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  1. #1
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    Default Fleece vs. Down insulating layer.

    I'm finalizing my gear list for my NOBO March 19th attempt and I'm a little stuck on my top insulating layer. I plan to have medium weight long underwear, a synthetic T-shirt and a thin rain shell (probably froggtoggs UL2), however, I can't decide between fleece or down for the last piece. I know down is the best insulation you can get for the weight, but it also has problems when wet and I'm on a tighter budget than I'd like.

    So my questions are, is down really that much warmer than a fleece shirt of comparable weight? Have people had problems keeping their down dry? I'd also love to see your recommendations on sub $100 down jackets or specific fleece tops.

  2. #2

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    In my opinon, a down jacket is much warmer than a fleece. I have a Marmot down sweater, which is about $150, and this worked great on my last trip. Really, a down jacket is for camp in the morning and evening, it's almost too warm to hike in. I also wrap the jacket in a shirt and use it as a pillow at night. If you go with down, my suspicion is that you will be very pleased to have it once the sun goes down on March 19th, and for many nights thereafter. You can store it in a waterproof stuff bag (possibly with your sleeping bag), and it should be fine in your pack during the day.
    (trailname: Paul-from-Scotland)

  3. #3
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    I'm interested in this also as I have found that both are needed as they work very differently. Fleece works well for hiking because it is very breathable and allows sweat or moisture to be removed and also keeps you warm. Down is not as breathable and not ideal for sweat, but is much warmer so ideal for camp and lunch stops.

  4. #4
    Registered User The Cleaner's Avatar
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    Down is warmer&lighter.Gotta keep it dry for camp&sleeping if needed.Maybe light weight fleece for hiking which could be used as another layer if really cold.....

  5. #5
    Hiker bigcranky's Avatar
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    Down is much warmer. +1 to the idea that you'd want both. I take a microfleece pullover quarter-zip top along with a down jacket in mid-March.
    Ken B
    'Big Cranky'
    Our Long Trail journal

  6. #6
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    It's a close call. The advantage with fleece is that when it is below freezing you can just leave it outside (attached to the tent or something else), and you can just brush of the snow and ice in the morning (also your sweat from from the day before). A combination would be best, having a fleece jacket under and a down jacket for camp and whenever you stop.

  7. #7
    Registered User moytoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oslohiker View Post
    It's a close call. The advantage with fleece is that when it is below freezing you can just leave it outside (attached to the tent or something else), and you can just brush of the snow and ice in the morning (also your sweat from from the day before). A combination would be best, having a fleece jacket under and a down jacket for camp and whenever you stop.
    Hmmm.... That's an interesting concept. I notice the low and high temp in Oslo is 16* and 27* with a 80 percent hum and 13 miles wind. You may know something about cold weather Oslohiker. Welcome to WB.
    KK4VKZ -SOTA-SUMMITS ON THE AIR-
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  8. #8
    Registered User swjohnsey's Avatar
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    Down = lighter, more compressable, more expensive, worthless when wet.

    Fleece = cheaper, works even when wet.

    I only use fleece on the trail.

  9. #9
    Registered User Duramax22's Avatar
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    i just picked up a marmot ares off backcountry for 130. its a pretty good jacket

  10. #10
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    Andrew Skurka has written about this topic in his book and on some of his blogs. You might want to read about it there to get some more input. His bottom line is that the lightest options is not always the best option, depending on your own situation. As a result he is a bigger fan of fleece than many in the UL circles.

    http://andrewskurka.com/2012/stupid-...ght-or-better/

  11. #11
    Registered User TNjed's Avatar
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    I use a marmot driclime windshirt for hiking when it's cold. You can later it or wear it alone. Then a puffy down for camp. I used synthetic before but those things are heavy and bulky but it is another option.
    can't never did

  12. #12
    Registered User TNjed's Avatar
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    I meant layer it.
    can't never did

  13. #13
    Garlic
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    My experience in winter storms on the AT and other trails taught me that to make down work, you have to be very careful. You cannot climb in down, for instance, or your sweat will make it useless in a scary short amount of time. If you hike without a puffy later (save the down for camping), as I did, you need stay well-fed and well-hydrated in order to keep moving, which is not always so easy and definitely not comfortable. I was on the edge without a fleece, but I made it work. I'm definitely with Skurka on the idea of stupid light, because I've been there.

    Another UL guru, Ray Jardine, is a fan of synthetic sleeping insulation. I disagree with that--I've had opposite experiences in many of the same conditions. My lesson there is that one person's experiences do not always translate to everyone else's. You should listen to the "experts", but really need to go out and learn for yourself.
    "Throw a loaf of bread and a pound of tea in an old sack and jump over the back fence." John Muir on expedition planning

  14. #14

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    Wool sweater

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by moytoy View Post
    Hmmm.... That's an interesting concept. I notice the low and high temp in Oslo is 16* and 27* with a 80 percent hum and 13 miles wind. You may know something about cold weather Oslohiker. Welcome to WB.
    Thank you.

    The key here is dry air or dry snow. If you are sweating along the trail and the snow is dry you could dry out your fleece jacket using the dry snow. You would, if fact get rid of most of the water. I did not find an instruction video on fleece, but it follows the same principle as drying out fur on game:


  16. #16
    Registered User TNjed's Avatar
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    Wool is pretty awesome.
    can't never did

  17. #17

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    if you're starting in mid or late March (19th) I doubt you have to worry about the cold weather gear. I'd skip the down considering all the spring rain on the AT. 200 weight fleece should be fine. Because you are only age 25 I expect you are very active. As a warning to you, a lot of people that I have met on the AT use the frog togs but have ripped them. You may want to consider some other UL rain shell if your the kind who likes to monkey around. I've never used frog togs so I'm only repeating what I've heard second hand.
    * Warning: I bite AND I do not play well with others! -hellkat-

  18. #18
    Getting out as much as I can..which is never enough. :) Mags's Avatar
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    Cold and wet conditions are better for fleece than any kind of puffy layer (when moving) IMO.
    Paul "Mags" Magnanti
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    The true harvest of my life is intangible...a little stardust caught,a portion of the rainbow I have clutched -Thoreau

  19. #19
    Registered User handlebar's Avatar
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    For cold weather hiking (15 degrees to about 35 degrees), I like a mid weight wool baselayer (Icebreaker 200) with a Marmot Dri-Clime Windshirt (it's really a jacket). It there's rain or drizzle, the Marmot Precip or other rain jacket tops that stuff. I also carry an insulating layer (lightweight down jacket,, in the west, or Montbell Thermawrap synthetic) to layer for camp or when I stop. I prefer to keep moving in such low temps to keep the body heat furnace going. When I stop, I usually quickly erect my shelter, a shaped tarp, and jump into my sleeping bag.
    Handlebar
    GA-ME 06; PCT 08; CDT 10,11,12; ALT 11; MSPA 12; CT 13; Sheltowee 14; AZT 14, 15; LT 15;FT 16;NCT-NY&PA 16; GET 17-18

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by garlic08 View Post
    If you hike without a puffy later (save the down for camping), as I did, you need stay well-fed and well-hydrated in order to keep moving, which is not always so easy and definitely not comfortable. I was on the edge without a fleece, but I made it work.
    You sort of implied this, but I just wanted to point out that in this situation leaving the fleece at home may be a false weight savings. If you are "on the edge" and need to hike hard to stay warm, it's likely you're burning more calories and therefore need to carry more food. That extra food is going to be a lot heavier than the fleece would have been.

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