Tarping without trekking poles

[SCRUB HIKER]

I would like to hear from people who primarily use a tarp as their shelter but do not hike with trekking poles. I've been having uncontrollable thoughts of buying a tarp, probably an A-frame like the MLD Grace Solo or Gossamer Gear SpinnTwinn (if/when the latter is available again). I'll get some sort of bivy too but I haven't decided on that. Anyway, I do not hike with trekking poles and I would therefore have to get a set of either aluminum or carbon-fiber tent poles to support the tarp. Either that, or relying on nature to provide the pole (something I'm not interested in ... I'd rather have a little more freedom in site selection).

I'm concerned about being able to vary the height of my pitches to accommodate different weather conditions. With collapsible trekking poles, this is obviously less of an issue, but with a fixed-length tent pole? You can't tie a guyline half-way up one of them if you want to lower your ridgeline, or can you? Also, in general, I have a hard time imagining a CF tent pole being sturdy enough to hold up a tautly-pitched tarp in windy conditions.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Scrub

[Feral Bill]

I've used tarps without a trekking pole a lot. Just pick up a nice stick and pitch one corner up, three down. Lately I've taken to one hiking pole, I use it with whatever's around as supplements. There are always sticks in the woods.

I would like to hear from people who primarily use a tarp as their shelter but do not hike with trekking poles. I've been having uncontrollable thoughts of buying a tarp, probably an A-frame like the MLD Grace Solo or Gossamer Gear SpinnTwinn (if/when the latter is available again). I'll get some sort of bivy too but I haven't decided on that. Anyway, I do not hike with trekking poles and I would therefore have to get a set of either aluminum or carbon-fiber tent poles to support the tarp. Either that, or relying on nature to provide the pole (something I'm not interested in ... I'd rather have a little more freedom in site selection).

I'm concerned about being able to vary the height of my pitches to accommodate different weather conditions. With collapsible trekking poles, this is obviously less of an issue, but with a fixed-length tent pole? You can't tie a guyline half-way up one of them if you want to lower your ridgeline, or can you? Also, in general, I have a hard time imagining a CF tent pole being sturdy enough to hold up a tautly-pitched tarp in windy conditions.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Scrub

[Wise Old Owl]

Wouldn't nature provide the sticks? The knots on wood would be adjustable.

[T.S.Kobzol]

I have been backpacking since first grade but my first tent purchase was in my 20's. Growing up in the Czech Republic we carried a sleeping bag and two tarps, Usually the shelter consisted of spreading one tarp and placing sleeeping bag on top of it to protect it from ground moisture. The second tarp went on top like a blanket. If it was raining, the second tarp got pulled over on top while the sleeper stayed in the middle. No pads, no poles, no setup.

I want to sound like a GOM (Grumpy Old Man) but I know many Tramps today in the Czech Republic who still camp that way.

[T.S.Kobzol]

Actually some only carry one tarp if the forecast is right. Since the village is usually less than 5 miles away, there is always time to walk to safety, but being under thick trees in mild frizzle you could last a few hours until your sleeping bag is soaked to the point of no return.

[skinewmexico]

I have been backpacking since first grade but my first tent purchase was in my 20's. Growing up in the Czech Republic we carried a sleeping bag and two tarps, Usually the shelter consisted of spreading one tarp and placing sleeeping bag on top of it to protect it from ground moisture. The second tarp went on top like a blanket. If it was raining, the second tarp got pulled over on top while the sleeper stayed in the middle. No pads, no poles, no setup.

I want to sound like a GOM (Grumpy Old Man) but I know many Tramps today in the Czech Republic who still camp that way.

We did that when I was a kid, but in Texas/New Mexico.

[Mr Breeze]

I used a 10x10 tarp on my thru hike this year. And i used a 30ft ridgeline and stakes to set it up. The ridgeline allowed me to adjust the height of each end, and when i attached the tarp to the ridgeline and staked it out, it was solid. Never had a problem with it in some strong storms, always stayed in place and kept me and my gear dry.

[bubonicplay]

1 stick and a half pyramid.

[Dogwood]

Couple of thoughts. I don't normally hike with trekking poles yet a tarp is my preferred goto shelter of choice even during mild winter weather treks. Sure, I could use a stick to set up A-frame style but sticks are not always readily available. The "use a stick" idea may work on the AT where sticks are readily available and I have AT shelters to fall back on but what happens if I want to set-up on a beach or above treeline or on some other trail where proper length and strength tarp sticks may be hard to come by? That's why I would recommend purchasing dedicated tarp poles preferably something like the UL CF poles sold by Mountain Laurel Designs (28" rear pole, 42" front pole, they break down into a 16" long package, the shorter one breaks down in two and the longer tri-folds, they are strong but do flex some especially the longer one, 2.6 oz for the pair, about $50) or go with UL trekking poles and use tautline, girth, or half hitches tied to the ridgeline at the front and rear entrances of your tarp. I believe that Ron Bell(owner and builder of MLD gear) tells it like it is and that includes no hidden wt or advertising gimmicks or misleading info. I have used the MLD CF poles to set up my tarps on countless ocassions. I have found no lighter wt well made dedicated UL CF tarp poles as these! They have never failed me! If you are overly concerned about the flexing in the longer tarp pole you could shorten it a bit by cutting it down slightly(use a sharp fine bladed hacksaw or something similiar) and expoxying the cut end closed or epoxying a small Ti threaded bolt into the cut end. The cut end is what comes in contact with the ground. I did this. More on that.

BTW, if you opt for the GG SpinnTwinn or other manufacture's tarp AND the MLD CF tarp poles inquire if the nibs on the ends of MLD poles lock into your brand tarp's ridgeline tie-outs. I would double check but I'm pretty sure the MLD poles fit the ridgeline tieouts/grommets of the Spinn Twin.

Setting up the height of the ridgeline in a lower configuartion is easi
IMHO, both tarps you are considering are UL, well made, and easy to set up. They are both great choices in a tarp! Both MLD and GG are reputable reliable UL cottage gear manufacturers that have reputations for providing excellent customer service. I've slept under both tarps you are considering many times with different kit set-ups and under different weather scenarios. Both tarps have catenary cut ridgelines that make it easier to get a taut pitch in the Aframe configuration but limit the types of configurations you can set them up. Basically I always have set up either one using the Aframe configuration

The MLD Grace SOLO is a smaller sized tarp hence the extremely ridiculous low wt especially in the litest wt tarp fabrics currently available like cuben fiber. It provides less coverage than the SpinnTwinn or other larger sized MLD slightly tarps. That's an important pt because since you are just starting out tarping(ther's a learning curve to climb with all new types of gear!) and don't yet have a bivy a greater coverage tarp may be what you will do better with, at least initially! My advice is to not get too caught up with losing the few ozs by going to the smallest or minimalist sized tarp at first. Save that for later if you decide tarping is for you. There are pros and CONS with the lightest wt tarps that you should not lose sight of considering your sitiuation and needs. Think trade-offs. This applies to tarp fabrics too. My advice is to not get too hung up at first with the differnt types of UL tarp fabrics available. Stick with the spinnaker fabric of the SpinnTwinn or get a tarp manufactured with something like 30 D silny. Both these fabrics strike an excellent compromise for your situation and don't cost a fortune. The 30 D silny is aless expensive fabriv than spinnaker though. My advice is to wait on spending the extra do re mi on a more expensive customized sized or specialty fabric tarp until you learn more about tarping, your needs, and what's available.

The Gossamer Gear SpinnTwinn is a great tarp too. It's a spinnaker fabric tarp. It' larger than the MLD Grace SOLO though, meaning it will provide greater coverage, which is important in inclement weather, but it's a bit heavier than the SOLO(tarpers are often tarping becasue they are gram weenies). And, since you specifically asked, the additional coverage makes it easier to pitch a tarp in the Aframe configuration higher(more on that) AND still get adequate coverage AND/OR possibly go with no bivy OR have a dog or another person shelter underneath it too! Read GG's advertising for the SpinnTwin. In my experience, which includes proper campsite and set-up selection, I've stayed dry and comfy in driving rain and snow w/o the additional bivy under the SpinnTwinn.

I'm a tall guy. I prefer to sit up under a tarp. I prefer not to have to crawl to get under my shelter. That sucks IMHO! That's why, unless I'm tarping in very inclement weather, and have to pitch a tarp with the sides down to the ground, I pitch my tarp higher in the A frame configuration when I can. I most often do it by guying the front entrance ridgeline tie out to a tree, boulder, fence post, corner of a structure, etc OR use that always available longer tarp stick and the longer MLD CF pole for the rear ridgeline tie out. The thing is you need to experiment with it as with all new gear you are adding to your kit.

Setting the height of the ridgeline in a lower a frame configuratiion is easier even with fixed height dedicated tarp poles or with fixed height trekking poles. Just position the poles further away from the front and rear entrances and guy out as approprate also taking into account that you have side guy outs or webbing loops to hold down the sides. Peruse some of the tarp pics at MLD and GG.


On another thread, because I know someone will bring it up, will go into bug protection when using a tarp. BTW, don't make the common mistake of confusing your tarp considerations with Henry Shires Tarptents(great shelters too!) which really are NOT the same trhing.

[Mountain Mike]

I used a campmoor 10' X 10' tent tarp for years, year round in all weather conditions. On AT a trekking pole is not needed. Just bring plenty of cord, learn how to tie a taunt line hitch. It has numerous tie outs & can be set up in a variety of ways. ON AT there were numerous times in bad weather where unprepared hikes bunked with me and many more that cooked with me. Campmor one here http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___22220. If you want UL http://www.tarpsplus.com/silnylon-tarp.html

[SCRUB HIKER]

Thanks Dogwood for that excellent reply. For the other people who said to just use a stick--I know what you're saying, but sometimes I guess there are just not enough sticks, especially out West on the PCT and CDT, which is where I plan to do a lot of my hiking in the next few years. I understand that with more minimalist gear comes greater responsibility regarding campsite selection, but I still want to give myself the freedom of camping far away from trees if that's what my energy level or the people I'm hiking with or my whims dictate for that day. And I should have specified that I'm looking at catenary-cut A-frame tarps in particular, rather than flat tarps, so the range of possible pitch shapes is lower.

I'm glad to hear your endorsement, Dogwood, of the MLD tent poles in windy conditions. I agree with your point that it's not worth spending the big money on cuben until I know what I'm doing with a tarp and know that I like it. It's also not worth spending big money on a piece of gear that, according to many reports, one may not even need very often on the PCT (Miner says he used his tarp less than ten times, Mags says seven, I heard people from this year say less than five). Nonetheless, since I live in Oregon, I can practice rainy pitches as often as I want until the spring regardless of which model I end up with.

Thanks all for the responses. If anyone has additional thoughts, throw 'em out here. If anyone wants to talk about what they've used for bug protection in conjunction with a SpinnTwinn or a Grace tarp, please do. I would desire a sub-10oz bug system that, in addition to actually working against bugs, 1) fits nicely under one of these tarps, 2) gives me enough room to read a book, and 3) can stand alone when rigged up with tarp poles/stakes but without the tarp overhead.

Scrub

[diyguy]

I always use trail sticks. With a clove hitch, you can adjust the height very easily.

[Dogwood]

...especially out West on the PCT and CDT, which is where I plan to do a lot of my hiking in the next few years.

I suspected a Triple Crowner in the making which is why I went into such detail. Thanks for the kind words Scrubby. I also saw where you stated you are from, Eugene Oregeon.

Set my tarp up 3-4 times on the PCT in 2008. I experienced rain/light snow a total of 4 -5 times on the entire PCT that yr. Spoils you for life, if you think you are going to do all multi month hikes and always experience that kind of favorable weather - uh no!

Both the SOLO and SPINN TWINN have hanger loops sewn into the underside(interior) of the ridgeline. You can also order tarps with extra hanger loops or if having one customized you can sometimes specify exactly where you want these loops to be attached. I bought some fragile Tulle fabric at JoAnns Fabric Shop. Attached a short UL bungee section and UL clip to the apex(top of the pyramid) of the Tulle fabric and clipped it to one of those interior ridgeline hanger loops. Think of a picture that you might have seen of a canopy bed with a bug netting drapping down from above like they use in S. America, Asia, or Africa. Each of the four corners(four corners at the base of the pyramid) of the Tulle are held down with a rock, small branch, small piece of gear, etc) that I place in a pocket I sewed in at each corner. I let the Tulle drape over the upper half of my body and my sleeping bag for my bug netting. Total cost was less than $20 with a wt of less than 4 ozs. More durable Nanoseeum netting could be used in lieu of the Tulle but that would cost more and besides, the Tulle, even after 1000's of trail miles and countless uses, still is in great shape with no holes, disintegration, etc. I can also hang the netting from alow tree branch if desired without the tarp.

[brooklynkayak]

Maybe bring a single UL carbon fiber trekking pole or walking stick?
I had a friend who never used trekking poles but brought one along on a hike to use with his tarp.
He ended up finding the trekking pole useful for things other than the shelter and now uses it for stream crossings and sometimes for steep descents or ascents to give him more stability.

I know I never carried one in the old days and always found ways to picth my tarp, even in the desert.

[middle to middle]

I tarped without poles for years. Lot of branches out there.

[SCRUB HIKER]

To anyone else tempted to post, "There are lots of sticks out there," I will remind them that this is where I might be using the tarp system in question: PCT-in-the-desert.jpg

I understand that I may not even have to use a tarp in the desert, but I am asking my question with the assumption that even out of the desert, sticks and branches will not always be available for me, and that I will need to carry some sort of tarp support in my pack. If this is an incorrect assumption for the PCT and CDT, I'm interested to know why. Brooklynkayak, I would be interested to know more about how you rigged tarp systems in the treeless expanses without any poles (did you even carry tent-poles?).

Thanks,
Scrub

[brooklynkayak]

Even in treeless expances there are ways to suspend a tarp. I never really worried about it because in arid desert environments, rain was rarely an issue. When it did rain, it usually wasn't much and my bedding would dry quickly the next day. I do understand the issue of those rare long wet storms. I was always able to find a rocky outcrop or stick of some kind. It can be a challenge.
Now I wouldcarry an ultalight adjustable trekking pole at least. There are some ver light ones out there and I'll bet you find other good uses fr it on the trail.

One good reason to cvarry a tarp in arid envirnments is as a wind block. It helps reduce the amount of sand you are going to be eating and breathing on a windy night.

[brooklynkayak]

Oh, and if you absolutely refuse to carry a hiking pole and don't wan't to worry about dealing findinding a way to suspend you tarp. You could bring along at least one tent pole.
To keep the weight down go for something like this, 2 oz:
http://sixmoondesigns.com/tents/68-c...-49q-pole.html

[SCRUB HIKER]

Yeah, my preferred option is bringing two lightweight tent/tarp poles, like the ones offered by MLD, SMD, GG, OMG, GTFO, whoever. My original question was for people who have used those poles (rather than trekking poles), whether they're really durable enough for a long hike or for setting up in serious wind, on rocky ground, etc.

[bubonicplay]

I'm curious how well those poles work too, and which one is the best?