Thinking ultralight....

[10-K]

I must confess I have a problem with the word "ultralight" but we all kind of agree on what it means so it's a good placeholder word.

Something I've been noticing a lot lately that I never picked up on before is a difference in the way people who pack light think.

I think "Do I want to take this OR that?"

People who tend to carry a heavier pack think: "I'm going to take this AND that."

3 times I've noticed it in the last 24 hours. People taking windshirts AND rain jacket. Filters AND Aqua Mira, Neoair AND sleeping pad.

My mind just doesn't work that way. I just accept that I can't have everything I'd like to have - I'm going hiking, not furnishing an apartment - so I don't grieve not having a bunch of extras.

Big Note: I'm only talking about me. Not judging what anyone else carries - not even a little. This is just an observation I've made.

[Rocket Jones]

In the case of the Neoair AND sleeping pad, the idea is for added (and needed) insulation during winter weather.

[Deacon]

For me, it only took one episode of hiking with a pack that was packed with "I'm going to take that", before I decided to hike with a pack that was packed thinking "can I get along without that".

My new thinking has shed 30% of the weight off my pack.

[10-K]

In the case of the Neoair AND sleeping pad, the idea is for added (and needed) insulation during winter weather.

I get that but I would never take a pad and a Neoair in the southern Apps. A regular Neoair is more than enough I've found.

And truth is, I'd be willing to accept some discomfort in exchange for not having to lug the extra weight and have something else to keep up with.

But.. I didn't mean to turn this into another anti-HYOH thread - carrying a pad and a Neoair (for ex.) is dandy too.

[RCBear]

But.. I didn't mean to turn this into another anti-HYOH thread - carrying a pad and a Neoair (for ex.) is dandy too.[/QUOTE]

I like this thread and and hope it will continue, but in its current tone. I think for those of us that tend to pack heavier there is a lot to be learned from those to pack lighter. for some I think it to can described as a real paradigm shift and that is probably why these topics tend to get a little heated. when I do long distance day hikes the need for LESS is very clear to me, however I have yet to string 2 of those together that would require an overnight. My multi night trips I guess could probably be described as more luxury laden and as a result my miles per day are in the 15 range.

I don't think I will ever have the desire to move into "ultralight", most likely because I am also a gadget guy and until I can shake that thinking, it will be hey prohibitive obstacle.

that being said, I am beginning to see not only the fun in, but the positive value in becoming lighter while still enjoying my evenings and mornings in camp. and that is probably where the biggest difference tends to lie in the two groups. the lighter guys like to get into camp later and leave earlier so that their feet are on the trail for a longer part of the day, which makes perfect sense. when not doing long day hikes, I tend to like all the nuances surrounding nights and mornings at camp and therefore end up having fewer daylight hours to hike.

of course my fear is that once I start to figure out how to lighten and enjoy the process, I will be coming is obsessive with it as I am with my gadget collecting... :P

thank you for the topic and for the "lightened" tone

[Mags]

I never did like the term of ultralight as well. Prefer the term minimalist...

But I also recognize that UL is a term easily understood and is a useful shorthand description.

Much like the term 'professional' that I also loathe that I also recognize as easily understood.
(E.g. "He's a young professional"...meaning, he works a white-collar office job. Even though he is often late, does shoddy work and makes others pick up his slack. Dad worked at a tool bench, so he was not a 'professional" despite his work ethic...but that's another discussion. )

[Stink Bug]

I must confess I have a problem with the word "ultralight" but we all kind of agree on what it means so it's a good placeholder word.

Something I've been noticing a lot lately that I never picked up on before is a difference in the way people who pack light think.

I think "Do I want to take this OR that?"

People who tend to carry a heavier pack think: "I'm going to take this AND that."

3 times I've noticed it in the last 24 hours. People taking windshirts AND rain jacket. Filters AND Aqua Mira, Neoair AND sleeping pad.

My mind just doesn't work that way. I just accept that I can't have everything I'd like to have - I'm going hiking, not furnishing an apartment - so I don't grieve not having a bunch of extras.

Big Note: I'm only talking about me. Not judging what anyone else carries - not even a little. This is just an observation I've made.

I pack both a windshirt AND rainjacket and, in winter I take my NeoAir Xlite and a Gossamer Gear Thinlite. I like that having both the windshirt and rainjacket give me more options but my pack (4 day weekend: fuel, food and 1L water) still weighs less than 10lb! Just food for thought...

[OzJacko]

I don't like to post in U/L forums generally as I consider myself far from U/L but this thread seems appropriate for some observations.
I do follow the posts a lot and admit to "sifting" U/L threads for good tips, but I will never go overly minimalist (I agree that's a better word).
I like the suggestion that the mindset of either/or instead of both is a sign of the U/L approach.
However what concerns me is the number of first time hikers that are determined to get their pack weights down to ridiculous levels.
To me, ultralight hiking (particularly long distance) is something that needs to be achieved in stages.
To go to the extremes requires a good understanding of what your own extremes are. e.g. Just because one person can be comfortable at x temperature with y rated bag or quilt doesn't mean everyone can.
I view true U/L hiking as something that is approached incrementally. It concerns me that there seems to be a paranoia among "newbies" to start at the lowest possible weight.

[Stink Bug]

I don't like to post in U/L forums generally as I consider myself far from U/L but this thread seems appropriate for some observations.
I do follow the posts a lot and admit to "sifting" U/L threads for good tips, but I will never go overly minimalist (I agree that's a better word).
I like the suggestion that the mindset of either/or instead of both is a sign of the U/L approach.
However what concerns me is the number of first time hikers that are determined to get their pack weights down to ridiculous levels.
To me, ultralight hiking (particularly long distance) is something that needs to be achieved in stages.
To go to the extremes requires a good understanding of what your own extremes are. e.g. Just because one person can be comfortable at x temperature with y rated bag or quilt doesn't mean everyone can.
I view true U/L hiking as something that is approached incrementally. It concerns me that there seems to be a paranoia among "newbies" to start at the lowest possible weight.

I agree with this 100%. I've been backpacking over 25 years and recently, have introduced a friend of mine to the sport. He went to REI and bought 1 of everything, plus the kitchen sink, without listening to any of my guidance. Even after doing a gear shakedown, his pack for 2 nights was still 35lb or so. Right now he has the paranoia you spoke of and he's trying to get his pack to the lowest possible weight. He spends more time on the Internet buying newer, lighter gear than he does out in the field testing the kit he has and building his skills.

[FarmerChef]

However what concerns me is the number of first time hikers that are determined to get their pack weights down to ridiculous levels.
To me, ultralight hiking (particularly long distance) is something that needs to be achieved in stages.
To go to the extremes requires a good understanding of what your own extremes are.

I couldn't agree more. When I started I remembered hiking with 35-50 pound packs in the boy scouts and college and vowed I would never again walk like a dinosaur in an old sci fi movie :P But getting to a UL weight took time and practice. Minimalism really is a better word to describe it and it captures both the pro and the con. Minimalism implies that you take the minimum gear necessary to hike at the lowest weight. But this doesn't mean you'll be comfortable or sometimes even safe. There's the rub. You don't really know until you try. If you just go out and buy $$$ worth of really expensive gear and then discover you don't like it, you're stuck rolling the dice on it's replacement. For instance, I started with two home depot tarps for top and ground cover. They worked well enough but wouldn't stretch and so billowed in the wind. The top tarp was also 10x12, something we discovered worked well for us after trying other size cheap tarps. When I was finally ready to pull the trigger on silnylon and Tyvek making that transition was easy. Could I do cuben? Sure. But the $$ and durability just aren't there for my needs. Someone who skips the intermediary steps and goes right out and buys one might find they don't like the size, or the shape, or tie outs, etc. In short, I highly recommend that folks learn their limits and then try to lighten their load in keeping with those limits.

[10-K]

Well again, I'm not trying to separate into categories of right and wrong. People are going to do what they're going to do.

A 10 pound pack has no more or less virtue than a 40 pound pack.

I think in the end pack weight is largely a reflection of contingency planning - preparing for what if scenarios.

We might need this, we might need that, better take this, better take that.

The decision to go ultralight came for me after an awareness I was doing that.

And for the sake of clarification, I'm talking about hiking with a destination in mind. Not hiking into the woods and sitting up a base station.

[10-K]

Snaps.... Could you email me your pack list? I might be able to pick up some tips.

Four days worth of food and a liter of water hits 10 pounds for me before I would even get to gear!

[Stink Bug]

Snaps.... Could you email me your pack list? I might be able to pick up some tips.

Four days worth of food and a liter of water hits 10 pounds for me before I would even get to gear!

Sure! This is the gear I took this past Thanksgiving weekend for a hike around the Old Loggers Path in PA. Nighttime temps were down to -4*C (or 25* in some weird, illogical system) with daytime highs around freezing (32*F): http://geargrams.com/list?id=10317

Hopefully thru-hiking the AT next year and this will form the basis of my cold weather kit. The only change likely will be to swap out the Murmur for a G4.

[10-K]

Thanks! This is how I learn.

[Stink Bug]

Thanks! This is how I learn.

My pleasure. Any questions on my gear choices, don't hesitate to ask

[quilteresq]

I'll be going lighter than I've ever gone before, but certainly not ultra light. I do worry about things like hypothermia, so I'll have enough clothes to be dry and warm at night. I made my wind pant set, and it's 6 oz for the jacket and pants. Well worth it not to have to sweat inside a rain jacket and pant set if it's only windy. My tarp is cuben, my stuff sacks are cuben (home made). I figure my shelter, hammock and quilts will weigh about the same as my last backpacking tent - which at the time I bought it was considered pretty light (late '80's.) I am trying to keep it all below 35 lbs - if I get lucky, it may be under 30, but my guess is I'll err on the side of caution with respect to a bit extra clothing for the beginning of the hike (GA - VA) and for NH and Maine.

Also, gotta have a way to shower - so drilling out that extra water bottle cap to make a "shower head" will be well worth the weight. I will never be able to go five days on the trail without washing up - that's just me.

[Starchild]

To me ultralight is the point where you start making inconvenient choices for weight savings at the expense of time and or comfort, such as more complex tarp tents, alcohol and wood stoves, and frameless packs.

The this or that (or) this and that mentality could exist on top of that, but that's not where I define ultralight YMMV

Peace

[Tipi Walter]

People who tend to carry a heavier pack think: "I'm going to take this AND that."

3 times I've noticed it in the last 24 hours. People taking windshirts AND rain jacket. Filters AND Aqua Mira, Neoair AND sleeping pad.

It's funny, I never take duplicate items like a windshirt and a rain jacket and yet my pack never goes much below 70 lbs unless I'm out for a short 5 day trip.

I get that but I would never take a pad and a Neoair in the southern Apps. A regular Neoair is more than enough I've found.

And truth is, I'd be willing to accept some discomfort in exchange for not having to lug the extra weight and have something else to keep up with.

Try your stand alone NeoAir on the frozen ground at -10F and see what happens.

[Tom Murphy]

And truth is, I'd be willing to accept some discomfort in exchange for not having to lug the extra weight and have something else to keep up with.

Your gear list should reflect what are your goals. I think the UL movement has been great in making that concept so well known.

I typically hike 4-8 miles into the forest & set up a base camp for a few days of exploring off-trail, taking photographs, and a lot of book reading. While that's a lot closer to car camp than it is to a hiking trip, I want to enjoy the hike in/hike out AND enjoy the time in camp equally. And I don't want to have to head back to the trailhead becuase of the weather or temperature either.

I consciously consider the weight of each item vs their purpose. I bring plenty of items that I know are luxuries and are not essential. To me, that is the spirit of being UL as opposed to a spefic pack weight.

[Tom Murphy]

1.Your gear list should reflect what are your goals.