Crampons or snowshoes or both?

[colorado_rob]

I'm just curious if the Evo ascents can actually act as crampons since everyone seems to rave about their traction and the bottoms look a like super crampon.

Yep, they work great. MSR snowshoes are by far the most common her in CO, for that very reason. Excellent on side-hills especially, complex fall lines, etc. Not the best floaters though. Really deep stuff and they won't hold you on the surace as well as the big, clunky shoes. you can buy extra "tails" for your MSR's that extend their length and make you float slightly better. I bought them for mine, used them once in maybe 5 years. I'd sell you my tails except mine are for the Denali model, I don't think they would fit.

[Timinator]

Yeah I intend to buy the tails just in case. Thanks for the input, at least now I won't have to worry about buying and lugging around crampons. Thanks a lot.

[Zippy Morocco]

I'm a Montana local. Snow starts to become permanent here in October. I imagine you will be rerouting some and will find snow shoes to be helpful. That early in the winter you should probably avoid the areas where crampons would be used due to the snow being unsteady. If at all possible flip to Glacier Park then hike south. Glacier is serious terrain and can be dangerous in the best conditions. I have done some winter snow shoeing in Glacier, it is beautiful but I stayed pretty low. Good luck!

[Tom Murphy]

I'm just curious if the Evo ascents can actually act as crampons since everyone seems to rave about their traction and the bottoms look a like super crampon.

It depends.

Again crampons are the right tool for icy slopes where a fall or a fall/slide will injury you [exposure].

I have used my snowshoes on slopes by kick-stepping and going straight up. But if the ice/snow does allow that, then crampons are good to have.

Traversing [sidehilling] an icy slope with snowshoes is a lot more difficult but sometimes you can do it if the conditions are right.

I typically avoid terrain that will require crampons and an axe. Is that a possibility? Just find a safer route and go around the dangerous terrain?

[mudhead]

I think we should step away from the "get experience" thing now, thanks for you're concern but I really just want to get my question answered. I'll deal with getting the proper experience in my own time in my own way.

One big benefit of getting the experience is the discovery of what gear you need for a particular situation.

That includes sock type...

[Mags]

I know you said zip it on the experience issue, but every year people with no experience make bold claims.

The difference vs an ambitious speed hike is that winter, with possible avy conditions, is not a good time to experiment.

Good luck...and please be safe.

[10-K]

I know you said zip it on the experience issue, but every year people with no experience make bold claims.

The difference vs an ambitious speed hike is that winter, with possible avy conditions, is not a good time to experiment.

Good luck...and please be safe.

Bears repeating.....

[BrianLe]

Okay, so if I understand correctly you plan to start somewhere near the southern end of Wyoming in July/August and hike north. So the first snow you'll hit will be, I guess, going into the Winds.

I wouldn't bring snowshoes. Again, consolidated old snow is different than fresh snow. But depending on the year, you likely will have to deal with snow, and perhaps high creek crossings. In fact, creek crossings could be the bigger risk/hassle. I personally hiked SOBO, so it was mid-August by the time I got into the winds. Snow was not an issue; there were patches, but not a problem then. OTOH, talking to NOBOs who hit the winds in July it sounded pretty tough.

Given the experience level you're talking about, I suggest you incline your trip to start in later July rather than early July --- or even early August. I'd bring microspikes, perhaps mail them to Atlantic City or South Pass City.
Note that if you're starting in southern WY, you'll have some waterless stretches to deal with, or alternatively some of the nastiest cow water I've had to deal with. It's not hard to do 30's from source to source in the Great Basin area when you're in shape, but that's not going to be practical just starting out. And I wonder if you might get particular feet issues (blisters) from starting out in the no-shade, flat, endless dirt road stretches north of Rawlins? Nothing that can't be dealt with, just FYI on that.

[Tom Murphy]

Again, consolidated old snow is different than fresh snow.

A fresh snow in colder condition [say beolw 25 degF] will be powdery and you need a snowshoe with a large surface area to avoid postholing.

Towards the end of the winter, the snow has gone through a few thaw/freeze cycles and the snow is crunchy and can bear some weight. Hiking on consoldiated snow with the right-size snowshoes is amazing because you are barely sinking in at all and the walking on top of the snow eliminates the roots, rocks, hobblebrush, etc [think Legolas]

Towards the end of the winter, the snow really starts to melt and becomes rotten and the water crossings become more interesting. blah ! At that point, I either head farther north (Maine) or start hiking down south (Conn)

[colorado_rob]

Yeah I intend to buy the tails just in case. Thanks for the input, at least now I won't have to worry about buying and lugging around crampons. Thanks a lot.

I really would consider looking into those Katoola Microspkes I mentioned, and was mentioned again above. I think they are only a pound, and $60. Those with your Evo ascents and you can cover a lot of varying snowy terrain. For example, wearing snowshoes in mixed rock/ice/snow is a pain and sometimes uncomfortable, and microspikes many times fit this terrain perfectly. I've found microspikes to be suitable for up to about 25-30 degree slopes (pretty steep), above that it's crampons and ice axe all the way. In fact, any slope where crampons are needed, an ice axe (and knowledge on how to use it) is as well IMHO. But I doubt you'll have this technical of terrain. Grab a pair and play around with them this Winter in NY.

http://www.rei.com/product/774966/ka...3-001b2166becc

[BFI]

Hmmm, I think I will skip the paid courses as I'm tight on money as it is, even if it is recommended. I will probably be training on the AT during winter which shouldn't be too dangerous and at the same time have the right environments I need to learn. I don't live too far from the AT.

What's your life Worth... you asked for advise and you've got the best answers a person could possibly get... You have NO experience and those that have answered have years of experience, learn from it. The AT is not the CDT. Late August you can get snow and rain mixed and that alone is a death sentence if you are not propared properly. Good Luck and take a winter hiking course.

[Rasty]

What's your life Worth... you asked for advise and you've got the best answers a person could possibly get... You have NO experience and those that have answered have years of experience, learn from it. The AT is not the CDT. Late August you can get snow and rain mixed and that alone is a death sentence if you are not propared properly. Good Luck and take a winter hiking course.

What you say is true. Timinator, you received advise from BrianLe, MAGS and 10K (Sorry I'm not familiar with the others hiking resume) who are three seriously experienced hikers. Listen carefully to what their advise is on this. There is a few places where mistakes can be costly and the CDT in winter is one of them.

[Timinator]

I appreciate all the advice. Sorry it if sounded like I was ignoring your advice but I wasn't, I know winter hiking is a serious issue and I intend to be prepared when I do it. I just wanted my original question to be answered first :P.

[Timinator]

In response to brians post I'm not starting the cdt in Wyoming. I'm simply doing a normal CDT run northbound. But I will be starting in New Mexico in july/august because my schedule doesn't allow sooner, and I have no desire to go southbound. As to the "is my life worth it?" comment. I guess this might be hard to understand if you're not the same way but I guess you can say one of my motto's is "live to die another day" I'm willing to take a little risk, I'm gunna die anyway right? I'm still thinking about buying micro spikes as well but I'm really dreading the extra weight, especially if my snowshoes can serve the purpose, I guess I'll have to find out this winter.

[Snowleopard]

Get the Hillsound Pro trail crampon rather than the Kahtoola microspikes. They are considerably more secure and only a little bit heavier and couple of dollars more. I love my microspikes, but last winter was so icy here that they weren't great when there was a little bit of a slope and my Camp Magix (like the Hillsound) were much better. Whether you'll need these, real crampons or none, or snowshoes, I'll leave to people more familiar with early winter experience in that region.

I would encourage you to contact people in the NYC AMC chapter and ask if there are free or cheap winter courses. I know the Boston AMC chapter has courses that are almost free (maybe $20 for a 5 week course).

[Timinator]

Yeah I'll look around. I guess I can ride out a state or two if I can find one that is cheap enough. I'm going to be putting my bank through the ringer this year so it's gunna have to be cheap if I want room to update my gear for the trip.

[BFI]

www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/Footwear/TractionDevices/PRD~5017-316/kahtoola-microspikes-traction-device.jsp these are not Crampons but will due a good job on slippery iced surfaces. Keep your feet dry, wet feet in below zero weather is not a pleasant experience.

[Timinator]

I looked at that boston amc thing and it seemed good until I saw that it was a bunch of auditorium lectures with some trips thrown in over the course of 2 months. Are there any programs in new england that are all in one go instead of split up, I can't exactly ride on over to boston every week or so.

[Snowleopard]

The Boston or NH chapter courses are good but aren't practical for someone living in NY. Where in NY are you, NYC?
Check out the NY/NJ/ or Mohawk/Hudson, etc chapters of AMC. http://www.outdoors.org/chapters/index.cfm Also, check out their trips. Winter trips and chapter courses probably aren't advertised yet, but any chapter contact person can probably put you in touch with someone who knows what will be happening in winter. Some of the trip leaders are very knowledgeable and could teach all of us a lot.
The weekend or all in one go AMC courses are usually at Pinkham Notch, NH, and are not real cheap (you usually end up having to stay at Pinkham Notch).

[BrianLe]

"I'm simply doing a normal CDT run northbound. But I will be starting in New Mexico in july/august because my schedule doesn't allow sooner, and I have no desire to go southbound."

Okay, this is clear. In which case I suggest that you re-think and go SOBO instead of NOBO. If you think there's any chance of doing a complete thru-hike, then I would far rather be walking into New Mexico in the dead of winter rather than Montana, and I'd just as soon not be walking through New Mexico in July/August.

OTOH, the highest elevations are in Colorado, and particularly in southern Colorado, so --- you're just screwed either way.

What I really suggest is that if you're firm on doing the CDT as your first long distance trip (which I don't recommend even without doing so in the winter), then do it in two or more pieces. I.e., hike a couple of states this year, then hike the other two next year, something like that. For me starting in early/mid-June last year going SOBO (it was a somewhat high snow year) was plenty crazy-dangerous as it was, and NOBOs I talked to ran into some serious fecal matter as well. My hiking partner almost died or at least could so easily have been seriously injured just our second day out (high creek crossing). We misjudged how tough going it would be in the Bob with snow and high creek crossings and so ran too low on food to keep going (had to do a somewhat dangerous bailout and road walk). Then getting out of southern Colorado I was smacked pretty hard by winter arriving all too suddenly in early October.
Even doing a complete thru-hike in a normal year, you really want to have some solid mountaineering experience, and especially so if doing it all solo.

My suggestion: plan to go south from the Canadian Border in July/August and walk as far as you safely and sanely can, perhaps as far as partway into Colorado, or stop somewhere like Rawlins WY. Then come back and do the rest another year.