!!!Attention thru- hikers and anyone else going into GSMNP after Feb 13!!!

[Dash]

Well i'm starting feb. 1st and will just have to get the miles behind me............ see ya Mr Ranger.

[Slo-go'en]

Scratch my previous comment (#16) - you do have to guesstimate your ETA to the park. You can buy the permit up to 30 days before your ETA date.

If at all possible, print your ticket with a laser printer. Ink jet ink runs when wet, so you'd have to take pains to keep it dry. Although, smired ink might work to your advantage...

Humm, say if for some reason when you go to get your permit all the shelters are full? Does that mean you can't get a permit at all? Hopefully, the system will have a "thru-hiker" option which gives more flexability, since unless they changed the rules, your allowed to tent if there is a full shelter. They had to have addressed that issue.

[SGT Rock]

It's a little after 3am and I'm checking in before heading off to work.

Hopefully, some hiker services will come up with solutions.

wireless printer that a smart phone can print to would be all it takes.

Heck they could put one at that dam gift shop.

Probably too complicated for them.

That is true. That also brings up something I thought of last night as I was drifting off to sleep: most hiker service places that have public computers don't have a printer for those computers. Up till now it hasn't been an issue at all. So if you wait until you get on the trail there is a chance that you may find a computer in ever town, but not a printer.

Most people take 2 to 3 weeks to get to GSMNP from Springer. Seeing they give you 30 days, buying a permit just before you head out should work. If it takes you more then 30 days to cover 165 miles, you got bigger problems then loosing 20 bucks.

The new fees are just one more reason I perfer the National Forest, the land of many abuses.

Your right on the time frame. Even if you take about twice as long as the normal person, if you have scheduled your entry into the park two weeks out from your start date and you take four weeks, that still leaves you lots of time to get there and get through. Luckily GSMNP is relativity early in a hike. If you have never hiked a long distance hike before it may seem a long way off, but once you do it it will seem pretty quick.

The National Forests are a great place to hike.

Great. I haven't hiked with weight since I was 28 (twice that age now) and I'm supposed to KNOW how far I'm gonna get each day up and down mountains in a huge State Park.......after living in Utterly Flatsville Florida for 20 years........the fee doesn't bother me all that much, but the nitpicking does. I just want to hike my hike, that's all.

Agreed. One reason I am continuing to push to hopefully get the rules tweaked. If the original plan were implemented it would have been a little easier.

I hate the GSMNP so the only time I hike there is on a thru or up to the Mt LeConte Lodge. And its been years since I've done that.

The paper permit requirement is consistent with what Laurie P of the ATC told us a week ago. The ATC has recommended that thru hikers print out their permits just before they leave home to start their hike.

The Park is only going to get more annoying to hike in. I foresee the back country use going down. They (the people at GSMNP implementing this) think it will stay about the same. I could get into how even this estimate creates a paradox in the fee plan that will likely end up costing the park more money than it is going to make, but this isn't the thread for that. Anyhow what Laurie said about a week ago, get a permit before you leave home is the best option I can see.

If you are a thru hiker you can decide THAT DAY what shelter you want to stay at. If you are a section hiker, yes, you have to figure out how far you're gonna hike each day. Same as every other section hiker. If you don't like the rules do what I do -- hike somewhere else.

Yes, the thru-hiker will only need to forecast an entry date to the park which he/she will not be held to. The section hiker will need reservations. But the on-line system will actually show you how many spaces are available at each location as you are making them.

Well i'm starting feb. 1st and will just have to get the miles behind me............ see ya Mr Ranger.

You will have to hoof it to be through the park before the 13th. Unfortunately the system will also not be available before the 13th either, so you are going to be in a zone where you could foreseeable enter the park before you can make a permit, but be in the park when you do need one. I highly doubt anyone will be checking at that point yet though. My guess is if you have the old permit with an entry date prior to Feb 13 you should be fine.

Scratch my previous comment (#16) - you do have to guesstimate your ETA to the park. You can buy the permit up to 30 days before your ETA date.

If at all possible, print your ticket with a laser printer. Ink jet ink runs when wet, so you'd have to take pains to keep it dry. Although, smired ink might work to your advantage...

Humm, say if for some reason when you go to get your permit all the shelters are full? Does that mean you can't get a permit at all? Hopefully, the system will have a "thru-hiker" option which gives more flexability, since unless they changed the rules, your allowed to tent if there is a full shelter. They had to have addressed that issue.

The rules for thru-hikers tenting at full shelters will remain in place. I don't know if they are going to reserve three spots at each shelter during thru-hiker season, but when the system goes on-line the 13th it will be easy to check and see if they are.

Section hikers will need to know where they plan to be each night.

And a final note, as far as I know, the $20 is non-refundable. So if you bail for whatever reason before you enter the park, your forfeit the $20. On a cynical note, I believe the rush to get the plan in place at this time of year was to make sure they got as many thru-hikers as they could. Lets face it, this is going to be like Christmas shopping season is to retailers. They get 2,000 aspiring thu hikers to give up money before they even start their hike so it gets them good bump in revenue to start the year. The system makes the most reasonable option to get your permit before you even start hiking, so that means even people who are likely to bail out before the Smokies will still have paid a non-refundable fee. If they made it convenient to wait to pay until you got close to the park, that could mean about 30% less (a made up percentage) fees from thru-hikers. They may not make all their funds of thru-hikers, but it will be a chunk.

[Sly]

I don't understand how the GSMNP think that a thru-hiker would have access to a computer/printer along the way? Why can't they just print a receipt or carbon copy that sucker at the entrance? I've never been hiking through there, but with my upcoming thru-hike February 25th, it sure throws a new wrinkle on my plans. Thanks for the info.

There's probably easy access to a dozen or more computers between Springer and the GSMNP, not to mention applying from home right before you leave for the trail. These are issues PCT and CDT hikers have been dealing with for years.

[Sly]

Trail angels with laptops and printers this year.....lol

How about enterprising people with laptops and printers for a fee?

[OzJacko]

Thanks for the info Sarge and I will look at getting one well before GSMNP but am I wrong in thinking this is the kind of issue where the ATC should be liaising at upper level of National Parks Service to have a sensible approach available for thru hikers.
It is clearly an issue of awkwardness for a hiker to comply with, and if they expect to have everyone pay with a minimum of fuss they shouldn't make the process anything but simple.

[Sly]

It is clearly an issue of awkwardness for a hiker to comply with, and if they expect to have everyone pay with a minimum of fuss they shouldn't make the process anything but simple.

For a thru-hiker, it really couldn't be simpler. You get online or on the phone 30 days before your approximate park entry date, pay them $20, print out or provide an address for the permit. Stash permit in ziploc for safe keeping. Done.

[max patch]

Thanks for the info Sarge and I will look at getting one well before GSMNP but am I wrong in thinking this is the kind of issue where the ATC should be liaising at upper level of National Parks Service to have a sensible approach available for thru hikers.
It is clearly an issue of awkwardness for a hiker to comply with, and if they expect to have everyone pay with a minimum of fuss they shouldn't make the process anything but simple.

They have. They have recommended to thru hikers how to handle this. The only practical change of all this to a thru hiker is they have to pay $20 (or less) and spend 5 minutes at home printing out a piece of paper.

[4Bears]

I wonder if in this modern age, if it is possible to download the paid permit to ones smart phone and hold it there?? That type action is used all the time, would allow a hiker to pay only a day or two before they enter the park, seems like an easy sollution. Then again I may be underthinking all this since we are dealing with an agency of the federal government.

[Pedaling Fool]

I wonder if in this modern age, if it is possible to download the paid permit to ones smart phone and hold it there?? That type action is used all the time, would allow a hiker to pay only a day or two before they enter the park, seems like an easy sollution. Then again I may be underthinking all this since we are dealing with an agency of the federal government.

See, another case that almost forces one to carry a minimum type of technology. I don't even own a smart phone. You can already hear people say that if you don't carry a phone in the woods, that you're irresponsible.

The times are a changin'...

[ChinMusic]

I wonder if in this modern age, if it is possible to download the paid permit to ones smart phone and hold it there?? That type action is used all the time, would allow a hiker to pay only a day or two before they enter the park, seems like an easy sollution. Then again I may be underthinking all this since we are dealing with an agency of the federal government.

I don't see why that couldn't be an option to prove your payment. My guess is that the Smokies haven't thought of it.

If one chooses to not carry a smartphone they could still have the printed paper.

[Pedaling Fool]

See, another case that almost forces one to carry a minimum type of technology. I don't even own a smart phone. You can already hear people say that if you don't carry a phone in the woods, that you're irresponsible.

The times are a changin'...

If one chooses to not carry a smartphone they could still have the printed paper.

I know that's an option, but my point is that you can see the change happening, not just with this system, but because they are so ubiquitous it seems to becoming conventional wisdom that they're needed. I just like watching the process of evolution.

[Sailor (The other one)]

I though I heard this was just walkin'.

[4Bears]

See, another case that almost forces one to carry a minimum type of technology. I don't even own a smart phone. You can already hear people say that if you don't carry a phone in the woods, that you're irresponsible.

The times are a changin'...

WHOA!!!! John folks were looking for a sollution I tossed an idea into the fire, didn't think threw gas on it. No one has to carry any technology with them. It was an idea to solve a problem not a mandate. At one time a compass was considered technology, even magic. Just print it out and carry in a baggie if you want. I wasn't looking to start a "techno-war", just trying to help.

[Ewker]

wonder how many folks will stealth camp from now on

[jbwood5]

I know that's an option, but my point is that you can see the change happening, not just with this system, but because they are so ubiquitous it seems to becoming conventional wisdom that they're needed. I just like watching the process of evolution.

I don't own one either and don't intend to buy one (hopefully in my lifetime).

Wouldn't it make more sense for the patrol ranger to have the smart phone already downloaded with the names of the people who called in for permits (and where they propose to stay)? It would take a huge burden off the hikers. For example, I currently don't have a printer (I believe in paperless transactions), so I'll have to try and find a business (Mountain Crossings, NOC, or Fontana Village) that can print a reservation out for me.

[max patch]

For example, I currently don't have a printer (I believe in paperless transactions), so I'll have to try and find a business (Mountain Crossings, NOC, or Fontana Village) that can print a reservation out for me.

Go to your public library. They'll probably charge you a dime.

[joe cool]

sgt Rock you rock thank you for the info ypu are a good person to help us nuwebies out T H A N K YOU

[jbwood5]

Go to your public library. They'll probably charge you a dime.

I'm sure I can come up with a paper copy somewhere. The NPS just spent a ton of money on reservation software and another bunch of money beta testing it. You'd think it would be a minor deal to add an application to download the data to an officer supplied smartphone. That part would be very cheap in comparison and would solve the problem of illegible hiker paper permits carried for a couple of weeks. Plus.. they could issue electronic violations right on the spot, call in for emergencies, and even video the illegal stealth campers... lol

[Rasty]

Go to your public library. They'll probably charge you a dime.

I'm sure I can come up with a paper copy somewhere. The NPS just spent a ton of money on reservation software and another bunch of money beta testing it. You'd think it would be a minor deal to add an application to download the data to an officer supplied smartphone. That part would be very cheap in comparison and would solve the problem of illegible hiker paper permits carried for a couple of weeks. Plus.. they could issue electronic violations right on the spot, call in for emergencies, and even video the illegal stealth campers... lol

I think they use Blackberries so funtional apps might be a problem.