Time to fire AMC

[Wise Old Owl]

Moldy - As a group we were talking about the cost of staying in the huts and the "Doing the dishes" a few weeks ago. It was cause for me to look up a lot of information about the good service that the AMC does in "locking up land adjacent to the AT" for future generations. The Huts operate at a slight loss of income and the AMC struggles for finding good financial donors, and young people to donate time.

I wish I could ask you to spend a little time looking at their website and see for yourself.

Your post would be offensive to the hard working trail maintainers and donating members of AMC.

[jakedatc]

I just got finished with the presidential range. This was my first time in the Whites. Personally (and this is JUST my personal feeling) the ATC should move the Appalachian Trail. Climbing Madison was not HIKING it is boulder hoping, mountain climbing and scared the begeeberz out of me. I want to HIKE not mountain climb. I will not finish the AT because I will not go back to the Whites. There are too many good hiking trails to hike so that I don't have to boulder hop and face death with every step.

LOL imagine that all hiking trails aren't paved sidewalks with snack machines along the way.. good thing it didn't rain or snow on you or you might have had a reason to be scared. There is NOTHING on Mt Madison that is "risking death"

real rock climbing... (and still not facing death at every move)
HighE4.jpg

[Blissful]

fire them? who exactly is paying them?

Bingo.

All I can say is, if you don't like it, get out there and help out. I am the utmost respect for the volounteers as a "paid" person for PATC. I admire them greatly.


As far as blazing, that's what good ol maps are for... I did see a lack of blazing SOBO on the Franconia Ridge but had no issues. Going through the WHites a second time, I thoroughly enjoyed it. Except work for stay. I got no sleep.

But it doesn't surprise me that NOBOs have an attitude. I have seen that attitude all season in MD from many (not all of course. Some were great). Most want things done or given to them to make their life easier. They think they deserve it. It's a "gimme" attitude. It's sad.

[jakedatc]

grrr.. stupid no edit button.

I didn't mean to come off that harsh.

Judy, I know it was your summer vacation so I hope you at least enjoyed some of of the Whites, they can be difficult but the views are worth the effort I think. There are other areas in the Whites that are not as exposed as Madison (though others that are more so). Having done 30 of the 48 4000'ers so far i've gone up stuff that requires basic rock climbing and others that small kids can do easily.

[Blissful]

I just got finished with the presidential range. This was my first time in the Whites. Personally (and this is JUST my personal feeling) the ATC should move the Appalachian Trail. Climbing Madison was not HIKING it is boulder hoping, mountain climbing and scared the begeeberz out of me. I want to HIKE not mountain climb. I will not finish the AT because I will not go back to the Whites. There are too many good hiking trails to hike so that I don't have to boulder hop and face death with every step.

Now that you have seen the fear and let it out of your system (and believe me, I faced that as a NOBO when I nearly ditched my pack over a precipice on North Carter)- do it again. Maybe even SOBO. Guarantee it will be a different experience. One learns how to do the boulders and rocks. Its a puzzle to figure out. But it can be done and done safely and with enjoyment. Really. I learned to take my frustration and allow it to help me conquer the trail. I refused to let it conquer me.

[hikerboy57]

LOL imagine that all hiking trails aren't paved sidewalks with snack machines along the way.. good thing it didn't rain or snow on you or you might have had a reason to be scared. There is NOTHING on Mt Madison that is "risking death"

real rock climbing... (and still not facing death at every move)
HighE4.jpg

if thatst's high exposure it's a great climb,a5.4that makes you feel like you're 1000 feet off the deck.the gunks have great low difficult routes with outstanding exposure. and the rock is awesome!
great hiking area too.
sorry for the drift.

[jakedatc]

Correct.. 5.6 tho now i'm off to NH to sport climb.. and do 2 4000'ers for a day hike for the weekend. you guys hold down the fort.

[Papa D]

I just did the whites a few weeks ago - some more blazes would have been nice but I found my way - - got turned around walking to to top of Zealand by mistake but it was only .1. I did miss the turn at Osgood Tent Site heading toward Pinkham Notch and would suggest that the DOC did mark the trail better than the AMC. The Huts probably have their place though - there are plenty of issues ahead of trashing the AMC - I wouldn't pay to stay in a hut though; it's not my style - I'm more of a tent site guy in the whites. Madison Hut did have some pretty good tomato soup for lunch though - -bought for me by a really nice guest.

[hikerboy57]

Correct.. 5.6 tho now i'm off to NH to sport climb.. and do 2 4000'ers for a day hike for the weekend. you guys hold down the fort.

it's been a while I'm getting old. it's been over 2 years since I tied in.

[quilteresq]

Hurricane Irene did do a significant amount of damage up here last year.

I bought a new AMC guide this year, and just about every trail description begins with the caveat: Irene did major damage to the trail, check with rangers before starting out. I think it's more Irene related than anything else - it will get better if we don't have a storm like THAT soon!

[Don H]

I would have gladly paid for a tent site but they were always full. That's what I get for hiking all day. I stealthed every night except the night I stayed Lake of the Clouds.
From Lake of the Clouds to Madison was a challenge in rain and about 50 mph winds. It sure is challenging to hop wet rocks with the wind blowing you off balance! Still I wouldn't have wanted the trail to go anywhere else. The views are breathtaking when the weather cooperates!

[Snowleopard]

Steep, rocky, climbing over boulders and roots, all so true in the Whites. Nobody has mentioned yet that the AMC has not done anything about the atrocious weather and black flies.
The obvious solution is to reroute the NH section of the AT to Florida.

[DavidNH]

ok I HAVE to chime in here. It's all we need some guy from the deep south, complaining about trail maintenance and lack of blazes on the AT in the whites.
Sir you need to think before you post such nonsense. First.. trail conditions are only any better in Maine because, once north of the whites, you don't have gazillions of people on the trails and causing erosion. Have you ever hiked in a really heavy rain on steep slopes? water bars don't do any good anymore.. the stream of water just washes over them. Plus we had Tropical Storm Irene last here that gave something like a half foot of rain in two days. Lots of erosion.

The last thing we want is white blazes on every other tree. Unlike Texas.. we have designated wildernesses up here. trails can't be overly manicured.

finally.. trail maintenance is almost entirely done by volunteers. Much of it is extremely hard work (I know.. I did it for a week in Baxter State Park). it's ok to grumble to yourself.. but don't go publicly dissing the AMC about it. And of course the trails to the huts will be better marked. They get a lot more traffic. You do the maintenance on the well traveled trails first! Also.. There is NO Part of the AT that gets the traffic that the whites do.

Now for Heart Fire: move the AT off of Mount Madison.. or any of the other Presidential peaks? that's the single dumbest idea I've ever heard/read on whiteblaze. The AT is a mountain foot path designed to go over summits. The Presidentials are perhaps the most famous peaks in the entire range. get used to it, the whites aren't the walk in the park the AT is down south. Maybe you should just fine yourself a new sport!

[Chaco Taco]

ok I HAVE to chime in here. It's all we need some guy from the deep south, complaining about trail maintenance and lack of blazes on the AT in the whites.
Sir you need to think before you post such nonsense. First.. trail conditions are only any better in Maine because, once north of the whites, you don't have gazillions of people on the trails and causing erosion. Have you ever hiked in a really heavy rain on steep slopes? water bars don't do any good anymore.. the stream of water just washes over them. Plus we had Tropical Storm Irene last here that gave something like a half foot of rain in two days. Lots of erosion.

The last thing we want is white blazes on every other tree. Unlike Texas.. we have designated wildernesses up here. trails can't be overly manicured.

finally.. trail maintenance is almost entirely done by volunteers. Much of it is extremely hard work (I know.. I did it for a week in Baxter State Park). it's ok to grumble to yourself.. but don't go publicly dissing the AMC about it. And of course the trails to the huts will be better marked. They get a lot more traffic. You do the maintenance on the well traveled trails first! Also.. There is NO Part of the AT that gets the traffic that the whites do.

Now for Heart Fire: move the AT off of Mount Madison.. or any of the other Presidential peaks? that's the single dumbest idea I've ever heard/read on whiteblaze. The AT is a mountain foot path designed to go over summits. The Presidentials are perhaps the most famous peaks in the entire range. get used to it, the whites aren't the walk in the park the AT is down south. Maybe you should just fine yourself a new sport!

What he said and Im a southerner

[bobqzzi]

the amc's maintenance of the at is appalling. Their only interest seems to be their huts. When one crosses from amc to mamc territory the difference is immediately apparent. Time to find another club that is interested in the at.

There was a stretch in the whites of several miles without a single blaze. How much does white paint cost? Every downhill stretch is completely washed away to nothing but rocks and roots. Maybe some of the folks from south of the mason-dixon can teach them how to divert water flow off the trail.

I'm in rangeley, me, about 220 miles to go to katadin.

lol!!!!!!!!

[Driver8]

As for "blazing is not allowed in USFS wilderness areas"...says who?! I won't claim to be an expert, but this doesn't appear to be an issue in any other USFS wilderness area I've hiked through.

Blazing of trails is definitely not permitted in the Great Gulf, Dry River and Pemigewasset Wilderness areas in the Whites. That rule may be specific to those areas, I'm not sure, but I've read in the AMC White Mountain Guide and, I think, at the USFS White Mountain website about this prohibition on blazing of trails in these areas. I think it's also the case in the wilderness area on the southeastern side of the Carter Range, the name of which escapes me at the moment.

There are White Blazes on the Gulfside-THC-Crawford Path stretch from the Jewell Trail to the Monroe Loop, which I have hiked. Not sure about the blazing on the rest of the A.T. routing in the Presidentials. If you have good maps, know how to read them and indeed do consult them, and know how to orient in terrain, skills which most people who have hiked 1800+ miles will have, though doubtless it can be an issue for some, you should be able to navigate the well-traveled A.T. routes in the Whites without much trouble, whether blazed or not.

That being said, I have a friend who has hiked the whole A.T. once and most of it a second time who recently got turned around at a notoriously confusing intersection near the Osgood Tentsite in the unblazed stretch in the Great Gulf Wilderness. Cost him and his hiking partner about three miles and an hour's hiking, myself as well as their shuttle. Happens to the best of us now and then.

[Feral Bill]

I have found it close to impossible to get lost on the at unless you're in a white out

In which case white blazes (or anything else) would be beyond useless.

[Driver8]

I just got finished with the presidential range. This was my first time in the Whites. Personally (and this is JUST my personal feeling) the ATC should move the Appalachian Trail. Climbing Madison was not HIKING it is boulder hoping, mountain climbing ...

Personally, I think they should relocate the A.T. in the Presidentials to go over EVERY summit, including Clay. Eisenhower Loop, Monroe Loop, Clay Loop, Jefferson Loop and, I forget the name of the route, but the route from Thunderstorm Junction to Adams summit and then down around and past Star Lake to the hut. Makes it harder for thru-hikers, yes, but c'mon, it's amazing territory - take in all the high points.

I delight in how difficult the Whites are. Love the challenge, love the views, love the risk, love how it kicks my butt, expands my boundaries, tests my concentration. Who needs easy? Give me hard and beautiful and exciting and wondrous. Let's live a little!

One of the great days of my life so far: 2012-06-17 15.48.58.jpg

Another: 2012-05-26 16.13.06.jpg

Another: 2012-07-22 11.45.43.jpg

All these made possible by the tireless hard work by volunteers who love, build and maintain the great White Mountain trail system, of which the A.T. is a small but important part. My hat's off to them all.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Lack of maintenance? Do you know why the trail looked like after Hurricane Irene hit last year?

[DaSchwartz]

This is why the AMC should be removed.. Their own 990 tax filing

http://dynamodata.fdncenter.org/990_...201012_990.pdf

Andrew Felender - president of the AMC pays himself $300,000 a year in salary.. At least six others pull down over $100,000 a year.

Out of $20,000,000 in revenue, $10,000,000 goes toward salaries... Good if you are a for-profit company, bad for a non-profit