Question for Military hikers

[fredmugs]

Can you people read? The man said Special Forces. As a formed jarhead myself what I did pales in comparison to what Spec Ops people do regardless of branch of service (I support SOCOM in my civilian job and I was shocked that the airforce had a Spec Op program but they do). My daughter is considering Navy EOD right now and I took her to the EOD shop on my base and they go through some hard core stuff.

Personally I would recommend NOT hiking the trail because none of that is going to prepare you for whatever Spec Ops training you are going to have.

[rickb]

Personally I would recommend NOT hiking the trail because none of that is going to prepare you for whatever Spec Ops training you are going to have.

I can't speak to that, but hiking the Trail can give you a unique opportunity to think about stuff, choices to be made, and one's place in this world. Not a bad thing for anyone, IMHO.

[swjohnsey]

If you plan to go into special forces (generic) have a Plan B because most folks don't make it. The first time I say the Appalachian Trail I was in Ranger School.

[Bill Strebler]

Not only do most not make it, pararescue training used to have a high mortality rate that was interfering with recruitment. For instance, getting dropped out in the ocean several miles from where you are supposed to swim and navigate, going through underwater obstacles in the dark, plus fun things like giving yourself stitches and IVs and running miles with a weighted dummy. I don't know about current mortality rates but I know a major emphasis was made in restructuring the schools for safety. As far as I know every special operations group has commissioned officers, so that is not a problem.

Let me emphasize again my earlier point- hiking the AT may help or hurt, so use your own judgment. If you pursue SPECOPS training you may actually lose significant muscle mass at times. You don't want to be too thin or too lean, and you certainly don't want to incur long-term injury. Proper diet will be extremely important on the trail. If pararescue interests you but the washout rate without really anything to show for it concerns you, I would recommend you look at being an army special forces medic. If you don't make it all the way through you can still be, for instance, an airborne medic. After that air assault school would be good to have. Even if you don't complete the full path that would translate very well into a high paying civilian job, such as helicopter pararescue.

[Camel2012]

Kind of off topic, but a buddy of mine who is a doctor, wanted to do spec ops, but the only slots he could fill was the team medic. He joined the seals and spent 6 months only operating the decompression chamber on a sub. After that he came back to an army sf unit where he actually got to work on ops. Being a medic, may not be what you are looking for, and seems the medics are the first to get attached to other units when needed. Just something to think about.

Disclaimer: i was in the military for 14 years, but never a spec ops unit. I'm just going by things i have heard from people i know that have been. YMMV

[Pedaling Fool]

I’m retired military, although not Special Forces, but I’m somewhat familiar with their training. Personally, I don’t see how a thru-hike can help if one was to go straight from a hike into training, but I do see how it can hurt. Thru-hikes are great for establishing an aerobic base, but if you plan on going into SF training, you really should already have an aerobic base set – and then some...

How it can hurt, because TH is basically a specialty, which ignores all other physical aspects, such as upper body strength and to some extent lower body strength. Also, SF training very much forces one to go anaerobic, which isn’t really done much during a TH, at least once you get your legs. So while you may have a great cardio capacity, that doesn’t mean you have great ability to go into the “red zone” and maintain that effort.

The only way I can see it helping is if you use your TH as a springboard to kick off a workout regimen once your TH is completed, simply because of the aerobic base you developed; but that would require time after the hike. SF guys are some of the fittest guys, but you don’t see those guys winning marathons or other endurance events, because they are NOT specialists, rather they are so well versed in what they can do. If winning wars required record-breaking marathon runners, than they would be record breakers, but winning wars require a multitude of skills.

[JAK]

I was a civilian in uniform for awhile. Basic training was 3 months in British Columbia. October - February back in 1983. I had already done some hiking and camping and playing in the woods but that sealed the deal for sure. Wasn't much going on back then so I got out after a short stay. I already had my engineering degree when I went in, thus the term civy in uniform. Had the privilege of meeting alot of 'real' soldiers and sailors and airmen along the way though. Left a very positive impression. Served some in the Reserves later before getting married. More fun time in the woods of New Brunswick. Saw Alaska and Japan and the Phillipines and the west coast of USA. Good times. My hat goes off and my heart goes out to the men and women serving in these times though. Hope its not all bad. Wish they had more opportunity to come back home too also. My life's been great. No complaints. Parents and Grandparents lived in much tougher times. Don't know how some of us can be lucky and others not so lucky just because of when and where we are born. Paying it forward with the daughter now. What else to do?

[Feral Bill]

I can't speak to that, but hiking the Trail can give you a unique opportunity to think about stuff, choices to be made, and one's place in this world. Not a bad thing for anyone, IMHO.

In fact, do your hike before joining up. You might think very differently when you're done.

[leaftye]

Let me clarify- in the early days of powered flight, electric lights, the wheel and such when I was in the Air Force ENLISTED jobs could be "guaranteed" but not officers' jobs. There has been plenty of time for that horribly annoying policy to have changed, and I hope it has. It still seemed fairly frequent, however, and I hear it still goes on, that someone waits an extended time for a "guaranteed" enlisted job and it is not available, and the person has options presented such as contract change for another job, waiting, or not going in at all. I know this has happened with other branches as well, but the wait for the Air Force seems to be particularly long on average. The enlistment contract is full of fine print that many people don't pay a lot of attention to.

The Air Force careers page on that link appears to be dealing, at least largely, with enlisted-specific information. My point was that with a bachelor's degree it would definitely be worth looking at getting a commission rather than going in as enlisted. I strongly recommend "verifying" information with branch-appropriate recruiters, although some are more knowledgeable- and honest than others. My Air Force recruiter still owes me a steak dinner and was a marine before becoming an Air Force recruiter. My other recruiters seemed more knowledgeable involving their own branches but not others. When dealing with a recruiter, remember Ronald Reagan's words regarding dealing with the Soviet Union- "trust but verify."

It is for enlisted, and at least as of 10 years ago it was still in effect. I haven't heard of the AF being manipulative with this. Not one case. I don't know if that's the case with commissions. I didn't care. Didn't ask.

Once you get to tech school, it may being to make sense why there can be a long wait. Some trades don't have classes starting every week, so of course there's going to be some wait in the DEP or airmen would be twiddling their thumbs after basic while waiting for the next tech school class to start. I never talked with any of the pararescue students that were training next door to my office, but I got the impression that they didn't have overlapping classes. That'd mean the wait in the DEP would be in increments as long as it took for the class next door to finish training there. In any case, the wait is what it is. Being presented alternatives might be an issue for the weak willed though. I would prefer if recruiters could weed those folks out into inconsequential jobs.

I do agree that this guy should consider going in as an officer, but plenty of people with degrees go enlisted. About half of the 20+ airmen under my direct supervision and training came in with 4 year degrees. They had all sorts of reasons for going enlisted.

I also agree that some recruiters are full of crap. When I broke it off with my first recruiter, I left his office shouting at him for being lazy and/or telling me lies. That was back when information was harder to find, and the web was still still in its infancy. There's no excuse nowadays for not knowing exactly what to expect.

[Donde]

If your end goal is CIA, forget the AF neither CCT nor rescue will lead to CIA SAD. Navy , USMC or Army can work.
If you go Army, go to the 75th for a few years, till your ready for SF. After you have some rank (E7 SFC, or seinor O3) look into joining the Asymetric Warfare team. AWG and SF is a great track for CIA. This of course assuming success which is unlikely. Remember though just cause you fail once does not mean your done, most guys go through selection a few times before they get it.

[Bill Strebler]

I haven't heard of the AF being manipulative with this. Not one case. I don't know if that's the case with commissions.

As you stated, there are good reasons for delays in training. I have not run across manipulative behavior in this specific area- getting people into training on specific dates- but with all the people in every AFSC/ MOS or what have you being trained every year, and the classes being scheduled outside of their budgeting range for appropriated funds, with little concrete knowledge of future manpower needs, they have to give it their best estimate. Sometimes it is more feasible to cut a class and offer retention bonuses or something like that. This can be a great burden on the person waiting to enter training that has to make a living. If you tell them that's your situation and you may have to go elsewhere they tend to be able to pull another job out of thin air a high percentage of the time. The Air Force was able to offer me a contract change and put me in immediately. The army was not in my case, but sometimes they can. If you go in looking for SPECOPS specifically I expect that is less likely to be a possibility. Since pararescue is a specialized course from the start they have, in the past as far as I am familiar, not done the overlapping classes as they do, for instance, with airborne school.

One pararescue story that is relevant to this discussion- I had an instructor that achieved a fairly high enlisted rank as a pararescue instructor- I can't remember what exactly- and he later got a commission and was stationed at the Pentagon as a major (administrative, mind you- some people are OK with that, some not) on 9/11. He was in the next wing I believe from the one that was hit and was able to put his specialized experience to use. His wings were still prominent on his uniform, and he seemed to indicate that pararescue was a great career boost, as opposed to an admin officer fresh out of college.

[prain4u]

Let us not forget that there is the looming potential for significant military budget cuts and other major changes to the military. Plus, the wars are winding down and women are being allowed into combat positions. Thus, as one tries to figure out a military career path----- "what was" and "what is" probably will bear very little resemblance to "what will be" even 12-24 months from now. It is a very unpredictable time for the military.

[Ghostrider]

If you want to prepare for para-rescue, you need to get used to running and... swimming. IF you are serious about completing and graduating pararescue, then you need to eat sleep and breathe swimming. You're going to fukking HATE the water by the 2nd week.

You need to first pass the Physical Ability and Stamina Test: http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/airfo...a/parapast.htm

The PAST test is rigorous and only ENTRY to what is to come once accepted into the program. If you're going into the USAF thinking that training is less strenuous than other branches and can achieve "special forces" label... you are sadly mistaking. Pararescue fukking sucks a$$.

Here's what I suggest:

1. You need to start running 3-5 miles per day and quickly. You need to run 3 miles in about 21 minutes.. just for entry into pararescuce training.

2. You need to be able to swim a minimum of 500 meters in under 11 minutes (comfortably)

3. ...More importantly, I would start literally hanging out in either the deep end of a pool or a lake without any any flotation device and fully clothed... for a few hours at a time. You need to be able to tread in deep water for a couple hours at a time without coming to rest. I suggest doing this every day. When autumn hits, that would be a good time to start when the water is still cold enough.

*It would be advisable to do all of this to the brink of becoming hypothermic, get your body used to it.

*on another note, during actual training, if you pass out and are unable to complete any activity (not due to giving up) but simply because you push your body so far to the point of failure, then they will kick you out of the program. you have no control over this, and nothing to be ashamed of if it does happen.... Better to find out your body's limits before hand...

*I would suggest pushing your body to the point of failure (at least once) before beginning pararescue training. In other words, You should swim to the point of passing out (in water).. do this while in the presence of someone capable of reviving you and providing CPR.

*This stuff actually (and probably will happen) during training.

*airforce "special forces" training fukkin sucks and isnt anything like you think it is.


*As for hiking the AT as training for pararescue or any other branch's special forces training, you are pi$$ing up a rope. It is better to do the above stuff that I suggested. Hiking the AT is not going to help you AT ALL...You need to spend A LOT of time in cold water. You need to spend LOTS of time treading, and swimming on top and under water. Fully clothed and without floatation devices.

[Furlough]

If your end goal is CIA, forget the AF neither CCT nor rescue will lead to CIA SAD. Navy , USMC or Army can work.
If you go Army, go to the 75th for a few years, till your ready for SF. After you have some rank (E7 SFC, or seinor O3) look into joining the Asymetric Warfare team. AWG and SF is a great track for CIA. This of course assuming success which is unlikely. Remember though just cause you fail once does not mean your done, most guys go through selection a few times before they get it.

Let us not forget that there is the looming potential for significant military budget cuts and other major changes to the military. Plus, the wars are winding down and women are being allowed into combat positions. Thus, as one tries to figure out a military career path----- "what was" and "what is" probably will bear very little resemblance to "what will be" even 12-24 months from now. It is a very unpredictable time for the military.

We moved AWG under TRADOC. We currently know the Army End Strength will go down from 547.4K to 490K as per the Pres. Budget. Not saying AWG will be cut, but we will have to look hard across our force structure to determine what we can resource. The new growth industry is Cyber. To pay that bill we will have to reduce something else. As I stated earllier it may be worthwhile to apply direct to CIA and forego the military route.

[Pedaling Fool]

Plus, the wars are winding down ...

That doese seem to be the conventional wisdom...makes me laugh...

[Thirsty DPD]

3-5 months backpacking can only help your military experience. You'll have a chance to learn some things about yourself that can come in handy, like taking good care of yourself in less then ideal conditions..... Tip; take care of your feet, they're more than just transportation. God's speed.

Phoenix, any Special Ops trng will be months down the road from your Basic trng. I retired while working in my secondary MOS 8511, from Parris Island. Your 3-5 mos on the trail will enhance your Basic trng experience. Furthermore, any Spec Ops trng, and the more sensitive your clearance, will enhance your desirability for employment with the CIA or one of its contractors. Learn and take care of your body, its strengths & weaknesses, its your best weapon. You have a bright, exciting future ahead.

[Bill Strebler]

Ghostrider's post about swimming is extremely important. I remember now training with a (female) Olympic hopeful and being, I thought, quite a swimmer, but I was worried about passing the PAST test as far as speed just a few months later. I mean, I worked at it until I could swim an Olympic size pool end to end without a breath, starting to black out just before finally making it. You need to be comfortable in the water, not panicking under any circumstances, even if you are about to drown. If you practice, WITH APPROPRIATE SAFETY MEASURES- and I don't mean just some guy keeping an eye on you- you can improve in that area. Holding your breath under water is no comparison to swimming for your life. You use much more oxygen with hard swimming. Lots of people do well, get well into the course, and just black out under water, and that's it. They know they need to push themselves hard to make it, and they do- then they black out and that's it. It's hard to tell where the line is sometimes. Personally I think someone that has the guts to push themselves until they pass out, and I don't mean passing out because they just can't cut it, they should get some remedial training. That is a skill that can be developed, and a lot of good men and a lot of good tax dollars have been thrown away by this process.

One point I disagree on- I stand by my earlier statement, I believe it would depend on the person if the AT would be a help before entering training. I do believe most would benefit from some amount of hiking the AT, but I do not believe very many would benefit from a thru-hike, unless they take their time and watch their diet, or maybe if the person was seriously overweight. Some of the most athletic people end up not making it, and if they do they will likely lose serious muscle mass, after possibly adding some before that. On that note, I would suggest you practice eating a LOT of food in 30 seconds as well. I think that might have been mentioned earlier.

[Derek81pci]

Bootcamp is 99% metal. Don't worry about it. I'm a Marine and we have the longest hardest bootcamp. I went in at age 27, cancer survivor, and with less than impressive physical conditioning (2 max pull ups, like 75 crunches in 2 minutes, and ran my mile ad a half in a very sad 11 minutes). I believe that a hike could only help with conditioning.

[hikestofish]

I studied Middle East Studies (emphasis on Arabic) and doubled up with Criminlogy. (My end goal is the CIA)... I am finishing up at the University of Utah. My fear dates back to my Appalachian Thru-Hike where I went from a solid 225 to a stick (a muscular stick, but a stick nonetheless) and I went from being able to dunk a basketball violently to being able to jump about 15 inches after my thru-hike (my quick-twitch muscle was all but dead)

Like many have said... it does come back... but I have a fear I will get into great shape prepping for hitting that top 1% of all the PT junk (push ups, pull ups, sit ups, running, etc) and then after my hike be somewhat emaciated.

I am young... totally get it... maybe I just stress too much.

From all y'all with experience (and I am very grateful for all of you... you advice/services) what would you head into with an end goal of the CIA... I got a 98 on the ASVAB and will be a college graduate with a 4.0 in Arabic. Should I take a linguist route or shoot for some sort of SF? I am open to all opinions, advice, or whatever you got.

Many thanks... this is all very very very helpful!

Doing a thru-hike will destroy whatever muscle mass you already have. You will come out of it very lean but not nearly as strong as you were before that. If you want to go into some kind of SOF you need to start doing Crossfit or Sealfit. My squad (I'm in an Airborne Infantry battalion in the Army) does either Crossfit or Sealfit 3 days a week for PT and we have the highest APFT average in my battalion (295 average without calculating scores on the extended scale). Someone in SOF is a very different type of athlete than almost any other. You have to have a large amount of upper body and lower body strength (emphasis on back and core), you need to be able to carry 120+ lbs on your back while climbing a mountain in Afghanistan (not easy, I've done it while setting in a sniper overwatch position), you need to be able to pick your buddy up and throw him on your back and run with him, you have to be able to run with body armor and all of the bull***** that goes along with that. Think that 7 pound M4 is light? Wait until you have been running to cover, while wearing 60 lbs of kit and you're 10,000 feet ASL...it's not as light as you once though it was. I like to describe this as a "power athlete". You have to have a large amount of strength but also the cardiopulmonary system of a thoroughbred. Medics (PJ's are just really specialized medics) carry even more ****. They carry a fighting load plus their aid bag with which they can treat and stabilize a patient who is on death's doorstep...and on top of that they may have to carry/ drag their patient to cover so they can treat him...all while they are being shot at.

If you want to be a PJ then go for it. I got the chance to work with them while I was downrange and I thought they were some badass dudes. Forget what your others are saying about being super lean and that being ok. You need the muscle, especially when you start jumping out of airplanes. I'm 5'11" and I weight 195 lbs, I have 10% body fat and I have never been injured on a jump cause my muscle mass absorbs the shock and not my joints. The super skinny guys are normally the ones that get injured...or the really fat ones.

[PD230SOI]

I am not 100% sure where to post this or how to word this, but I am a few months away from graduating college, and am planning to join the military sometime this fall/winter.

I am playing one last hoorah with a thru-hike that I have yet to determine. My question is will a thru-hike bust my body up and set me up for a rough go in basic and training beyond basic? I am shooting for a Special Forces position in the military, most likely Para-rescue in the Air Force. I am currently working myself into that kind of shape... will hiking for 3-5 months totally crush that?

In my past thru-hikes I have lost significant weight and muscle mass, which wasn't a problem back then, but gearing up for the military weeks after my hike could potentially be a problem? Yes/no?

Any advice? Eat more? Push ups, pull ups, sit ups on the trail? Any information would be greatly appreciated... the fear of hindering my chances of being selected and in great shape for basic is holding me back from committing to a hike.

Looking back at the original post I have this to add....

Special Operations Forces is quite a ways down stream from your initial entry into the military. Whatever damage you have done to your body will either have healed or will have DSQ you for the military or SOF. However the biggest change will be in your head and your spirit. Those changes are what will stay with you and be more useful.

Each service has its own component within USSOCOM. Those components provide different capabilities to the Component Commander. What type of person you are and what you like to do will drive where you should apply. For example the US Army has several different Special Operations Forces within its structure, some are Unconventional Warfare folks (US Army Special Forces - by, with, and thru the indg) and some are Direct Action (75th RgR Rgt - elite shock infanty). The UW skill set and the DA skill sets often draw different types of people although some overlap does occur.

The other Services provide other capabilities with some overlap here and there (i.e TF 160 vice AFSOC).

What is the same across all services and skill sets is the need for a complete 100% spirit of "Never Quit". That comes from inside of you, not provided by your squadies, or your mom's cooking, but what you have developed as you have grown up.

I would say do the trail, think about what you love in life, and press on from there.

Good Luck