It's official, I'm going UL... help!

[wonderlust]

After backpacking for a year with the cheapest, but functional, gear I can find, I upgraded to lightweight gear earlier this year.

I went from:
4lb Walmart tent
2lbs 3oz Jansport Klamath 55 (bought for $20 off craigslist)
3lbs 13oz Slumberjack Solera 15 bag ($40 off Campmor)
1lb Stainless steel cup and a giant wood burning stove
no pad

to
30oz Tarptent Moment
3lbs 6oz 2012 Osprey Aura 65
2lbs 13oz Big Agnes Roxy Ann 15
3oz pocket rocket and 7.8oz Optimus Weekend Terra Cookset
30.5oz Pacific Outdoor Equipment Cruiser Mountain pad

While the total weight of each is comparable, I thought that it was a decent trade, since the new gear was a lot better in terms of quality. The Jansport pack was really beaten up with holes and fraying threads and the Slumberjack ripped after the zipper snagged.. the first night I used it.

I am not a thru hiker nor a section hiker. As of right now, the longest trip I do is a three nighter. I am still in school and so I don't have the time (or the means) to hike and backpack as much as I want to. All of my hikes are in Harriman State Park/Bear Mountain in NY (I don't have a car so I have to take the train or bus).. which means my hikes are pretty safe in terms of being close to towns with supermarkets/delis/banks/hospitals/etc, the large number of hikers nearby, and cell phone reception pretty much everywhere. So I thought I would try to cut more weight since I don't really even need anymore than basic necessities. Plus, it'll be good training for when I do attempt the AT

So far, I have swapped out my pack, pad and bag for the ULA CDT, the ZLite (which I will cut down a few panels), and the Kelty Cosmic Down 20 (for 100 shipped). I plan on keeping the TT Moment, since I've only used it for a single night and fell in love with it. I've made a SuperCat and plan on carrying a couple of ounces of Heet, the pot will either be titanium or maybe one of zelph's flat bottom Foster's can. I reckon the weight savings will be substantial.

21oz ULA CDT
35oz Cosmic Down 20
30oz TT Moment
10oz ZLite
.7oz SuperCat
.9oz zelph's 2cup flat bottom Foster's OR 4.8oz 700mL titanium cup
97.6oz (6.1lbs!!!) with zelph's Foster's can (more with the titanium)

I know, I haven't added everything else, like clothes or fuel, but it should still be under 10 lbs in total.

What do you think? I can use some feedback on this. UL isn't cheap and I have to make the best of the things I can afford.. The CDT and the Moment are used, the Cosmic Down on sale and paid for with the help of coupons, and the ZLite I caught on SAC for $5 cheaper than anywhere else. From the looks of it, the only thing I have to pay full price for is the Foster's can lol.

[RodentWhisperer]

The way I've heard it before is, "Cutting pounds is cheap, cutting ounces is expensive." I think you're on the right track, though-- balancing weight with cost. Look on going fully UL as being an ongoing challenge (I know I do).

[Zippy Morocco]

Welcome to the club. UL is a fun hobby. I think what might be helpful is for you to completely pack your bag for a trip. You can do this virtually on geargrams.com. Then post that list. A lot of weight can be reduced in the little things. Though some of those do get expensive. You off to a good start.

[Leanthree]

Another incentive for lightweight without a car is you can do more mileage between two public transit accessible places rather than doing an out and back or a loop hike to the same train. Opens up options.

[q-tip]

Here is my Lightweight Kit--15.5 lbs total and I added the costs....

Base Gear List-7
Big Three:	Base Kit	Wt. Saved	Cost
Granite Gear Crown 60	35.50	4.50	$200
o Cuben Pack Cover-	1.00	2.50	$55
· TT Contrail	33.00	0.00	$200
o Ground Cloth-	1.70	2.30	$8
o Stakes (10)-	4.00		$35
o Stuff Sack-	0.00	1.50	$20
· WM Alpinlite 20 Degree Down Bag	36.30	11.00	$465
o Stuff Sacks	0.00		$0
· Thermarest Neo Air	14.00	0.00	$130
Pad Stuff Sack	0.70		$0
Bear Vault
Total:	126.20		$1,113
	7.89
Clothing (Carried)
· MB Wind Pants-	3.10	4.00	$90
· Marmot Mica Jacket-	7.00	4.00	$140
· Marmot Dri-Climb Vest	6.20	6.20	$100
· Mont Bell Down Camp Jacket-	6.60		$160
· Silk Lite Weight Sleep Shirt-	2.80	4.00	$24
· Silk LiteWeight Sleep Leggings-	0.00	3.00	$24
· Sleep Socks (1)-Wool	2.60	1.00	$4
· Hiking Socks (X-tra-1)-	2.60		$5
· Sock Liners (X-tra-1)-	1.00		$5
· Nike Hiking Leggings-	4.70	1.50	$50
· Fleece Hat (1)-	0.00		$10
· Running Gloves	1.00		$30
Camp Gloves	1.00		$5
· Garbage Bag Rain Shirt-	0.00	0.00	$0
· Stuff Sack-	0.80		$25
· Sunglasses	2.00		$40
· Dirty Girl Gaiters	1.20		$20
· Mesh Camp Shoes	0.00	6.50	$10
· Pillow Cover	1.70		$25
Balaclava	0.00		$10
Bandana	1.00	0.00	$3
Rubber Rain Gloves	0.00		$4
Camp Shoes	9.00		$15
Total:	45.30		$799
	2.83
	30.20
Hygiene/Medical/Emergency/Stuff
· Tooth Brush-Toothpaste	2.00		$3
· First Aid Kit-	1.20		$10
o Medical Tape-	-
o Gauze-1 Roll-	-
o 3 Band Aids-	-
o 3 Alcohol Wipes-	-
o Tweezer-
· Toilet Paper-	1.00		$1
· Hand Sanitizer-	1.00		$1
· Vitamin I-	0.00		$10
· Medications-	7.00
· Sun Screen-	0.00		$2
· Lip Balm-	0.00		$1
· Duct Tape-	1.00		$4
· Emergency Kit-	2.00		$8
o Needle-Thread-	-
o Safety Pins (4)-	-
o Tent-Pad Repair Kit-	-
Bladder Parts
· Bic Lighter (1)-	0.40		$1
· Waterproof Matches (1 Box)-	0.30		$3
· Spare Batteries-	0.00		$5
· Pen-Paper-	0.50		$0
· Head Lamp-	3.00		$40
· Trail Maps-	0.00		$25
· Deet-	1.00		$3
· Extra Plastic Bags-	1.00		$0
Food Bags
Garbage Bag-Grocery Bags	1.00
Stuff Sack	1.40		$25
Total:	23.80		$142
	1.49
Cook System:
· Soto Stove + Windscreen	3.30		$65
Windscreen-Alcohol
· Stuff Sack (Stove)-	0.80		$0
· Fuel (4 oz)-	7.00	0.00	$4
· Cook Pot-	4.80		$26
Pot Cozy	1.90		$0
· Spoon- (2)	1.50		$5
· Stuff Sack (Food)-	1.60		$25
· Bear Rope-	1.20	1.20	$0
· Towel-	0.50		$5
· Pot Stabilizer	1.00		$8
Total:	23.60		$138
	1.48
Water Treatment:
· Steri Pen w/ Batteries-Case-	4.60		$125
Spare Batteries	1.00		$10
· Aqamira Tabs	0.50		$6
· Nalgene UL Water Bottle (1)-	3.00	1.00	$6
Nalgene Soft Bottle	2.00		$8
· MSR Bladder (80 oz)-	6.20	2.80	$25
Total:	17.30		$180
	1.08
Wearing:
· Ex Officio Long Sleeve Shirt-	7.10		$30
· Running Shorts-	3.20		$25
· Hiking Socks-	2.50		$4
· Sock Liners-	0.90		$3
· Hiking Poles-Leki-	19.40		$125
· Montrail AT + Train Runners	29.00	15.00	$75
Olympus Tough TG-320	6.00		$150
· Knife/Whistle/Compass-	1.40		$35
· Heart Rate Monitor-	3.20		$200
· Knee Brace	6.00	0.00	$30
Ankle Brace	8.00		$90
· Running Hat-	2.00		$20
Total:	88.70		$787
	15.00
Electronics:
· MP3/Headphones/Charger-	3.00		$85
· Cell Phone/Charger	4.30		$60
Camera Charger	2.30		$20
Total:	9.60		$165
Other:
· Ditty Bag-	1.20		$12
o Credit Cards (2)-	1.00
o Cash-	-
o Drivers License-	-
o Insurance Card-	-
o Phone Card-	-		$25
o Extra Reading Glasses (1)-	0.70		$10
o Emergency Numbers-	0.00		$0
Total:	2.90		$47
	0.18
Total Cost:			$3,371
Food-Water
Water Carried-	33.00
Food-5 Days-1.5 Lbs/Day (26 OZ.)	130.00
Totals:	163.00
Grand Totals:
		Saved
Base Weight In Pack:	248.70	72.00
	15.54	4.50
Weight Worn:	88.70
Skin-Out Base Weight:	352.94
Weight Pack+Food+Water	411.70
Total Skin Out Weight:	500.40
Total Skin Out/Body Weight:	2900.40	45.00
	181.28	2.81

[RodentWhisperer]

After seeing q-tip's post, I was reminded of Erik the Black's gear lists: http://blackwoodspress.com/blog/ . The lists are all of first-class gear, with base weight varying between 8 and 15 lb. Plus, the cost of each item is shown. Getting access to them means signing up for Erik's email subscriptions, but that's free.

[lvnv1212]

The best source I have found ofr UL equipment is zpacks http://zpacks.com/

[skinewmexico]

UL is a process, that never really ends. You will have to constantly re-evaluate to find the products that weigh the least while doing the job you need done. Might not always be the lightest thing around. For example, I could never use a Z-lite, I have to have an air mattress, or I don't sleep. You're off to a good start though.

Save your pennies. The Kelty is a well thought of bag (from the BPL review at least), but you could save a pound or two pretty easy there. I just found a great deal on a Nunatak Arc Ghost I'm pretty pumped about.

[colorado_rob]

UL is a process, that never really ends. ...

I hear this, and I have fallen into this trap, but I'm trying to escape. I realized recently that a base pack weight of 8 pounds vs. 12 pounds means very little in practice, at least for me. Anything less than 20 pounds total weight (incl. food) is barely noticeable, at least for me, assuming you have a comfortable pack. So I'm basically trying to stop the madness at my current base pack weight of 11 pounds or so, depending on conditions. Just my $0.02.

[DaleW]

As others wrote, it is an ongoing process. The changes you have in mind for your "Big Three" are in the right direction. It is time to get a digital scale and weigh *everything* and know the exact weights of each item and the total. Enter it all into a spreadsheet and see where you can improve on weight and the number of items you are including.

The basic process of going UL is something like this:

Take only what you will actually use.

Weigh everything and make a spreadsheet.

Seek items that have multiple uses.

Seek items that will deliver high performance at low weight.

Create a well coordinated system of clothing.

Know why you are carrying each item, what the function of it is and how it coordinates with your other gear. Think systems.

Know how you body works in terms of diet, temperature maintenance and endurance.

Strive to understand the weather, animal behaviors and plants.

Knowledge and understanding reduces fear. Fear and ignorance cause us to pack more than is needed and items that duplicate function or don't coordinate with the rest of our kit.

Leave concepts and habits like fashion, fresh changes of clothing and sleepwear behind in the city. Be prepared to think outside the box and keep your mind open.


Once you know what the heavy items are and where you need to work on system coordination, you can begin to chip away at the changes, replacing items as they wear out and as you find bargains.

It doesn't need to be done overnight. You will find things that work your personal needs and will find a base weight that suits you and the conditions and terrain you want to hike and camp in.

Have fun!

[Old Hiker]

DaleW - great post. But do I really have to coordinate all my clothing? I have to worry about the colors now????

Seriously - it's what I've started to do as well, esp. the fear factor. This caused me to pack much too much food!

[DaleW]

DaleW - great post. But do I really have to coordinate all my clothing? I have to worry about the colors now????

Seriously - it's what I've started to do as well, esp. the fear factor. This caused me to pack much too much food!

I knew I would get grief for writing "coordinated." (grin)

Getting a good selection of UL clothing was the most difficult part of gear selection for me. People vary so much in metabolism and temperature tolerance. Regional variations in climate are another factor. When you read gear lists and reccomendations from others, these factors need to be considered. Fear can add more clothing weight, along with "city habits" like wanting clean underwear every day or separate sleep clothing.

I've seen some odd reactions to mentioning fear and interpreting it as cowardice. If we have "concerns," that is fear--- fear of weather, getting lost, or in your example, running out of food. Study and planning are the best cures. You can apply the multiple use and performance factors to get the weight of those "fear factor" items in line.

One technique I left out: decant items like insect repellent and sunscreen to the smallest container for the trip at hand. You don't need a 3oz bottle of DEET for a three day trip! I have shaved a half pound off some gear lists with that one simple technique and it only costs a couple dollars. Getting 8oz off my sleeping bag might cost $300.

[keepinitsimple]

You are in a great position. Before you start spending any more money, research hard on the home made , dual use stuff. For cooking- fuel tabs can't be beat. You don't need titanium stuff either- small UL metal pots can be found at the local salvation army thrift. You do not have to be rich to go UL. learn the way of home made and thrift store UL now, before you become addicted to REI, EMS etc. Don't forget Craig's list as a resource for people dumping quality gear. Don't get caught up in hiker fashion either- walmarts polypro is fine for me. All of the technical fibers have generic knock-offs. Bottom line is some day you may have 3 kids, 2 cars and a mortgage- and you probably won't be able to afford Patagucci etc then anyway. Good luck and keep on hiking.

[skinewmexico]

Ever want to cut the weight of your bag, you might look at quilts from Enlightened Equipment. Great value for what you're getting.

[HermesUL]

If you want to really start cutting pounds (and ounces) don't do it incrementally. You won't lose any functionality and can also save money getting a much lighter sleeping bag, pad, and pack. Get off the beaten path, consider some small manufacturers. Sacrifice COMFORT incrementally if you are uncomfortable, but with things like buying a lighter pack, its best to cut to the chase.

Here are some easy ideas:
Golite adrenaline 3 season - 26 oz, $200 (currently out of stock)
Osprey Hornet 46 - 23 oz, $110

Pad options
Inflatable - Thermarest X-lite or X therm, depending on conditions
Foam - go with a thick pad for now, from Gossamer Gear or Lawson Equipment. These will cost probably under $30 and weigh less than 1/3 of what your current pad does.

At this point, you're moving in the right direction but could potentially lose 4-5 lbs of pack weight without sacrificing comfort at all.

[tammons]

I look at it more like half and half. You are at a 6# big 4 so will probably end up at 12# base weight.
Also volume is an issue and you have to keep that down.

Going under 6# for big 4 is doable at a cost and pretty easy.
Lighter big 4, 2.5 xp or down quilt - 14oz (warmer weather) Down 20dF quilt 21oz, small xlite+GG 1/8 pad - 11oz, poly cro GC - 1.5oz, Cuben tarp w stakes - 8oz, SUL pack - 14oz, dry bag - 1.5oz etc.

You can MYOG a quilt. 2.5XP and M55 is around $100 and good to 45-50dF and weighs about 14oz depending on the size.
A MYOG pack is not that bad either. Its basically just a bag with straps.
The big 4 above with an XP quilt would weigh about 3#.
Change the tarp to a Hexmid and add a few oz but you have bug protection.

The real challange to me is the other equipment for 3 season.
Still you can hit 9-10# base 3 season pretty easy.
If you go double use equipment then you can go a little lighter.
Cuben Poncho tarp, use quilt for a jacket etc

I have a pretty simple very minimal setup hovering around 8#.
Could probably get down to 6-7 with cold food and a lot of cuben.

If you want to see the list I will post.

[hikergurl]

I agree. And really, the gear is really only half the battle. Where I really started cutting oz. was in all the "toiletries" type stuff and the first aid kit. I reduced the number of bandages I carried and beefed up the kinesio tape (for blisters, cuts, etc.). Otherwise, I just carry pepto, benadryl, antibiotic cream, and a full bottle of Advil