Sleeping pad a necessity?

[em241]

Hello all--

I am currently carrying a 15 degree down sleeping bag (marmot helium) and currently also carrying the Neo Air X light sleeping pad. Considering my sleeping bag has some extra padding, has anyone tried foregoing a sleeping pad? Thoughts? Part of the problem is the Neo Air has proven difficult to fit neatly within the rest of my pack.

[Starchild]

I have when I first went backpacking a few times till one night on cold damp ground where I felt the heat just leaving my body to the ground. I bought a ridge rest the first chance I got after that. I don't want to ever risk that again.

[MuddyWaters]

If you cannot fit a pad the size of a water bottle in your pack, what the heck are you carrying?

Insulation is created by stagnant air. Insulating fibers trap air where it cannot convect (transfer heat by moving around), it can only conduct, and air is a poor conductor. Think wind. Moving air, cools you faster than stagnant air.

When you compress the insulation, as in laying on top of it, there is no air, and it doesnt insulate much.

You need the pad below maybe 50F or so. You might get by without one above that , if you can tolerate the hardness of ground/platform. Old bodies cannot.

[bigcranky]

You need a pad for warmth. Well, I do, anyway. The bottom of the bag gets compressed and there is no (or very little) insulation.

[RodentWhisperer]

As far as I know/have experienced, down sleeping bags get crushed flat under your body weight-- I've never felt "extra padding."

I suspect that since you're asking this question, your shelter is a tent. This would be irrelevant if you sleep in a hammock. (That, by the way, is one of the main appeals of hammocks, judging by what little I've read.)

This question has come up in previous threads, so you might want to do a quick search. Basically, the choice comes down to several factors, including your route (it's possible that a very heavy, forest floor of duff/moss would be enough padding), your tolerance for cold (a pad insulates you against cold ground), dampness (a pad also keeps you away from seeping/evaporating ground moisture), and firmness (let's face it, any/all ground isn't as padded as a pad), and your sleeping position (back sleepers would probably fare better than stomach sleepers and side sleepers).

And-- welcome to WB!

[flemdawg1]

I agree with MW, if you can't fit a tiny pad like the Xlite in your pack, you need to reevaluate your other choices. That Marmot bag doesn't take up much room, especially compressed. How much clothes are you carrying, how big is your tent, how big is your cooking gear, water filter, etc.? Or maybe you just need a bigger pack.

[garlic08]

Like others have noted, what extra padding in the sleeping bag are you talking about? My Helium doesn't have any padding, just feathers and nylon. Unless you can make a bed out of dry leaves every night, you should really carry a pad. If you hike on the AT and are thinking of sleeping in shelters, try sleeping on a plain plank floor before you go out without a pad. Some (young) people can do that--I can't any more. But I did find plenty of campsites in the hardwood forests on the AT where a pad was unnecessary, for sure.

...I suspect that since you're asking this question, your shelter is a tent. This would be irrelevant if you sleep in a hammock. (That, by the way, is one of the main appeals of hammocks, judging by what little I've read.)...

Cold-weather hammockers often add an underquilt, sometimes exceeding the weight and cost of a pad.

[Stir Fry]

Garlic: Cold-weather hammockers often add an underquilt, sometimes exceeding the weight and cost of a pad.

Well my underquilt does cost a lot more then a pad, but only weighs 19oz which is in line with the weight of a pad. I have a Hammock for comfort and ease of use. After you learn to stay warm in a Hammock, you will nover go back to the ground.

[TNjed]

I slept on the river once with no pad in the summer and froze my butt off. Last time with no pad. In the summer at low elevation I only use a pad and a sheet. That's just me

[jeffmeh]

Sleeping bag insulation compresses below you, whether on the ground or in a hammock. Yes, you can have very warm ambient air temperatures where you won't need it in a hammock. And yes, you could create an insulating layer out of forest duff, spruce boughs, etc. for the ground (hardly low impact), but you need some insulation because the earth is a good heat sink.

Not carrying an insulating pad (or perhaps an underquilt for a hammock) is pretty foolish under normal conditions.

[Franco]

Very simple ...Take your sleeping bag out into the yard or nearest park, lay down on it and see if you can sleep like that.
If someone else can or cannot is totally irrelevant to you

[mtnkngxt]

Comfort wise not necessary for me. Insulation wise it is crucial, so I don't leave home without one.

[poopsy]

Good question. If you don't need it, then don't take it. The only way to find out is to do it. I once went without for 3 months in the woods with temperatures to below freezing in a down bag. The only distinctive difference was the tent had a canvas floor. Maybe that was enough. Sleeping on rock outcrops was best. Forty years later and I would never do it now. Try it for yourself.

Poopsy

[Don H]

Are you rolling the pad up and putting it in a stuff sack? If the problem is fitting the Neo pad in your pack just fold it flat and lay it on top of your sleeping bag. That's how I pack, sleeping bag, Neo pad, clothes bag, food bag, in that order.

[Don H]

I would highly recommend taking it but hey, HYOH!

[Tinker]

Garlic: Cold-weather hammockers often add an underquilt, sometimes exceeding the weight and cost of a pad.

Well my underquilt does cost a lot more then a pad, but only weighs 19oz which is in line with the weight of a pad. I have a Hammock for comfort and ease of use. After you learn to stay warm in a Hammock, you will nover go back to the ground.

My underquilt is my sleeping bag. If you have a winter hammock without bug netting, you don't need an underquilt as long as your hammock can go through your sleeping bag.

[Leanthree]

People lived for many thousands of years without the neo air. Hard to believe, I know.

That being said, I love that I live in the neo air era. It makes site selection so much easier.

[Feral Bill]

People lived for many thousands of years without the neo air. Hard to believe, I know.

That being said, I love that I live in the neo air era. It makes site selection so much easier.

People made pads from vegetation, furs, etc. Hardly LNT, and took time and skills. IMO at least a CCF pad is needed in almost every instance.

[SCRUB HIKER]

Tried it once, in favorable conditions. The night temperature was in the 50s, I had a soft, leafy, pinestrawy layer beneath me, and I was in a tent. I was in a 20-degree sleeping bag. The only thing wrong with the picture was that I didn't have a pad. I was miserable and got about 2 hours of sleep the whole night. It was uncomfortable and I was pretty cold. I'm never going pad-less again. But if you can pull it off, more power to you.

[Bronk]

Before you set up your tent, pile leaves on the spot where you are going to set it up...that will provide some insulation if you don't have a pad. Problem is, what if you are camping in a spot where you can't find any leaves? A lot of campsites look like they have been raked because every last bit of everything burnable ends up in the firepit.