have been put up all along the AT. Had a great time and saw many father/ daughter duo's out. Great seeing parents get their kids out

[Pedaling Fool]

He was working on the compost and getting ready to start another drying batch of the privy. I did not envy his job. Saw him out cutting over hangs and moving rocks this am, and we leave out early This particular guy was very friendly.

There's no such thing as a maintenance-free privy; I don't care how "mouldering friendly" the design is supposed to be. The privies through that section of the Whites are the only ones that receive proper maintenance for complete aerobic decomposition.

Not a criticism of all other clubs; that section of the Whites just has the infrastructure to be able to do it.

[swjohnsey]

Well, I made it to Stratton, only 190 or so miles to go. Got to see first hand how some of the really nice rock work probably done initially by the CCC boys in the '30 that has been allowed to wash away in Maine. I still haven't figured out why the folks in Maine haven't figured out the bridge thing. Can you imagine fording the James River?hike

My guess is that the AMC foks who actually control where the money is spent haven't hiked the AT in years.

[swjohnsey]

As someone else stated, the National Forest Service sets the rules in the White Mtns, and the AMC just helps to enforce them. Around the Whites, you cannot blaze in a "Wilderness area", so route finding does become a bit tougher, which is the intent of the wilderness area in the first place. You can like AMC or not, but the truth is that they do an outstanding job of mobilizing a volunteer work force for the hundreds of trails in the Whites, the vast majority of them non-AT trails. Other trails are more popular and get more attention.

Maybe the Forest Service could tweek it's rules for blazing in the Wilderness areas for the AT only for those just passin' thru.

Mr. Clean, maintainer of the Baldface Circle trail (non-AT)

I had a ranger at Joe Dodge Lodge try to blow the same smoke up my skirt. Let's see, we can put up signs but a white blaze is intrusive. Need I remind folks that the AT crosses dozens of wilderness areas.

[tdoczi]

I had a ranger at Joe Dodge Lodge try to blow the same smoke up my skirt. Let's see, we can put up signs but a white blaze is intrusive. Need I remind folks that the AT crosses dozens of wilderness areas.

yes, and theres less blazing when they do. the signs in places like VT tell you so. i'm sure i have a picture of such a sign at home i can show you.

they can probably put blazes or the signs. the signs serve everyone, the blazes serve the maybe 2% who are AT hikers. not a tough choice to make.

[Tom Murphy]

Well, I made it to Stratton, only 190 or so miles to go. Got to see first hand how some of the really nice rock work probably done initially by the CCC boys in the '30 that has been allowed to wash away in Maine. I still haven't figured out why the folks in Maine haven't figured out the bridge thing. Can you imagine fording the James River?hike

My guess is that the AMC foks who actually control where the money is spent haven't hiked the AT in years.

MATC and AMC are two seperate groups.

MATC seems to harden their trails by routing on ledges where ever possible.

I am glad the MATC does not build bridges. I enjoy crossing brooks, streams, and rivers. That is part of hiking in New England.

For the most part, the AMC executives are hikers [or at least the ones I have met]. The AMC has miles and miles of trails it manitains & the AMC is only a tiny percentage of the total.

[hikerboy57]

no 1 said it was going to be easy.

[Moose2001]

Well, I made it to Stratton, only 190 or so miles to go. Got to see first hand how some of the really nice rock work probably done initially by the CCC boys in the '30 that has been allowed to wash away in Maine. I still haven't figured out why the folks in Maine haven't figured out the bridge thing. Can you imagine fording the James River?hike

My guess is that the AMC foks who actually control where the money is spent haven't hiked the AT in years.

Before you run your mouth and bitch, maybe you should take a moment or two and find out why things are the way they are. Oh....that's right. It's easier to bitch and whine than to be an adult!

[hikerboy57]

can the AMC please do something about the black flies? and can they put a moving sidewalk inmahoosuc notch come on guys stop whining already.

[Rasty]

can the AMC please do something about the black flies? and can they put a moving sidewalk inmahoosuc notch come on guys stop whining already.

One escalator on the way! Where do you want it HB?

[T.S.Kobzol]

Nice

This is why the AMC should be removed.. Their own 990 tax filing

http://dynamodata.fdncenter.org/990_...201012_990.pdf

Andrew Felender - president of the AMC pays himself $300,000 a year in salary.. At least six others pull down over $100,000 a year.

Out of $20,000,000 in revenue, $10,000,000 goes toward salaries... Good if you are a for-profit company, bad for a non-profit

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[T.S.Kobzol]

We'll for starters I would want them to stop separating working family from taking their kids to hike the presidential range in 3 nights. At these prices many NH kids will know about hiking the presidential range from geography class but will never be able to afford it.

The prices discriminate. It is similar to paying $4000 for country club membership to separate your self from the blue collar thrash.

What would you rather them spend the money on? Do you want more shelters? Would you rather the money go towards building more huts? If they are not spending it on salaries of the people taking care of the mountains, then they would be spending it on building more stuff.

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[Chaco Taco]

Well, I made it to Stratton, only 190 or so miles to go. Got to see first hand how some of the really nice rock work probably done initially by the CCC boys in the '30 that has been allowed to wash away in Maine. I still haven't figured out why the folks in Maine haven't figured out the bridge thing. Can you imagine fording the James River?hike

My guess is that the AMC foks who actually control where the money is spent haven't hiked the AT in years.

Ahh but who maintains that stair case there Mr Crabbypaints.

"Im sorry but the trail is just too hard, too many climbs, too many rocks not enough man made structures to get me to Maine. And really folks, lets get atleast 10 more hostels cuz I just dont want to get dirty. I need to shower every other day. Pshh, yea and screw those trail maintainers, esp the lazy caretakers in The Whites. They dont do nothin.
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Im guessing if you would have hiked it back when those CCC boys were out building stuff, you wouldnt have made it outta Georgia.

[hikerboy57]

plenty of beautiful areas to take the kids that are free. and there are many ways to hike the presis w/o using the huts.
but theyre also a great way to introduce a kid to the mountains for a night.and theyll usually find kids their own age there so they dont feel this hiking expedition is some sort of punishment.the more people we can get to love the mountains, the more of a pool to help protect it as well. its a 2 edged sword.

[weary]

Well, I made it to Stratton, only 190 or so miles to go. Got to see first hand how some of the really nice rock work probably done initially by the CCC boys in the '30 that has been allowed to wash away in Maine. I still haven't figured out why the folks in Maine haven't figured out the bridge thing. Can you imagine fording the James River?hike

My guess is that the AMC foks who actually control where the money is spent haven't hiked the AT in years.

MATC, an almost entirely volunteer group, maintains the Appalachian Trail and its side trails, from Grafton Notch, north to Katahdin. The trail in Maine was mostly constructed by volunteers, though CCC crews provided important help back in the 1930s. The last Maine last link was completed 75 years ago this month. MATC and ATC celebrated the anniversary a few days ago, for the last Maine link also made the AT a continuous 2,000-mile footpath for the first time. Only a few miles of CCC constructed trail remain. Two thirds of the original route was relocated in the 70s and 80's mostly to move the route out of the valleys, and on to the ridge lines of the mountains, as was required by Congress, when it authorized the federal purchase of the trail corridor.

I don't recall any rock work done by the CCC. In recent years, however, MATC has employed trained leaders to work with several volunteer groups to build a series of rock steps to prevent erosion of the trail treadway. You will see them all on your final 190 mile walk if you decide to stick with your hike. You may think the bare rock steps represent erosion. But that is just the way they were designed to be. BTW, I don't know for sure, but I doubt if any significant rock work was done by the CCC in the White Mountains, either. The AT trail through the Whites pretty much followed existing AMC trails.

MATC deliberately has chosen not to build bridges across most streams. We want to keep the trail as wild and natural as possible. And during the periods of greatest trail use, most streams are easily crossed, by competent hikers.

We do provide a canoe ferry to ease the crossing of the Kennebec. And there is a walkway built along a logging company bridge over the Penobscot. These are about the only rivers that most hikers, can't manage by themselves, either by wading or using natural stepping stones.

[T.S.Kobzol]

I know that, but the point is that because of these prices some segments are shut out. They don't even acknowledge long standing members by giving them discounts, no discounts for NH residents or low income families...nothin...why not give back some love? The hiking of the presidential range is world famous and it is something that NH residents are proud of when there is discussion about their state. Why alienating residents with prices that are higher than Bostons Hilton?

plenty of beautiful areas to take the kids that are free. and there are many ways to hike the presis w/o using the huts.
but theyre also a great way to introduce a kid to the mountains for a night.and theyll usually find kids their own age there so they dont feel this hiking expedition is some sort of punishment.the more people we can get to love the mountains, the more of a pool to help protect it as well. its a 2 edged sword.

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[Moose2001]

I know that, but the point is that because of these prices some segments are shut out. They don't even acknowledge long standing members by giving them discounts, no discounts for NH residents or low income families...nothin...why not give back some love? The hiking of the presidential range is world famous and it is something that NH residents are proud of when there is discussion about their state. Why alienating residents with prices that are higher than Bostons Hilton?

Hiking is free. No one's getting cut out or charged to hike. I don't see the Boston Hilton giving discounts. If you don't like the price, use your tent!

[T.S.Kobzol]

You can't use your tent above the tree line (rightly so)... You don't get the point at all. Look at the salaries and the excess money and ask yourself if there could not be done some goodness with some of it especially when we are discussing a Non Profit.

Hiking is free. No one's getting cut out or charged to hike. I don't see the Boston Hilton giving discounts. If you don't like the price, use your tent!

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[hikerboy57]

you CAN do the presis without using the huts. and without tenting above treeline. just takes good planning, and a little luck with the weather.you're also talking about one of the most dangerous mountains in the world.
its called supply and demand. the huts have no problem filling up quickly in the season despite the "exhorbitant" price to stay. if they lowered the price, youd have a 1yr+ wait.
ive got a bigger issue with met ticket prices.

[Just a Hiker]

Well, I made it to Stratton, only 190 or so miles to go. Got to see first hand how some of the really nice rock work probably done initially by the CCC boys in the '30 that has been allowed to wash away in Maine. I still haven't figured out why the folks in Maine haven't figured out the bridge thing. Can you imagine fording the James River?hike

My guess is that the AMC foks who actually control where the money is spent haven't hiked the AT in years.

Considering your displeasure with New Hampshire and Maine, you better get off the internet and get some rest.....you're gonna have a tough day in the Bigelows tomorrow.