Constant stream of patronizing comments from men

[Marta]

Ladies, does this happen to you, too?

i was passing through Polebridge last Saturday morning. Stopped at the Mercantile for a pastry. There was a guy there ten years older than I am who had just finished a multi-day hike starting at Kintla Lake. I had a backcountry permit for that night for Upper Kintla Lake.

The driving directions were unclear. I asked him which road to take to get to Kintla Lake. He quizzed me about my plans. Car camping? No, Backcountry permit. Kintla Lake? No, Upper Kintla.

He looked down his nose at me. "That's TWELVE MILES," he said. "You'd better stop at the Kintla campsite." Then he told me, with a similar tone of voice, that I'd have to drive on a single-lane road to get there, as if that might frighten me.

I mean, ***! This sort of thing happens constantly.

I had just finished the JMT and was coming DOWN Mt. Whitney, dancing from rock to rock in joy at how good I felt. Some random guy trudging uphill said, "You'd better slow down. You might hurt yourself."

I gave him a level look and replied, "You have no idea what I can do."

Is it just me? Am I particularly helpless/clueless-looking? Or do a lot of male hikers try to pump themselves up by giving unsolicited patronizing advice to every woman they run into? Or do they give lots of patronizing advice to male hikers as well?

Share your stories!

[coach lou]

Marta, the only thing YOU need to worry about is breaking your car axle going up that road to Kintla. I like the Sticky Buns at the Mercantile.

[Marta]

I ate a sticky bun and a huckleberry bear claw on the way out. :-)

[10-K]

You know.. I had something like this happen with a young woman on the Long Trail last month...

I was about 75 miles from the end, in a section where the Long Trail runs with the AT and it is easy hiking. I stopped at a shelter for a snack and a woman about 25 or so was there and we started talking.

She mentioned how hard the trail had been so far and I started explaining how the trail got much harder the further north she went. As we talk, I gave her suggestions and tips that I thought might be useful as part of the general conversation.

It was exactly the same conversation I would have had with a man.....

I wondered soon after I left if she thought I was offering suggestions because she was a woman and needed help..

[hikerboy57]

patronizing advice is not limited to ones sex.

[Marta]

It sounds as if she asked the questions and you answered them.

What makes sense to me is to get some sort of feeling for how much and what type of hiking the person you're talking to has done before. For instance, bears are a frequent source of concern for hikers in this area. Before launching into a lecture about bears, it's a good idea to find out if your conversation partner has just arrived from NYC, or if she is a backcountry ranger on her day off. There are definitely people who are seeking advice and just lap up anything a more experienced hiker will send their way.

I recall a story Stumpknocker told me from his fifth or sixth or whatever AT hike. He was in northern New England heading south and encountered a NOBO. The NOBO launched into a gear lecture, advising Stumpknocker that his pack and gear were obviously all wrong--he needed to replace them with what the lecturer had. "If you'd hiked as much as I have, you'd want this pack, too," the NOBO said. Stumpknocker agreed that if he'd hiked that much, that's probably what he'd want.

[Karma13]

I get mansplained to all the time, and not just about hiking. Also, age-splained. (As in, a certain proportion of strangers think I turned 50 and my brain fell out. The patronizing is second only to the fact that I've apparently become more invisible than I used to be.)

I love hearing other people's tips and tricks and information -- as long as it's offered with the assumption that I know what I'm doing, not that I need rescuing.

--Karma

[garlic08]

...I recall a story Stumpknocker told me from his fifth or sixth or whatever AT hike. He was in northern New England heading south and encountered a NOBO. The NOBO launched into a gear lecture, advising Stumpknocker that his pack and gear were obviously all wrong--he needed to replace them with what the lecturer had. "If you'd hiked as much as I have, you'd want this pack, too," the NOBO said. Stumpknocker agreed that if he'd hiked that much, that's probably what he'd want.

Good morning, Marta. Mags tells of a similar encounter in the Weminuche in CO, but it sounds like Stumpknocker's reply was wittier.

I haven't encountered it yet, but I expect to see similar "ageist" attitudes from younger hikers/climbers/cyclists as I get older.

I hate to admit it, but I think you're right about the sexism. I sort of see it in reverse when I'm on a solo trip and people ask me how I can convince my wife (GreasePot, AT'02, PCT'04) to "let me go". There's no way I'm going to convince them how courageous and adventurous she is, and how much she encourages and nearly pushes me to go.

I always love hearing about Polebridge--it was a bright spot on an otherwise wet dreary day on my PNT hike.

[HikerMom58]

Well, the only thing I can add to your post from experience on the trail is this- I, personally, was extremely nervous about hiking with my daughter before we set out to hike, 112 miles from Davenport Gap heading north. My husband was not at all concerned about our safety. (daughter was not worried) Once I got out there, my fears diminished greatly when we found a male hiking partner the first night out. I just feel better hiking with at least 1 other person with me and also the "male factor" gives me more security.
I was feeling very confident, the next morning, as I chatted with the passing hikers. One of the first hikers we spoke 2 was very friendly to us. As he was about to hike on, he turned to me and politely said, "Angel, I wouldn't be so friendly & chatty with everyone you meet on the trail". "Do not tell everyone your hiking plans for the day." "I'm a "good guy" but not everyone you meet out here can be trusted." (Would he have given that same advice to a male hiker?) He just confirmed everything I believed, myself, about female hikers on the trail. I think there are males out there that truly believe that we (females) are at a disadvantage/target b/c of our sex. It's sad to think that this may be true but only because of the male mentality, it has nothing to do with us as females. I have not taken steps to ensure that "they" can's mess with me so I do feel somewhat vunerable.

I'm a friend of a women's FB page for planning their 2013 thru hike. These women are some badarse women. There is one woman on there that chased down a bear that had stolen her pack. She got it back 2. Some are taking self defense classes. No one would want to mess with these gals. They are going out prepared, to say the least.


I know your post has more to do with appearing helpless/clueless. It may all be part of the same "male mentality". Whatever it is, it needs to be changed.

[The Solemates]

i wouldnt mess with you marta....

[Cary75]

I personally think this is more of a personality thing regarding the individual, rather than a reflection of you. My in laws are gloom and doom people and we have several times gotten into it with their nay-saying of our plans. I finally told my son not to tell his grandparents about our plans anymore, since I was sick of hearing about why we shouldn't carry them out.

I know it is frustrating when pessimists try to keep you down
Cary

[tdoczi]

Well, the only thing I can add to your post from experience on the trail is this- I, personally, was extremely nervous about hiking with my daughter before we set out to hike, 112 miles from Davenport Gap heading north. My husband was not at all concerned about our safety. (daughter was not worried) Once I got out there, my fears diminished greatly when we found a male hiking partner the first night out. I just feel better hiking with at least 1 other person with me and also the "male factor" gives me more security.
I was feeling very confident, the next morning, as I chatted with the passing hikers. One of the first hikers we spoke 2 was very friendly to us. As he was about to hike on, he turned to me and politely said, "Angel, I wouldn't be so friendly & chatty with everyone you meet on the trail". "Do not tell everyone your hiking plans for the day." "I'm a "good guy" but not everyone you meet out here can be trusted." (Would he have given that same advice to a male hiker?) He just confirmed everything I believed, myself, about female hikers on the trail. I think there are males out there that truly believe that we (females) are at a disadvantage/target b/c of our sex. It's sad to think that this may be true but only because of the male mentality, it has nothing to do with us as females. I have not taken steps to ensure that "they" can's mess with me so I do feel somewhat vunerable.

I'm a friend of a women's FB page for planning their 2013 thru hike. These women are some badarse women. There is one woman on there that chased down a bear that had stolen her pack. She got it back 2. Some are taking self defense classes. No one would want to mess with these gals. They are going out prepared, to say the least.


I know your post has more to do with appearing helpless/clueless. It may all be part of the same "male mentality". Whatever it is, it needs to be changed.

in the same post you speak of not liking males treating you as inferior and also talk about how much safer you feel when you have a man around.

[HikerMom58]

in the same post you speak of not liking males treating you as inferior and also talk about how much safer you feel when you have a man around.

Yes, I know that sounds conflicted and I am. Just sharing my thoughts..... I don't feel like I'm prepared to protect myself when I'm out there. (my bad) I am a lil bitter about feeling like more of a "target" than a male. So, I find myself in a "needy" position, when it comes to feeling safe. I realize not all females feel like I do. I admire them.

YOu also have to realize I don't have a lot of "trail miles" under my belt yet. I feel more confident the more I'm out there.

[Ender]

Or do they give lots of patronizing advice to male hikers as well?

If it's any comfort, men get this as well. I'd say every time I'm out for a weekend hike, especially if I'm alone, some weekend warrior will lecture me about how I'm not carrying enough stuff, or I'm carrying too much stuff, or watch out because it's steep and I may get hurt, etc etc etc.

I have two tactics that work for me... first is just smile, nod, and move on. The second, and much more fun tactic is, lie through my teeth. "It's a rough road up to the trailhead? Oh don't worry, I'm a professional rally car race driver, I can handle it."

[max patch]

"Do not tell everyone your hiking plans for the day."

Thats common sense advice regardless of gender.

[tdoczi]

Yes, I know that sounds conflicted and I am. Just sharing my thoughts..... I don't feel like I'm prepared to protect myself when I'm out there. (my bad) I am a lil bitter about feeling like more of a "target" than a male. So, I find myself in a "needy" position, when it comes to feeling safe. I realize not all females feel like I do. I admire them.

YOu also have to realize I don't have a lot of "trail miles" under my belt yet. I feel more confident the more I'm out there.

and this is why i feel the condescension problem still exists... there are still plenty of women in the world, who at least under the right circumstances, feel that they are inferior and act as such. i'm not going to even try to get into reasons as to why this may be so.

i understand the lack of trail experience, but would an experienced female partner had made you feel safer?

[LadybugPicnic]

I'm a friend of a women's FB page for planning their 2013 thru hike. These women are some badarse women. There is one woman on there that chased down a bear that had stolen her pack. She got it back 2. Some are taking self defense classes. No one would want to mess with these gals. They are going out prepared, to say the least.

Ha! That would be me and yes, this is a true story...what can I say? It was an expensive pack!

So, I have a funny story for you - I am pretty active outdoors - rock/ice climber, skier, hiker/backpacker, metal detectorist (okay, so not exactly a "sport," but it is fun and it is outdoors!), you get the picture, I stay pretty fit. I was on the edge of our property, next to the driveway of my neighbor, whom I had never met, when he drove up in his white truck. He stopped to say hello and introduced himself as Mike. He then noticed the energy drink I had in my hand (I rarely drink them, just needed a little lift that day) and launched into a tirade about how if I was an athlete like him, I would never put something like that in my body. He then went on to talk about how he rides his bike all the time and what good shape he is in, blah blah blah. I was surprised at someone who didn't even know me to assume that I was inactive just because of what I was drinking at the moment. I politely nodded my head and then bid him a good evening. He was still in his truck and started to head down his driveway and drove his truck straight into one of the metal poles that stood on either side of his drive. I heard the metal crunch sound and turned around to see what was happening. He, obviously embarrassed, peeled his tires out backing out, and then peeled his tires out again as he drove down his driveway. Karma is a you-know-what. I nicknamed him "White Truck Mike."

So, people make assumptions all the time and I get underestimated quite often. That's okay, because I do my own thing and feel no need to correct people's assumptions. My actions speak louder than my words.

I do believe that women are more of a target then men - we are smaller and less strong - and that we should be prepared and able to defend ourselves if need be. This is just a fact - nothing against men, I know that bad things happen to them as well. I am not paranoid and I don't want to live in fear, just good to have an awareness and be prepared so as not to become a victim. Confidence is important.

[HikerMom58]

Humm... I hear ya. You could be on 2 something. I don't want this thread to turn into helping HikerMom with her "fear issues." I was hiking with my daughter who is very experienced. I still felt vunerable. Just so you know, I've never been seriously threatened by a male, in my life, so there's nothing there.

I do give off a friendly warm vibe to everyone I meet, so I've had my share of unwanted attention from males because of that vibe. Now, that I think about it that is prob. why the male hiker "warned" me. It's prob. something that I "learned" in my life. If there's another "welcome male" around me the "unwanted" ones won't mess with me.

If a male out there was in2 making condescending remarks to females, I would be a great target. I don't understand why they feel the need to do it though other than good ole human nature/issues. There's always something to be said about making others feel inferior so you don't have to feel so much that way yourself. I'm sure that's why Marta received the remarks she did and why other females have to put up with this crap. We are seen as "easy targets" some more than others... grrr..

I also feel the best way to make a change, is to start with ME. Like you said, tdoczi, there are still plenty women in the world, who at least under the right circumstances, feel like they are inferior and act as such. I AGREE. Sooo the change needs to start with ME. I like working on personal growth issues in myself. I'll add this one to the list...ahhhh!! Thanks tdoczi, your comments are understood and heard. I can't wait to hike and put it in2 practice.


Ha Ha... LadybugPicnic... you rock!!! Love your story and I can't wait to meet you all.

[Moose2001]

[QUOTE=Marta;1337301]Am I particularly helpless/clueless-looking? Or do a lot of male hikers try to pump themselves up by giving unsolicited patronizing advice to every woman they run into? Or do they give lots of patronizing advice to male hikers as well?QUOTE]

Hey Marta - good question. My answer is there are people who just love to give unsolicited and patronizing advice to anyone and everyone they meet. There are people, both on the trail and off, who go through life validating their existence by tearing down others. Sad...but true. I've had similar experiences as Stumpknocker where someone wants to tell me what and how much to carry despite having 4 thrus under my belt. I just smile and tell them my pack is none of their business and they need to learn what the true meaning of "Hike Your Own Hike" is. I've also learned that nothing shuts up the know-it-alls faster than blowing by them on an uphill. I get past them and laugh as loud as possible.

[Pendragon]

I'm a "vertically challenged" male (I know this because anybody an inch taller than me makes a point to remind me of my affliction) who will be using an external frame pack which makes him look like a small mountain with a couple of short legs sticking out the bottom. Yes, I am fully aware of pack size/type/weight versus my own size and will make the best of it I can but I know I'll be getting the lectures from the gram weenie gurus. I share your pain. I'll just do what I've done all my life.....smile at them and keep on truckin'.